Don’t Use CCS! Beware! 0

[BuscemasAvengers]

So, if not CCS, then ... who would be recommended to do the removal/cleaning?

[Sauce Dog]

I am totally rethinking my decision to send to them now. I have always used a third party for restoration services (restoring books, not removing), but figured this time I would go directly to them for minor CT removal and pressing...but now I really don't have the confidence it would be worth it, especially the pressing since this is a GA book with full book waving in the grader notes and I know that will require care   

[The Lions Den]

7 hours ago, BarristerBaker said:

I’m a fairly discerning collector. I wouldn’t have sent the book off without being generally aware of what was necessary. This isn’t an issue of extensive, far reaching CT. It was about as minor as it gets. 

But, let’s say it was of the nature/type that could not be addressed without significant damage, wouldn’t you connect with the customer to discuss options, let them know what was doable or not? If they couldn’t address it, then let’s not cut the book at all. I’d prefer them sending it back, with a note/explanation, keep some sort of processing fee, etc. 

That doesn’t happen at the hatchet-factory. No communication, just poor work, mistakes in processing, lack of appreciation for the material, etc. A book comes in at 9.2 C-1, you pop the slab, cut up the book and send it back...at 8.5 C-1, and think “job well done here, guys”? Sorry, that’s not acceptable.

 

[comicwiz]

11 hours ago, BarristerBaker said:

That doesn’t happen at the hatchet-factory.

I'm sorry this happened to you and such a fine book.

From the sounds of it, you gave them more than one chance to do this right. I hate sounding like I'm using your bad experience for amusement, but the "hatchet-factory" moniker just confirms what I've always believed them to be - comic wreckers!

[NP_Gresham]

Matt Nelson was the infamous eBay shiller who sent his minion on here to try to excuse this behavior.

He then joined the "CGC team" and got the shiller thread deleted.

Why anyone thought a change in venue would cause the sun to shine differently on his shady practices is beyond me.

 

[comicwiz]

11 hours ago, NP_Gresham said:

Matt Nelson was the infamous eBay shiller who sent his minion on here to try to excuse this behavior.

He then joined the "CGC team" and got the shiller thread deleted.

Why anyone thought a change in venue would cause the sun to shine differently on his shady practices is beyond me.

 

It's not that his moral compass is too loosely calibrated, or not working. It's actually the fuel gauge from Archie's jalopy, and the dial is stuck on empty.

[newshane]

On 7/24/2019 at 9:13 AM, Black_Adam said:

It's both frustrating and disappointing that in the current climate of comic collecting the stigma attached to the tiniest bit of color touch on (once) beautiful comics like yours has created a marketplace where butchery of these comics actually makes them more valuable. Leave these comics alone. Two wrongs do NOT make a right. 

 

Well...you said it perfectly before I had the chance. 

[newshane]

CT removal is like cutting off an arm to get rid of a wart on your finger. 

[BarristerBaker]

12 minutes ago, newshane said:

CT removal is like cutting off an arm to get rid of a wart on your finger. 

I generally agree, but these were two awfully small warts. I assumed the doctor would know what to do. Didn’t lose an arm, but the treatment certainly wasn’t localized. 

Seriously, this was light CT. Super light. Had I known they’d take not only the finger but the wrist as well, I’d of course have skipped the treatment.

[telerites]

2 minutes ago, BarristerBaker said:

I generally agree, but these were two awfully small warts. I assumed the doctor would know what to do. Didn’t lose an arm, but the treatment certainly wasn’t localized. 

Seriously, this was light CT. Super light. Had I known they’d take not only the finger but the wrist as well, I’d of course have skipped the treatment.

Shouldn't they also offer an analysis of the estimated grade impact for removing the CT?  I ask that rhetorically, really.  I would want that service before removal as it may play in may decision to move forward.   Pay for the analysis and pay for any removal if you move forward - doesn't that make sense?

