Have we Lost our Way??? 0

[Robot Man]

Kinda slow here these days with the "Con of the Century" going on. Plus I am stuck in my wife's antique show booth helping her out. (Not that I didn't drift around and pick up a couple cool beauties for myself!). There are always a few of those people who have cool things that are just "out of place" in the room...

Recently I was able to pick up a very cool pair of books from a boardie who was kind enough to cull them from his collection. Initially, I bought them for the covers. I collect (or rather accumulate) Baseball and Football covers. I also like Motorcycle covers and toys from another life long passions of "iron horses". These sure fit the bill. I also bought them for 2 other reasons...

One was a slabbed Edgar Church issue and priced VERY reasonable. One can never have enough of Edgar's old books. The other was a fat GA issue of Boy Commandos also VERY reasonable. Now, I know these have seen their day and are very unloved these days. Not a huge Simon and Kirby fan, but these fat WWII issues are always a very fun read for me.

I opened the package and went right away to that slabbed Church book. Smiled at the silly cover, turned it over glanced at the back cover then inspected it to determine why the folks at CGC would put that big "6.0" on the cover. Cool, maybe 5+ minutes of fun and put it aside. The Boy Commandoes, I checked out the nice group of wartime Harley's in Jack's style and opened it up. Checked the condition, counted the pages, smelled the paper (you all know the drill), then sat down and enjoyed the stories, the house ads (dreaming I had all the ones pictured that month and wondering why a kid selected this issue over other obvious choices to me). Maybe 15-20 minutes at less than half the cost of the Mickey Finn.

As much as I appreciate slabbed books, understand the need for them and appreciate the extra value they add, they just leave me cold. I know, you can crack them... and I have but felt no need to on this one. The Boy Commandos, I had a "relationship" with. I had fun with and was happy with the money I spent on it.

Now days, there seems to be so much attention to the big number on the slab and the front cover. Most folks have no desire to open them and enjoy them for what they are, kid's comic books. Books that transport us to a happier place where life and money sit in the back seat.

There are a fair number of us that still remember the wonder of buying these and actually reading and enjoying them. You know, spotting it on a spinner rack, getting a few and sitting in the back of the station wagon on a long family trip. Reading the hell out of them and trading among our friends. As collectors, getting the last issue of a run you love, reading it and that feeling of a quest is over.

So I ask you? Is the original thrill gone? Is it really about having the biggest number, posting it on Instagram or here. Having other collectors oh and ahh for a couple seconds and on to the next pretty thing? Am I missing something about graded books? Is it just about the money and the big number or are there still big kids like me that get that "thrill" about getting a new comic and devouring it?

[KirbyJack]

I like to think I’m still in it for the fun. My core interest is Kirby Fantastic Four. I have a few slabs, but I keep reading copies (Marvel’s Greatest Comics mostly) in low grade so I can read them, set them down, get a snack, drink a Dew, play with a cat...

I do like my slabbed books, but as I’ve said before; if you don’t read your comics, you’re missing the best part of the hobby.

And BTW, Boy Commandos rules!

[1950's war comics]

2 minutes ago, KirbyJack said:

CGC 0.5 IMO but still very nice for the grade !!  

Edited July 20, 2019 by 1950's war comics

[1950's war comics]

1 hour ago, Robot Man said:

Am I missing something about graded books

when it comes to any comic that is valuable one almost has to buy CGC graded or risk getting ripped off..

it is well known in the coin collecting community that one should never buy a key coin (1909 s VDB  1914D lincoln  1916D Mercury etc etc,,) less they get ripped off and they buy an altered coin .. too many well done fakes that are nearly undetectable except for the experts

Edited July 20, 2019 by 1950's war comics

[KirbyJack]

50’s, I had to really man up to wrest that one from Harley! SDCC 2010!

