Are we at a peak of back issue worth/sales? 6 6

[XxSpideyxX]

There seem to be two independent conversations going on here, and I'm not sure how much they each actually relate to one another.

The first being that superhero movies are a fad in the cinematic genre and will die out to some (large?) degree.  With this sentiment, I tend to agree.  If we look at popular movie genres over the years, there has also been a trend of genre popularity every 10 years or so.  Very generally speaking, cinema saw genres gain and lose popularity every decade since sound entered the picture.  We had romantic comedies in the 30s, film noir in the 40s, westerns in the 50s, rebellion movies in the 60s, disaster films in the 70s, adventure films in the 80s, dramas in the 90s, and superheroes this decade.  Of course, each of these respective genres have continued with spattered success, but nothing like the popularity they experienced in their prime decade.  

So yes, I think superhero movies will decrease in popularity starting now.  But I'm not sure we can correlate that to back issues we all own today.  We haven't seen an increase in comic book sales as a result of the increased popularity of superhero films.  We've actually seen the opposite.  What this means (to me) is that the films aren't driving comic sales.  But again, I hope I'm wrong!

Edited August 9, 2019 by XxSpideyxX

[XxSpideyxX]

13 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Like the old saying goes on the boards here...................Buy what you love and enjoy, and if it happens to go up in value, then that's just an extra bonus.  

 

I guess that's my problem.  I love to death the very few comics I own.  But it's honestly hard to feel good about spending a ton of money on them, when I can essentially read them all for free or under a dollar if I really want to.  Why I buy the comics I do basically boils down to two reasons:

1)  I want to own the best version of the "original" versions of the comic books that I can afford because they have strong sentimental value to me.

2)  I see these as an investment in some form.  Whether it be to pass along to my children as a way to remember me, or a way to provide on rainy day when all else fails.

Let's not kid ourselves.  We slab these books to preserve them, but also to help us have a better objective idea of their worth.  We can't really "enjoy" all these books have to offer books if they are permanently sealed.   We slab to protect, give objective value, and, if not to sell, then to pass down.  So I buy the comics because I love and enjoy them, but I deliberately choose the more expensive option.  It isn't good enough for me if it isn't tangible and real.  And if I'm going to spend in some cases a 1000 times more for the same version of something I can read on my phone, I want it not be money wasted in 10-20 years.  

I'm certainly not trying to use these as a retirement fund, but I also hope I'm not completely wasting money.  In a way, it's like a home improvement.  You do it primarily because you want to enjoy it, but you also want it to, in the very least, not depreciate the value of your home    

[EastEnd1]

I think so long as the super-hero is popular (regardless of form of media) there will always be a smaller segment of that fan base that will gravitate to the original source material.  Even for me as a kid fifty years ago, I became a Superman fan from watching the old George Reeves tv show, well before I bought my first comic.  So I think that nostalgia factor will still be there... it's just a bit different in how it works.    

Edited August 9, 2019 by EastEnd1
misspelled word

[marvelmaniac]

28 minutes ago, XxSpideyxX said:

 

I guess that's my problem.  I love to death the very few comics I own.  But it's honestly hard to feel good about spending a ton of money on them, when I can essentially read them all for free or under a dollar if I really want to.  Why I buy the comics I do basically boils down to two reasons:

1)  I want to own the best version of the "original" versions of the comic books that I can afford because they have strong sentimental value to me.

2)  I see these as an investment in some form.  Whether it be to pass along to my children as a way to remember me, or a way to provide on rainy day when all else fails.

Let's not kid ourselves.  We slab these books to preserve them, but also to help us have a better objective idea of their worth.  We can't really "enjoy" all these books have to offer books if they are permanently sealed.   We slab to protect, give objective value, and, if not to sell, then to pass down.  So I buy the comics because I love and enjoy them, but I deliberately choose the more expensive option.  It isn't good enough for me if it isn't tangible and real.  And if I'm going to spend in some cases a 1000 times more for the same version of something I can read on my phone, I want it not be money wasted in 10-20 years.  

