• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Is this eBay buyer just trolling me or am I being unreasonable?
0

65 posts in this topic

OK, so a buyer bought two CGC books for under $30 (I was having a bargain sale), and this dialogue took place over the course of a couple days.

I don't know if 1) this guy is trolling me or 2) I'm being unreasonable in his request or 3) I'm justified in being a little angry by the time the conversation ends. I've put in BOLD font the message that made me start to think if this guy was serious or not.

I need you (an impartial audience) to tell me what you think.

I appreciate the comments

------------------------------------------------------

July 15
ME: 
Just a heads up. All payments received by tonight will mean your books will ship out on Tuesday morning.

Payments received after that date will ship out Friday morning.

July 15
BUYER: 
Thank you for the heads up.
I did want to ask 1 thing... I am interested in bidding on more comics and wanted to know if you would be listing some so that I can take advantage of combined shipping.
Regards

July 17
ME:
I won’t be posting any more books for at least a couple more weeks. But most of the books I will be posting are duplicates of what I sold this past week.

July 17
BUYER:
There are actually quite a few that I did not get a chance to bid on because so I would be more then happy to wait...

All the comics seem to end at the same time and I did try to jump from listing to listing to bid but just no time.

When you do list the comics, would you be able to perhaps list them at least a minute or so apart?

Regards

July 17
ME:
Thank you for your comments but I would prefer not waiting a couple weeks for payment. 

As for spacing out the auctions if I ever sell this many at once again I will probably do as you suggested.

July 17
BUYER:
I would not have an issue making the payment if you need the money as you insist... I would just ask if you could hold off on shipping so I can bid on additional listings when you do post and take advantage of combined shipping?

July 17
ME:
I'll send you a list of books that I have left. It's not very many -- it includes the books that nobody bid on in my last auction and a few others that I had duplicates of (Doomsday Clock Lenticular, Warlord of Mars Dejah Thoris, and some Betty & Veronica variants)

July 17
ME:
So these are the only ones I have left:

Betty & Veronica #1 Comix Connection Variant
Betty & Veronica #3 Cover C
Harley Quinn #29 Variant (Frank Cho)
Nina and Ariel nn
Redneck #1 25th Anniversary Image Edition
Sinestro #16
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover A
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover B
Tank Girl: Tank Girl Gold #2
Ultimates 2 #100 Jack Kirby Variant

July 18:
BUYER:
Would you happen to have a picture of all the graded comics you have left because I am having a bit of a tough time remembering some or even looking them up to view the cover?

Regardless I would be interested in bidding on these when you choose to list them.

And like I said, I have no issue with making the payment... just would ask if you could hold off on shipping to take advantage of combined shipping.

July 18:
ME:
For pictures you can just look at my completed auctions. They are all listed there.

July 19:
BUYER:
I see you opened unpaid cases for the comics I won... what is the deal with that?

I have been quite clear and direct from the start - I told you about my interest in bidding on the the additional comics but you left me with no options or direction except for telling me what comics you have.

With all do respect, I do not like playing games or being jerked around.

July 19:
ME:
First of all, you must not have been around eBay for very long, because eBay automatically opens unpaid bidder cases after payment hasn't been made over the course of several days.

I told you where you could find pictures of the books (in my previously listed auctions) but you haven't responded. 

If anyone is being jerked around its me.

July 19:
BUYER:
I have told you MULTIPLE times at this point, that I was interested in your "available comics".
What exactly did you not understand about that?

I responded 2 days ago regarding payment and delaying shipping with no response from you regarding that.
You have been vague for no reason.

Since you assume I do not know how eBay works, let me enlighten you.
You may very well have chosen to have eBay turn on the unpaid case - but unpaid cases are only turned on when the seller requests or agrees to have automatic unpaid cases open in a certain amount of days. Not eBay!
Even then, a case can be easily turned off.
So like I said... you opened up the cases, even if you continue to blame eBay.

And how in any way have you been jerked around lol

July 19:
ME:
This dialogue has obviously become hostile and I did not intend for that to take place.