Edited July 20, 2019 by KirbyJack

[Sqeggs]

1 hour ago, 1950's war comics said:

when it comes to any comic that is valuable one almost has to buy CGC graded or risk getting ripped off..

it is well known in the coin collecting community that one should never buy a key coin (1909 s VDB  1914D lincoln  1916D Mercury etc etc,,) less they get ripped off and they buy an altered coin .. too many well done fakes that are nearly undetectable except for the experts

Yes, I think as books escalated in price, the resto check CGC provided was an important part of their early success. And there turned out to be some unpleasant surprises for collectors who didn't realize they had paid top dollar for books with undisclosed resto. 

[Sqeggs]

3 hours ago, Robot Man said:

Kinda slow here these days with the "Con of the Century" going on. Plus I am stuck in my wife's antique show booth helping her out. (Not that I didn't drift around and pick up a couple cool beauties for myself!). There are always a few of those people who have cool things that are just "out of place" in the room...

Recently I was able to pick up a very cool pair of books from a boardie who was kind enough to cull them from his collection. Initially, I bought them for the covers. I collect (or rather accumulate) Baseball and Football covers. I also like Motorcycle covers and toys from another life long passions of "iron horses". These sure fit the bill. I also bought them for 2 other reasons...

One was a slabbed Edgar Church issue and priced VERY reasonable. One can never have enough of Edgar's old books. The other was a fat GA issue of Boy Commandos also VERY reasonable. Now, I know these have seen their day and are very unloved these days. Not a huge Simon and Kirby fan, but these fat WWII issues are always a very fun read for me.

I opened the package and went right away to that slabbed Church book. Smiled at the silly cover, turned it over glanced at the back cover then inspected it to determine why the folks at CGC would put that big "6.0" on the cover. Cool, maybe 5+ minutes of fun and put it aside. The Boy Commandoes, I checked out the nice group of wartime Harley's in Jack's style and opened it up. Checked the condition, counted the pages, smelled the paper (you all know the drill), then sat down and enjoyed the stories, the house ads (dreaming I had all the ones pictured that month and wondering why a kid selected this issue over other obvious choices to me). Maybe 15-20 minutes at less than half the cost of the Mickey Finn.

As much as I appreciate slabbed books, understand the need for them and appreciate the extra value they add, they just leave me cold. I know, you can crack them... and I have but felt no need to on this one. The Boy Commandos, I had a "relationship" with. I had fun with and was happy with the money I spent on it.

Now days, there seems to be so much attention to the big number on the slab and the front cover. Most folks have no desire to open them and enjoy them for what they are, kid's comic books. Books that transport us to a happier place where life and money sit in the back seat.

There are a fair number of us that still remember the wonder of buying these and actually reading and enjoying them. You know, spotting it on a spinner rack, getting a few and sitting in the back of the station wagon on a long family trip. Reading the hell out of them and trading among our friends. As collectors, getting the last issue of a run you love, reading it and that feeling of a quest is over.

So I ask you? Is the original thrill gone? Is it really about having the biggest number, posting it on Instagram or here. Having other collectors oh and ahh for a couple seconds and on to the next pretty thing? Am I missing something about graded books? Is it just about the money and the big number or are there still big kids like me that get that "thrill" about getting a new comic and devouring it?

I think the detached cf explains the grade on that Mickey Finn.

With respect to the current state of the hobby, I have to say that although I read tons of comics as a kid, I read only infrequently these days. CGC has been a godsend for the hobby because it gives a collector like me a way to know what he's got, what an impartial third party thinks the grade is of a book up for sale/auction, and whether the book has color touch or other restoration. 

When CGC started, I thought it was the dumbest thing I ever heard of. Comics aren't like baseball cards or coins -- they have insides that you're supposed to be able to have access to! But the truth is, I doubt I'd still be collecting if it wasn't for CGC. So, yeah, over the years I've morphed from a reader/collector to more of a pure collector. 

The escalation of prices that CGC has had a major role in bringing about obviously has a downside for collectors but it has also provided an incentive for dealers to seek out books and bring them to market. CGC, eBay, and the auction houses have added a lot of liquidity to what would otherwise be a pretty thin market. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Sqeggs
Typos

[KirbyJack]

It’s a natural progression from pure reader to being interested in nicer copies. You upgrade. You have access to better stuff, and have the knowledge to appreciate it. I’m no paragon of nostalgic purity; I’m just broke.