I'm certainly not trying to use these as a retirement fund, but I also hope I'm not completely wasting money.  In a way, it's like a home improvement.  You do it primarily because you want to enjoy it, but you also want it to, in the very least, not depreciate the value of your home    

I have never purchased a comic for investment purposes or what will happen to it in the future, it was always to complete my runs and enjoy the books/stories for what they are, comic books have always brought me joy.

Even though I do not buy anymore I still thoroughly enjoy my collection, I Love being able to pick up a physical copy of an old book and just look at it or take it out of the Mylite, hold it and flip through the pages. 

I actually Love the smell of decaying paper,  (there was one LCS that had that smell, it hit you right in the face when you walked in, it was like a drug to me),  just knowing that I have all of these books makes me Happy. 

Everytime I walk in or look in my bedroom and see all of the Collectibles/Memorabilia/Comics displayed it puts a BIG SMILE on my face. and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. 

When I am gone my kids are going to sell them so I have them for ME to LOVE and ENJOY, NOW.

[lizards2]

9 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

17 hours ago, lizards2 said:

he was walking by me in the halls one day with a "Howard the Duck for President" t-shirt.

I can only imagine the nerdboner that inspired...

not that there's anything wrong with that....., 

[lizards2]

56 minutes ago, XxSpideyxX said:

There seem to be two independent conversations going on here, and I'm not sure how much they each actually relate to one another.

Comics General usually consists of a bunch of rabid people with strong opinions talking past each other.

[F For Fake]

My two cents, and worth even less than that, is that superheroes are going to be a part of pop culture for a long time to come. Too much money wrapped up in it now. Film, tv, video games, and toys, it's gonna be a superhero world.

But the actual comics themselves aren't long for this world. Print media is dying. It's sad, but it seems inevitable, and I'm sure we'll see the end of comic publishing within my lifetime, hell, if not even in the next several years.

I expect the market for keys will continue to be strong, run books will continue to eat dirt.

As for kids, every kid I know loves superheroes, but none of them read comics. My niece is 11, and she reads comics, and "collects" them in that I give her comics and she puts them in a box I got her. She did ask for a gift certificate to the LCS for her birthday, and I complied with that. We took her to the shop and she bought some 75 cent Archie Digests, some little toys and a mood ring. 

However, as many have already pointed out, I didn't even know a lot of comic collectors when I was growing up during the boom of the 80's into the 90's. I knew exactly one other "collector" who was super into it like me. I had two other friends who occasoinally bought The Punisher and Ghost Rider, sporadically. And that was it. Comics never seemed popular even when they apparently were. 

[XxSpideyxX]

2 hours ago, marvelmaniac said:

I have never purchased a comic for investment purposes or what will happen to it in the future, it was always to complete my runs and enjoy the books/stories for what they are, comic books have always brought me joy.

Even though I do not buy anymore I still thoroughly enjoy my collection, I Love being able to pick up a physical copy of an old book and just look at it or take it out of the Mylite, hold it and flip through the pages. 

I actually Love the smell of decaying paper,  (there was one LCS that had that smell, it hit you right in the face when you walked in, it was like a drug to me),  just knowing that I have all of these books makes me Happy. 

Everytime I walk in or look in my bedroom and see all of the Collectibles/Memorabilia/Comics displayed it puts a BIG SMILE on my face. and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. 

When I am gone my kids are going to sell them so I have them for ME to LOVE and ENJOY, NOW.

I agree.  There is something tangible and real about holding the comics and completing a run or set.

That being said, let me ask this

Let's say those comics that you own are worth absolutely nothing in terms of monetary value starting right now.  Would you still add to the collections?  Would you read them differently?  Store them differently?  Would you slab any?  I'm sure you would keep them.  That part is not up for debate.  But I wonder if you would store them or read them the same way?   I think (whether we want to admit it or not) we feel some inherent monetary value/investment in our comics.  Despite AND because of our love for them

I'm certainly not trying to argue with you because I agree with you fully.  It just matters to me that these comics are worth SOMETHING beyond sentimental value and I hope they at least remain to do so.

Edited August 9, 2019 by XxSpideyxX

[vheflin]

1 hour ago, october said:

Listening to the doom and gloom in this thread you would think that the last Avengers movie barely limped to a profit instead of being, you know, the highest grossing movie in HISTORY.

Gone with the Wind is the highest grossing movie in history and will likely never be topped.