I did not open an unpaid items case. eBay did that on their own. If there is some setting that I must change in order for that not to take place, it really isn't worth my time finding it. It's a good measure (in my opinion) taken by eBay to make sure sellers get paid for their auctions.

Yes, you have told me you are interested in my other comics. And I told you several days ago if you look at my completed auctions you could see the pictures I have available. I'm not interested in duplicating my effort and sending you another batch of pictures of the same identical books.

At this point, you can 1) pay for the books or 2) request an order cancellation.

But I don't care to keep engaging in correspondence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

he is being unreasonable.  There are too many things that can go wrong with "I'll pay for all the books now that i plan to buy".  what if someone else snaps them up?  what if he changes his mind?  How can you pay more for books than you bought them for on ebay?  It just seems like trying to accommodate him would be sticking your hands in a buzz saw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, wombat said:

You should have just said no up front. You don't hold books for that long (paid or not) and ended it. 

yes saying "no I am sorry but I cannot do that I have my ebay set to automatically open unpaid item case after 3 days and I am not amenable to changing that" should have done the trick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, kav said:

he is being unreasonable.  There are too many things that can go wrong with "I'll pay for all the books now that i plan to buy".  what if someone else snaps them up?  what if he changes his mind?  How can you pay more for books than you bought them for on ebay?  It just seems like trying to accommodate him would be sticking your hands in a buzz saw.

This.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, kav said:

yes saying "no I am sorry but I cannot do that I have my ebay set to automatically open unpaid item case after 3 days and I am not amenable to changing that" should have done the trick.

Whether or not a seller has an unpaid assistant set up to automatically file unpaid item cases after a set time, doesn't ebay start sending out those "please pay your seller" notices automatically after 24 or 48 hours?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, NamesJay said:

OK, so a buyer bought two CGC books for under $30 (I was having a bargain sale), and this dialogue took place over the course of a couple days.

I don't know if 1) this guy is trolling me or 2) I'm being unreasonable in his request or 3) I'm justified in being a little angry by the time the conversation ends. I've put in BOLD font the message that made me start to think if this guy was serious or not.

I need you (an impartial audience) to tell me what you think.

I appreciate the comments

------------------------------------------------------

July 15
ME: 
Just a heads up. All payments received by tonight will mean your books will ship out on Tuesday morning.

Payments received after that date will ship out Friday morning.

July 15
BUYER: 
Thank you for the heads up.
I did want to ask 1 thing... I am interested in bidding on more comics and wanted to know if you would be listing some so that I can take advantage of combined shipping.
Regards

July 17
ME:
I won’t be posting any more books for at least a couple more weeks. But most of the books I will be posting are duplicates of what I sold this past week.

July 17
BUYER:
There are actually quite a few that I did not get a chance to bid on because so I would be more then happy to wait...

All the comics seem to end at the same time and I did try to jump from listing to listing to bid but just no time.

When you do list the comics, would you be able to perhaps list them at least a minute or so apart?

Regards

July 17
ME:
Thank you for your comments but I would prefer not waiting a couple weeks for payment. 

As for spacing out the auctions if I ever sell this many at once again I will probably do as you suggested.

July 17
BUYER:
I would not have an issue making the payment if you need the money as you insist... I would just ask if you could hold off on shipping so I can bid on additional listings when you do post and take advantage of combined shipping?

July 17
ME:
I'll send you a list of books that I have left. It's not very many -- it includes the books that nobody bid on in my last auction and a few others that I had duplicates of (Doomsday Clock Lenticular, Warlord of Mars Dejah Thoris, and some Betty & Veronica variants)

July 17
ME:
So these are the only ones I have left:

Betty & Veronica #1 Comix Connection Variant
Betty & Veronica #3 Cover C
Harley Quinn #29 Variant (Frank Cho)
Nina and Ariel nn
Redneck #1 25th Anniversary Image Edition
Sinestro #16
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover A
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover B
Tank Girl: Tank Girl Gold #2
Ultimates 2 #100 Jack Kirby Variant

July 18:
BUYER:
Would you happen to have a picture of all the graded comics you have left because I am having a bit of a tough time remembering some or even looking them up to view the cover?