[porcupine48]

2 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

when it comes to any comic that is valuable one almost has to buy CGC graded or risk getting ripped off..

it is well known in the coin collecting community that one should never buy a key coin (1909 s VDB  1914D lincoln  1916D Mercury etc etc,,) less they get ripped off and they buy an altered coin .. too many well done fakes that are nearly undetectable except for the experts

And fakes(coins) done by the experts,or at least manipulated before slabbing-or what the term coinees use is.Just look at that sports card thread.I certainly don't fully trust any grading company nowadays.

[porcupine48]

8 minutes ago, KirbyJack said:

It’s a natural progression from pure reader to being interested in nicer copies. You upgrade. You have access to better stuff, and have the knowledge to appreciate it. I’m no paragon of nostalgic purity; I’m just broke.

Here's to being comic rich and cash poor KJ!

(another ice cold soda cheers to you! )

[1950's war comics]

2 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

And fakes(coins) done by the experts,or at least manipulated before slabbing-or what the term coinees use is.Just look at that sports card thread.I certainly don't fully trust any grading company nowadays.

i have never heard of an altered or fake rare date key coin being slabbed by CGC parent company NGC

[KirbyJack]

2 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

Here's to being comic rich and cash poor KJ!

(another ice cold soda cheers to you! )

Back atcha, brother!

[porcupine48]

9 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

i have never heard of an altered or fake rare date key coin being slabbed by CGC parent company NGC

I don't want to derail Robots thread any further ,but this is what I was referring to.My mistake getting the sports card,this thread above mixed up,sorry

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by porcupine48

[sacentaur]

So I ask you? Is the original thrill gone?

Sort of - there will always be the thrill of the hunt. Or the thrill of entering a new genre (for example, I have primarily been a Romance collector the last 3.5 years). The thrill of getting a package in the mail. The thrill of making a cool discovery while box diving. And so on...

 

[Artboy99]

The way has not been lost, and you already discovered the solution: collect both slabbed books and raw books. You have the thrill of owning slabbed copies of collectibles that are professionally graded and the pleasure of reading the raw books. Want to read the slabbed book? Obtain a raw copy.

[Sauce Dog]

3 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

The way has not been lost, and you already discovered the solution: collect both slabbed books and raw books. You have the thrill of owning slabbed copies of collectibles that are professionally graded and the pleasure of reading the raw books. Want to read the slabbed book? Obtain a raw copy.

This is exactly what I do with my favorite issues, I get one that is as good a grade as I can afford and another low end copy for reading and sharing with other enthusiasts / friends kids (my three favorites below). It does mean i'm in the end spending more on the same issues, but it also means I can also 'cash out' if the market gets even crazier without having to part with my ONLY copy of a book.

[ender]

21 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Yes, I think as books escalated in price, the resto check CGC provided was an important part of their early success. And there turned out to be some unpleasant surprises for collectors who didn't realize they had paid top dollar for books with undisclosed resto. 

A question; how likely is it that the increased knowledge of what is restored and what is not has widened the gulf between price for restored vs non restored? I don’t think that was CGC s intent just a result of the different labels. As I understand the history of comic collecting in the 1970’s there was not the disdain for restoration that exists now. If I am wrong in this thought I would welcome other opinions as I am always willing to learn.

also as others have said for almost all my books I do have a reprint/reading copy/digital file. 

[Sqeggs]

Just now, ender said:

A question; how likely is it that the increased knowledge of what is restored and what is not has widened the gulf between price for restored vs non restored? I don’t think that was CGC s intent just a result of the different labels. As I understand the history of comic collecting in the 1970’s there was not the disdain for restoration that exists now. If I am wrong in this thought I would welcome other opinions as I am always willing to learn.

also as others have said for almost all my books I do have a reprint/reading copy/digital file. 