[Krismusic]

12 hours ago, adampasz said:

I would call film noir a sub-genre of Crime Drama as well. But I'll admit I'm just making up categories here. My point is that super-hero films have demonstrated an ability to succeed in a wide variety of genres, locales, time periods and narrative forms. With some exceptions, it would be difficult to make the same case about Westerns (or Film Noir for that matter) -- where the specificity of location, time period, and style are part of the appeal.

I was just thinking the exact same thing it be hard to do stories of cowboys traveling back in time to a different era or to the future or have sci fi stuff or science stuff or future stuff, etc... your kind of limited in your scope of stories where super hero and fantasy books can go anywhere fit in anytime etc.. so you have a broader range of stories to tell and more genres to fit them into. 

[thunsicker]

21 minutes ago, XxSpideyxX said:

I agree.  There is something tangible and real about holding the comics and completing a run or set.

That being said, let me ask this

Let's say those comics that you own are worth absolutely nothing in terms of monetary value starting right now.  Would you still add to the collections?  Would you read them differently?  Store them differently?  Would you slab any?  I'm sure you would keep them.  That part is not up for date.  But I doubt you would store them or read them the same way   I think (whether we want to admit it or not) feel some inherent monetary value/investment in our comics.  Despite AND because of our love for them.  

I'm certainly not trying to argue with you because I agree with you fully.  It just matters to me that these comics are worth SOMETHING beyond sentimental value and I hope they at least remain to do so.

If comics were worthless I'd finally start adding to my collection again.  Well that is to say if they were worthless and priced much lower.  I'm a software engineer with a good 6 figure salary and I've been priced out of many of the areas I collect.  The only ones who can afford early Marvels and golden age Schomburg Covers at these prices are truly rich people, people who make the same amount as me but without kids, or people who are 'investing' in comics.

[Krismusic]

1 hour ago, XxSpideyxX said:

There seem to be two independent conversations going on here, and I'm not sure how much they each actually relate to one another.

The first being that superhero movies are a fad in the cinematic genre and will die out to some (large?) degree.  With this sentiment, I tend to agree.  If we look at popular movie genres over the years, there has also been a trend of genre popularity every 10 years or so.  Very generally speaking, cinema saw genres gain and lose popularity every decade since sound entered the picture.  We had romantic comedies in the 30s, film noir in the 40s, westerns in the 50s, rebellion movies in the 60s, disaster films in the 70s, adventure films in the 80s, dramas in the 90s, and superheroes this decade.  Of course, each of these respective genres have continued with spattered success, but nothing like the popularity they experienced in their prime decade.  So yes, I think superhero movies will decrease in popularity starting now.  But I'm not sure we can correlate that to back issues we all own today.  We haven't seen an increase in comic book sales as a result of the increased popularity of superhero films.  We've actually seen the opposite.  What this means (to me) is that the films aren't driving comic sales.  But again, I hope I'm wrong!

I think everyone is forgetting that Superhero movies and TV shows have been around a lot longer than the MCU or DCCU. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_in_film

what about Batman movies with Tim burton 

Spiderman Classic cartoons etc.. 

Yet we still consume super hero movies... we have always consumed them for a long time since movies because a thing. 

[dupont2005]

1 hour ago, XxSpideyxX said:

There seem to be two independent conversations going on here, and I'm not sure how much they each actually relate to one another.

The first being that superhero movies are a fad in the cinematic genre and will die out to some (large?) degree.  With this sentiment, I tend to agree.  If we look at popular movie genres over the years, there has also been a trend of genre popularity every 10 years or so.  Very generally speaking, cinema saw genres gain and lose popularity every decade since sound entered the picture.  We had romantic comedies in the 30s, film noir in the 40s, westerns in the 50s, rebellion movies in the 60s, disaster films in the 70s, adventure films in the 80s, dramas in the 90s, and superheroes this decade.  Of course, each of these respective genres have continued with spattered success, but nothing like the popularity they experienced in their prime decade.  So yes, I think superhero movies will decrease in popularity starting now.  But I'm not sure we can correlate that to back issues we all own today.  We haven't seen an increase in comic book sales as a result of the increased popularity of superhero films.  We've actually seen the opposite.  What this means (to me) is that the films aren't driving comic sales.  But again, I hope I'm wrong!