Regardless I would be interested in bidding on these when you choose to list them.

And like I said, I have no issue with making the payment... just would ask if you could hold off on shipping to take advantage of combined shipping.

July 18:
ME:
For pictures you can just look at my completed auctions. They are all listed there.

July 19:
BUYER:
I see you opened unpaid cases for the comics I won... what is the deal with that?

I have been quite clear and direct from the start - I told you about my interest in bidding on the the additional comics but you left me with no options or direction except for telling me what comics you have.

With all do respect, I do not like playing games or being jerked around.

July 19:
ME:
First of all, you must not have been around eBay for very long, because eBay automatically opens unpaid bidder cases after payment hasn't been made over the course of several days.

I told you where you could find pictures of the books (in my previously listed auctions) but you haven't responded. 

If anyone is being jerked around its me.

July 19:
BUYER:
I have told you MULTIPLE times at this point, that I was interested in your "available comics".
What exactly did you not understand about that?

I responded 2 days ago regarding payment and delaying shipping with no response from you regarding that.
You have been vague for no reason.

Since you assume I do not know how eBay works, let me enlighten you.
You may very well have chosen to have eBay turn on the unpaid case - but unpaid cases are only turned on when the seller requests or agrees to have automatic unpaid cases open in a certain amount of days. Not eBay!
Even then, a case can be easily turned off.
So like I said... you opened up the cases, even if you continue to blame eBay.

And how in any way have you been jerked around lol

July 19:
ME:
This dialogue has obviously become hostile and I did not intend for that to take place.

I did not open an unpaid items case. eBay did that on their own. If there is some setting that I must change in order for that not to take place, it really isn't worth my time finding it. It's a good measure (in my opinion) taken by eBay to make sure sellers get paid for their auctions.

Yes, you have told me you are interested in my other comics. And I told you several days ago if you look at my completed auctions you could see the pictures I have available. I'm not interested in duplicating my effort and sending you another batch of pictures of the same identical books.

At this point, you can 1) pay for the books or 2) request an order cancellation.

But I don't care to keep engaging in correspondence.

You're communications are appropriate but it seems as though the recipient is only reading every other word, or sentence. I get a sense of density in your buyer's ability to fully appreciate and process your stance on his requests, which should have been discussed prior to placing bids and being on the hook for the ones he did win already..

Edited by James J Johnson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, PunisherPunisherPunisher said:

Should have said no from the start and you wouldn't have been put in this tricky situation, not that you were in the wrong.

 

"I appreciate your interest in my items and your business.  Unfortunately I cannot accommodate this request"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

You're communications are appropriate but it seems as though the recipient is only reading every other word, or sentence.

It's like explaining to a teenager why they cant do something.  The more arguments you produce, the more counterarguments they produce, and the angrier they get.  Best way to deal with teenager is just say no, do not give 'reasons'.  If they say "WHY", say "no reason.  I've made my decision".  You can also say "I dont have to explain  myself to a child" but this can cause massive meltdown.

Edited by kav
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, kav said:

It's like explaining to a teenager why they cant do something.  The more arguments you produce, the more counterarguments they produce, and the angrier they get.  Best way to deal with teenager is just say no, do not give 'reasons'.  If they say "WHY", say "no reason".

I agree. Unless it's mentioned in the listing, like in this case, "You can suspend payment indefinitely while we negotiate pending more wins"; something that would be a condition of sale, a seller has no obligation to provide extra services or depart from the standard protocol dictating ebay sales and/or the seller's policies as laid out in the listing. .

Edited by James J Johnson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

You can suspend payment indefinitely while we negotiate pending more wins

I'm using this in my next listing lol 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think you did anything wrong however I believe the buyer was seeing that you were open to his suggestion.

I think you were being polite instead of being direct. 


BUYER:
I would not have an issue making the payment if you need the money as you insist... I would just ask if you could hold off on shipping so I can bid on additional listings when you do post and take advantage of combined shipping?