Interesting and much-discussed question. I think you're right that at one time there wasn't the disdain for resto that exists today. Comics were more like maps, books, and posters in that respect. I'd go so far as to say that there was a widespread view that any key book that a had a significant defect should be restored. That might overstate it a bit, but I think it was a view that a lot of people had. You certainly see a considerable number of books in PLODs that would never be restored today. Presumably at the time the resto was done, the owners thought they were improving the books, both visually and (probably) monetarily.

It may be that when the undisclosed resto on some key books--particularly Church copies--came to light, the backlash led to a turning away from resto in most instances. Comics seem to be an outlier among paper collectibles in how many (most?) collectors view resto.

My take; others may differ. 

[sacentaur]

Restoration in the day was generally more accepted than it is today.

Part of the disdain resulted from collectors being sold restored books without any disclosure. High profile sellers made it a routine practice to cheat buyers. This led to resentment and frustration.

Actually today I am more accepting of restoration than I ever have been, as long as it is disclosed.

[path4play]

On 7/20/2019 at 4:19 PM, Robot Man said:

Kinda slow here these days with the "Con of the Century" going on. Plus I am stuck in my wife's antique show booth helping her out. (Not that I didn't drift around and pick up a couple cool beauties for myself!). There are always a few of those people who have cool things that are just "out of place" in the room...

Recently I was able to pick up a very cool pair of books from a boardie who was kind enough to cull them from his collection. Initially, I bought them for the covers. I collect (or rather accumulate) Baseball and Football covers. I also like Motorcycle covers and toys from another life long passions of "iron horses". These sure fit the bill. I also bought them for 2 other reasons...

One was a slabbed Edgar Church issue and priced VERY reasonable. One can never have enough of Edgar's old books. The other was a fat GA issue of Boy Commandos also VERY reasonable. Now, I know these have seen their day and are very unloved these days. Not a huge Simon and Kirby fan, but these fat WWII issues are always a very fun read for me. 

I opened the package and went right away to that slabbed Church book. Smiled at the silly cover, turned it over glanced at the back cover then inspected it to determine why the folks at CGC would put that big "6.0" on the cover. Cool, maybe 5+ minutes of fun and put it aside. The Boy Commandoes, I checked out the nice group of wartime Harley's in Jack's style and opened it up. Checked the condition, counted the pages, smelled the paper (you all know the drill), then sat down and enjoyed the stories, the house ads (dreaming I had all the ones pictured that month and wondering why a kid selected this issue over other obvious choices to me). Maybe 15-20 minutes at less than half the cost of the Mickey Finn.

As much as I appreciate slabbed books, understand the need for them and appreciate the extra value they add, they just leave me cold. I know, you can crack them... and I have but felt no need to on this one. The Boy Commandos, I had a "relationship" with. I had fun with and was happy with the money I spent on it.

Now days, there seems to be so much attention to the big number on the slab and the front cover. Most folks have no desire to open them and enjoy them for what they are, kid's comic books. Books that transport us to a happier place where life and money sit in the back seat.

There are a fair number of us that still remember the wonder of buying these and actually reading and enjoying them. You know, spotting it on a spinner rack, getting a few and sitting in the back of the station wagon on a long family trip. Reading the hell out of them and trading among our friends. As collectors, getting the last issue of a run you love, reading it and that feeling of a quest is over.

So I ask you? Is the original thrill gone? Is it really about having the biggest number, posting it on Instagram or here. Having other collectors oh and ahh for a couple seconds and on to the next pretty thing? Am I missing something about graded books? Is it just about the money and the big number or are there still big kids like me that get that "thrill" about getting a new comic and devouring it?

 

 

Geez Robot look what I started? 

You can probably find another Mickey Finn to smell.  I like the whiff too, don't get me wrong.  But without the slab, how would it retain the historic connection to Edgar Church?

Life in general isn't the same.  I'm not heading down to the convention center to convert my paper route money into silver, riding my Honda express moped or watching my flair cuff jeans wave in the wind while I run to school. 

Nothing is the same.  I just cling to the books to evoke something of the memory.

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by path4play