Super hero movies aren’t increasing print runs of modern monthlies, but they are absolutely fueling speculation of back issues. 

[dupont2005]

2 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

I think everyone is forgetting that Superhero movies and TV shows have been around a lot longer than the MCU or DCCU. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_in_film

what about Batman movies with Tim burton 

Spiderman Classic cartoons etc.. 

Yet we still consume super hero movies... we have always consumed them for a long time since movies because a thing. 

How many super hero movies came out the same decade as Tim Burton’s Batman? It’s not quite the same, and if super hero movies once again became as popular as they were in 1990 it would mean devastation for Hollywood until they found the Next Big Thing 

[Bookery]

50 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

Comics General usually consists of a bunch of rabid people with strong opinions talking past each other.

That's not even remotely true.  In fact, I remember one of the best chocolate milkshakes I ever had was in a little place in a remote small town in Colorado.

[D84]

1 hour ago, XxSpideyxX said:

There seem to be two independent conversations going on here, and I'm not sure how much they each actually relate to one another.

The first being that superhero movies are a fad in the cinematic genre and will die out to some (large?) degree.  With this sentiment, I tend to agree.  If we look at popular movie genres over the years, there has also been a trend of genre popularity every 10 years or so.  Very generally speaking, cinema saw genres gain and lose popularity every decade since sound entered the picture.  We had romantic comedies in the 30s, film noir in the 40s, westerns in the 50s, rebellion movies in the 60s, disaster films in the 70s, adventure films in the 80s, dramas in the 90s, and superheroes this decade.  Of course, each of these respective genres have continued with spattered success, but nothing like the popularity they experienced in their prime decade.  So yes, I think superhero movies will decrease in popularity starting now.  But I'm not sure we can correlate that to back issues we all own today.  We haven't seen an increase in comic book sales as a result of the increased popularity of superhero films.  We've actually seen the opposite.  What this means (to me) is that the films aren't driving comic sales.  But again, I hope I'm wrong!

We are in speculation market because of the movies, so when superhero movies decline, the speculators will move on and prices will come down.

[dupont2005]

12 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

I was just thinking the exact same thing it be hard to do stories of cowboys traveling back in time to a different era or to the future or have sci fi stuff or science stuff or future stuff, etc... your kind of limited in your scope of stories where super hero and fantasy books can go anywhere fit in anytime etc.. so you have a broader range of stories to tell and more genres to fit them into. 

Cowboys + time travel isn’t the only way to add variety to a genre. It’s also not the only way to introduce new settings to a western. Plenty of western flicks were essentially remakes of samurai movies. There’s a different setting right there. There are also modern westerns like True Grit. There’s action westerns, drama westerns, comedy westerns, and even sci fi westerns, like Back To The Future part 2, which also features time traveling cowboys. I’d argue western movies have a greater variety than super heroes at the moment. You can even find westerns that don’t have a single gun fight or any action to speak of. 

[chrisco37]

12 hours ago, Hamlet said:

 

If I am getting bored, when is the general public going to lose interest?

There's what?  Like 8 or 9 Fast & Furious movies.  The general public doesn't appear to lose interest/bore quickly.   

[Aweandlorder]

Comic books became hot and, well, cool when SDCC started becoming "a thing". I was collecting seriously in the 80s and stopped around the crash in the 90s. I remember years later seeing reports about SDCC in regular news channels and thinking, wow, how about that, it's actually cool now to be a geek!

fast forward to today and SDCC along NYCC are the modern day Cannes Film Festival versions announcing new movies and new roles even for movies that are not comic related. 

There are soooo many actors/directors/film makers that showed interest in comic book characters that signaled this new era of comic book "coolness" starting with Tim Burton, Christopher Nolan, many others. 

Comic books will cease to be hot when they stop being cool

[HarrisonJohn]

When I go to book stores I usually see teens sitting on the floor in the graphic novel section. I always have to step over them. They are reading, just not buying the new monthly comics. Which most of us probably aren't doing either. Then there's the digital stuff. It's difficult to know what effect the movies are having because there isn't one place for someone to go and read the material. There's old material, new material, several print GN formats, digital, etc.