You answered with your list:

I'll send you a list of books that I have left. It's not very many -- it includes the books that nobody bid on in my last auction and a few others that I had duplicates of (Doomsday Clock Lenticular, Warlord of Mars Dejah Thoris, and some Betty & Veronica variants)

ME:
So these are the only ones I have left:

Betty & Veronica #1 Comix Connection Variant
Betty & Veronica #3 Cover C
Harley Quinn #29 Variant (Frank Cho)
Nina and Ariel nn
Redneck #1 25th Anniversary Image Edition
Sinestro #16
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover A
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover B
Tank Girl: Tank Girl Gold #2
Ultimates 2 #100 Jack Kirby Variant

If I ask you to wait so maybe I can buy more within a couple of weeks (and combine to save on shipping) and you send me a list

of the ones you have available that seems like you are discussing the situation not telling him no, I need the money now.

just my 2 cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, boatfund said:

If I ask you to wait so maybe I can buy more within a couple of weeks (and combine to save on shipping) and you send me a list

of the ones you have available that seems like you are discussing the situation not telling him no, I need the money now.

just my 2 cents.

never leave a partial hatch open for these kind of people and teenagers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, NamesJay said:

OK, so a buyer bought two CGC books for under $30 (I was having a bargain sale), and this dialogue took place over the course of a couple days.

I don't know if 1) this guy is trolling me or 2) I'm being unreasonable in his request or 3) I'm justified in being a little angry by the time the conversation ends. I've put in BOLD font the message that made me start to think if this guy was serious or not.

I need you (an impartial audience) to tell me what you think.

I appreciate the comments

------------------------------------------------------

July 15
ME: 
Just a heads up. All payments received by tonight will mean your books will ship out on Tuesday morning.

Payments received after that date will ship out Friday morning.

July 15
BUYER: 
Thank you for the heads up.
I did want to ask 1 thing... I am interested in bidding on more comics and wanted to know if you would be listing some so that I can take advantage of combined shipping.
Regards

July 17
ME:
I won’t be posting any more books for at least a couple more weeks. But most of the books I will be posting are duplicates of what I sold this past week.

July 17
BUYER:
There are actually quite a few that I did not get a chance to bid on because so I would be more then happy to wait...

All the comics seem to end at the same time and I did try to jump from listing to listing to bid but just no time.

When you do list the comics, would you be able to perhaps list them at least a minute or so apart?

Regards

July 17
ME:
Thank you for your comments but I would prefer not waiting a couple weeks for payment. 

As for spacing out the auctions if I ever sell this many at once again I will probably do as you suggested.

July 17
BUYER:
I would not have an issue making the payment if you need the money as you insist... I would just ask if you could hold off on shipping so I can bid on additional listings when you do post and take advantage of combined shipping?

July 17
ME:
I'll send you a list of books that I have left. It's not very many -- it includes the books that nobody bid on in my last auction and a few others that I had duplicates of (Doomsday Clock Lenticular, Warlord of Mars Dejah Thoris, and some Betty & Veronica variants)

July 17
ME:
So these are the only ones I have left:

Betty & Veronica #1 Comix Connection Variant
Betty & Veronica #3 Cover C
Harley Quinn #29 Variant (Frank Cho)
Nina and Ariel nn
Redneck #1 25th Anniversary Image Edition
Sinestro #16
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover A
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover B
Tank Girl: Tank Girl Gold #2
Ultimates 2 #100 Jack Kirby Variant

July 18:
BUYER:
Would you happen to have a picture of all the graded comics you have left because I am having a bit of a tough time remembering some or even looking them up to view the cover?

Regardless I would be interested in bidding on these when you choose to list them.

And like I said, I have no issue with making the payment... just would ask if you could hold off on shipping to take advantage of combined shipping.

July 18:
ME:
For pictures you can just look at my completed auctions. They are all listed there.

July 19:
BUYER:
I see you opened unpaid cases for the comics I won... what is the deal with that?

I have been quite clear and direct from the start - I told you about my interest in bidding on the the additional comics but you left me with no options or direction except for telling me what comics you have.

With all do respect, I do not like playing games or being jerked around.