[theCapraAegagrus]

6 minutes ago, telerites said:

Shouldn't they also offer an analysis of the estimated grade impact for removing the CT?  I ask that rhetorically, really.  I would want that service before removal as it may play in may decision to move forward.   Pay for the analysis and pay for any removal if you move forward - doesn't that make sense?

It makes sense, but would set a dangerous precedent, as the CCS guys don't grade for CGC.

[telerites]

1 minute ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

It makes sense, but would set a dangerous precedent, as the CCS guys don't grade for CGC.

I understand but other pressers give estimated grades and since it is a estimate of possible grade impact, it wouldn't be provided as a CGC grade after removal.  Heck, after @BarristerBaker's ordeal, they can't even remove CT so it is a moot point anyway 

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, telerites said:

I understand but other pressers give estimated grades and since it is a estimate of possible grade impact, it wouldn't be provided as a CGC grade after removal.  Heck, after @BarristerBaker's ordeal, they can't even remove CT so it is a moot point anyway 

I would just give, "Estimated 0.5", after every inquiry. Could bring collecting restored comics back to the hobby!

[oldrover]

5 minutes ago, telerites said:

Shouldn't they also offer an analysis of the estimated grade impact for removing the CT?  I ask that rhetorically, really.  I would want that service before removal as it may play in may decision to move forward.   Pay for the analysis and pay for any removal if you move forward - doesn't that make sense?

In my experience, they have only recommended resto removal (and/or regrading) when the outcome would be positive financially.

For example, my Avengers 4 9.4 had the PLOD, because the cover was cleaned. I sent it in for resto removal, and they couldn't undo a chemical cleaning. But they recommended it be regraded to get the Conserved label.

I did that, the Conserved book still got a 9.4, and probably at least doubled in value. (sold it for $8500)

Conversely I had an ASM 13, 7.0 PLOD, on which they declined to remove color touch. (described as "slight") My guess is the removal would have dropped it to a 4.5 or so... selling around $900 at the time. I sold the PLOD for $1300.

[walclark]

9 hours ago, BarristerBaker said:

I generally agree, but these were two awfully small warts. I assumed the doctor would know what to do. Didn’t lose an arm, but the treatment certainly wasn’t localized. 

Seriously, this was light CT. Super light. Had I known they’d take not only the finger but the wrist as well, I’d of course have skipped the treatment.

I have a couple of books with “very minor color touch” and I would like to have restoration removal performed on them, but just not with a chainsaw and belt sander.

[BarristerBaker]

14 minutes ago, walclark said:

I have a couple of books with “very minor color touch” and I would like to have restoration removal performed on them, but just not with a chainsaw and belt sander.

You’re not getting good service until you get the yard clippers and steel brush...and then a purple label on the other side of that “work.” It’s the seldom offered “BIZARRO” service tier which isn’t listed on their site. Requires twice the shipping, twice the wait and, in the end, the opposite results from what any rational expectation would produce. It’s killer. For best results, please submit rare books that might challenge top of the census. That’s really preferred. 

[Tony S]

Amateur (C category) restoration are not good candidates for restoration removal. Almost never. If you are really lucky and it's one tiny spot, OK. But there is no guarantee that the initial grading notation of "very slight, slight or moderate" is particularly accurate. 

The bottom line is the book in question had more CT than the original grading would lead most to believe. It's too late now, but the book should have just been left alone. 

[Mercury Man]

Much like agreeing to plastic surgery, sometimes Doctors make things worse than make them better, and there really is no going back.  

[Mercury Man]

 hmmm

Edited July 27, 2019 by Mercury Man

[BarristerBaker]

8 hours ago, Tony S said:

Amateur (C category) restoration are not good candidates for restoration removal. Almost never. If you are really lucky and it's one tiny spot, OK. But there is no guarantee that the initial grading notation of "very slight, slight or moderate" is particularly accurate. 

The bottom line is the book in question had more CT than the original grading would lead most to believe. It's too late now, but the book should have just been left alone. 

Or it was a shoddy job. And a job that was incomplete. 

It’s too late now, but the answer is to use another service if you’re going to have work done, not “work should never be done.” CCS isn’t a quality provider. Full stop.