July 19:
ME:
First of all, you must not have been around eBay for very long, because eBay automatically opens unpaid bidder cases after payment hasn't been made over the course of several days.

I told you where you could find pictures of the books (in my previously listed auctions) but you haven't responded. 

If anyone is being jerked around its me.

July 19:
BUYER:
I have told you MULTIPLE times at this point, that I was interested in your "available comics".
What exactly did you not understand about that?

I responded 2 days ago regarding payment and delaying shipping with no response from you regarding that.
You have been vague for no reason.

Since you assume I do not know how eBay works, let me enlighten you.
You may very well have chosen to have eBay turn on the unpaid case - but unpaid cases are only turned on when the seller requests or agrees to have automatic unpaid cases open in a certain amount of days. Not eBay!
Even then, a case can be easily turned off.
So like I said... you opened up the cases, even if you continue to blame eBay.

And how in any way have you been jerked around lol

July 19:
ME:
This dialogue has obviously become hostile and I did not intend for that to take place.

I did not open an unpaid items case. eBay did that on their own. If there is some setting that I must change in order for that not to take place, it really isn't worth my time finding it. It's a good measure (in my opinion) taken by eBay to make sure sellers get paid for their auctions.

Yes, you have told me you are interested in my other comics. And I told you several days ago if you look at my completed auctions you could see the pictures I have available. I'm not interested in duplicating my effort and sending you another batch of pictures of the same identical books.

At this point, you can 1) pay for the books or 2) request an order cancellation.

But I don't care to keep engaging in correspondence.

I think you are trolling us with this wall of text.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, NamesJay said:

OK, so a buyer bought two CGC books for under $30 (I was having a bargain sale), and this dialogue took place over the course of a couple days.

I don't know if 1) this guy is trolling me or 2) I'm being unreasonable in his request or 3) I'm justified in being a little angry by the time the conversation ends. I've put in BOLD font the message that made me start to think if this guy was serious or not.

I need you (an impartial audience) to tell me what you think.

I appreciate the comments

------------------------------------------------------

July 15
ME: 
Just a heads up. All payments received by tonight will mean your books will ship out on Tuesday morning.

Payments received after that date will ship out Friday morning.

July 15
BUYER: 
Thank you for the heads up.
I did want to ask 1 thing... I am interested in bidding on more comics and wanted to know if you would be listing some so that I can take advantage of combined shipping.
Regards

July 17
ME:
I won’t be posting any more books for at least a couple more weeks. But most of the books I will be posting are duplicates of what I sold this past week.

July 17
BUYER:
There are actually quite a few that I did not get a chance to bid on because so I would be more then happy to wait...

All the comics seem to end at the same time and I did try to jump from listing to listing to bid but just no time.

When you do list the comics, would you be able to perhaps list them at least a minute or so apart?

Regards

July 17
ME:
Thank you for your comments but I would prefer not waiting a couple weeks for payment. 

As for spacing out the auctions if I ever sell this many at once again I will probably do as you suggested.

July 17
BUYER:
I would not have an issue making the payment if you need the money as you insist... I would just ask if you could hold off on shipping so I can bid on additional listings when you do post and take advantage of combined shipping?

July 17
ME:
I'll send you a list of books that I have left. It's not very many -- it includes the books that nobody bid on in my last auction and a few others that I had duplicates of (Doomsday Clock Lenticular, Warlord of Mars Dejah Thoris, and some Betty & Veronica variants)

July 17
ME:
So these are the only ones I have left:

Betty & Veronica #1 Comix Connection Variant
Betty & Veronica #3 Cover C
Harley Quinn #29 Variant (Frank Cho)
Nina and Ariel nn
Redneck #1 25th Anniversary Image Edition
Sinestro #16
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover A
Supergirl #1 Michael Turner SDCC Cover B
Tank Girl: Tank Girl Gold #2
Ultimates 2 #100 Jack Kirby Variant

July 18:
BUYER:
Would you happen to have a picture of all the graded comics you have left because I am having a bit of a tough time remembering some or even looking them up to view the cover?

Regardless I would be interested in bidding on these when you choose to list them.

And like I said, I have no issue with making the payment... just would ask if you could hold off on shipping to take advantage of combined shipping.

July 18:
ME:
For pictures you can just look at my completed auctions. They are all listed there.

July 19:
BUYER:
I see you opened unpaid cases for the comics I won... what is the deal with that?

I have been quite clear and direct from the start - I told you about my interest in bidding on the the additional comics but you left me with no options or direction except for telling me what comics you have.

With all do respect, I do not like playing games or being jerked around.

July 19:
ME:
First of all, you must not have been around eBay for very long, because eBay automatically opens unpaid bidder cases after payment hasn't been made over the course of several days.

I told you where you could find pictures of the books (in my previously listed auctions) but you haven't responded. 

If anyone is being jerked around its me.

July 19:
BUYER:
I have told you MULTIPLE times at this point, that I was interested in your "available comics".
What exactly did you not understand about that?

I responded 2 days ago regarding payment and delaying shipping with no response from you regarding that.
You have been vague for no reason.

Since you assume I do not know how eBay works, let me enlighten you.
You may very well have chosen to have eBay turn on the unpaid case - but unpaid cases are only turned on when the seller requests or agrees to have automatic unpaid cases open in a certain amount of days. Not eBay!
Even then, a case can be easily turned off.
So like I said... you opened up the cases, even if you continue to blame eBay.

And how in any way have you been jerked around lol

July 19:
ME:
This dialogue has obviously become hostile and I did not intend for that to take place.

I did not open an unpaid items case. eBay did that on their own. If there is some setting that I must change in order for that not to take place, it really isn't worth my time finding it. It's a good measure (in my opinion) taken by eBay to make sure sellers get paid for their auctions.

Yes, you have told me you are interested in my other comics. And I told you several days ago if you look at my completed auctions you could see the pictures I have available. I'm not interested in duplicating my effort and sending you another batch of pictures of the same identical books.

At this point, you can 1) pay for the books or 2) request an order cancellation.

But I don't care to keep engaging in correspondence.

Sounds like someone I know

And yes,very unreasonable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there any chance this was a misunderstanding but escalated when the unpaid item case kicked in (I have it manually set on my store)?

I kinda read it as "Can I pay for the books I won, but not shipping, and when you list the others in a few weeks I'll buy some more and pay for them along with the combined postage"?

In other words - I'll pay for the books now, you hang on to them, and if I buy others or not, send me a combined shipping bill when I see your new ones?

July 17
BUYER:
I would not have an issue making the payment if you need the money as you insist... I would just ask if you could hold off on shipping so I can bid on additional listings when you do post and take advantage of combined shipping?

You could read it that way maybe?

Regardless, the buyer certainly could have been much clearer if that's what he meant. Hopefully he paid eventually :foryou:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I’m going to take a slightly different view as others. I think you were being reasonable, but   I also see where he was coming from. 

He wants to buy more books to save on shipping. Given the books are cheap ($30 each), the shipping (i would assume for 3 slabs, it’s like $20-25), the shipping here is a big % of overall cost here. 

From my read, the breakdown came when:

- He didn’t understand that the next sale would be the same books as what just sold, and that’s why you said for pics, he could look at the sold auctions. He also mistakenly took the auto-message from Ebay to be “from you”, and thus thought you were basically telling him to screw off

- BTW, are all of the new books coming up in next auction slabs? Or raw? I suspect raw (given you don’t list grades when listing out the books), so getting pics of the actual duplicate books in next sale would be a legit request, to see grade

- If you don’t want to do that, totally your call. Reasonable position to take

- He offered to pay for the books now (exc shipping), and so if there was going to be back and forth on books, the only thing I suppose you could have done would be offered to revise the invoice to exclude shipping, so he could pay now and then wait for the next auction (or at least continue the discussion on what books would be in next auction).

You don’t have to do this of course, and this would be going above and beyond, but that’s probably the only thing you could’ve done differently should you have wanted. I don’t think this was a case of him trolling you, but more some misunderstandings, some overreactions, and some immaturity / anger from him when he (mistakenly) thought you initiated a non-buyer ping on him

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0