Are we at a peak of back issue worth/sales? 6 6

[PopKulture]

7 hours ago, NoMan said:

how can I help my friend with his paperback collection? they are paperbacks in the hard boiled genre and what I call the sleaze genre. Think Orrie Hitt and Clyde Allison

As a paperback guy myself, I agree with an earlier poster: they have to be in condition, there are a handful of hot authors, cover art is still a driving factor, and selling them one at a time will be too onerous. Selling in lots is probably the way to go. You'll lose value but move volume.

I've watched several paperbacks on the Bay for years.  I don't know why I don't delete them from my watchlist. I guess on some level it brings me comfort. When something does sell that's been on my watchlist for months or even years, I naturally get remorseful - "why didn't I buy that??"  

[ComicConnoisseur]

 

 

5 hours ago, paperheart said:

great book, great movie. what are you arguing for? The Big Sleep 2? Ridiculous.

I am going to use this opening to introduce Bogart to some new fans.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by ComicConnoisseur

[ComicConnoisseur]

Yes there was a Bogie comic book.

I think Eclipse put it out.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/bogie/4050-47535/

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 8/9/2019 at 12:53 PM, delekkerste said:

It doesn't break down perfectly (there is some overlap), but, you had the Harry Potters and Twilights and such in-between the '90s dramas and the superhero dominance in the 2010s.  

Films are not driving new comic sales, but, they have absolutely fired up the animal spirits in the back issue market among existing and lapsed readers/collectors.  But, the lack of interest in new comics means less collectors down the road, which is a big problem, as there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the films are a big gateway to creating back issue collectors of vintage comics. 

I wonder if Avengers: Endgame marks the peak of this superhero movie supercycle.  I think it very well might, especially with mostly B and C list properties dominating the announced film slate for the next few years - it's hard to see any of these films doing anywhere near the kind of business that Endgame did. 

Gene that is an easy one to debunk.   Avengers vs X-men movie will break Endgame's record!

[Mr bla bla]

5 hours ago, NewWorldOrder said:

Gene that is an easy one to debunk.   Avengers vs X-men movie will break Endgame's record!

I agree. Endgame is just the beginning. The problem with the doom and gloom in the above thread is, that we have heard it all before, constantly recurring since around 2002 up till today: 'Finally now is the time when the crash is imminent or upon us'. This message has been repeated here on the boards endlessly the last 20 years.

My humble opinion is this:

The majority of western people today have sadly lost their (christian?) religious reference a long time ago. But the human psyche is off course still marked by the eternal craving for that which is larger than man. Larger than life. On this point Jack Kirby was off course right. When old gods die, we inevitably go looking for new gods. Its human nature. Go read Grant Morrisons elaboration on this in his superb novel 'Supergods'. Some find their gods in science some find them in imaginary fiction. As our world sinks further into egoism and chaos and our common values threatens to dissolve, this will drive the need for the imaginary icon of the superhero ushering in a new dawn of hope for mankind. We simply need heroes. That is part of the explanation of the Endgame boxoffice figs. Modern entertainment is the luxury bestowed upon us for two hours in the cinema together to dream the dream of something greater and more heroic.   

I see that we are just now at the threshold of the new streaming reality. The entire MCU will over the next decade be brought to live through an array of "seasons" exploring already classic story arcs from comics. and combining these in new arcs. The movie consumers on a global scale have apparently embraced the MCU completely, old and young. This MCU pantheon of good gods and evil gods have unfolded the last 50 years on paper. The next 50 years it has a chance of comming alive through streaming, reaching a huge, huge ordiance. And ultimately further out timewise we are looking at the next chapter in the evolution of the MCU: new interactive technology. 

 

[october]

8 hours ago, PopKulture said:

Man, that's a great example! 54 Bowman Williams or Crackerjack Jackson make your cut?   

Would love a Jackson, but out of my price range.

[1Cool]

54 minutes ago, Mr bla bla said:

I agree. Endgame is just the beginning. The problem with the doom and gloom in the above thread is, that we have heard it all before, constantly recurring since around 2002 up till today: 'Finally now is the time when the crash is imminent or upon us'. This message has been repeated here on the boards endlessly the last 20 years.

My humble opinion is this:

The majority of western people today have sadly lost their (christian?) religious reference a long time ago. But the human psyche is off course still marked by the eternal craving for that which is larger than man. Larger than life. On this point Jack Kirby was off course right. When old gods die, we inevitably go looking for new gods. Its human nature. Go read Grant Morrisons elaboration on this in his superb novel 'Supergods'. Some find their gods in science some find them in imaginary fiction. As our world sinks further into egoism and chaos and our common values threatens to dissolve, this will drive the need for the imaginary icon of the superhero ushering in a new dawn of hope for mankind. We simply need heroes. That is part of the explanation of the Endgame boxoffice figs. Modern entertainment is the luxury bestowed upon us for two hours in the cinema together to dream the dream of something greater and more heroic.   

I see that we are just now at the threshold of the new streaming reality. The entire MCU will over the next decade be brought to live through an array of "seasons" exploring already classic story arcs from comics. and combining these in new arcs. The movie consumers on a global scale have apparently embraced the MCU completely, old and young. This MCU pantheon of good gods and evil gods have unfolded the last 50 years on paper. The next 50 years it has a chance of comming alive through streaming, reaching a huge, huge ordiance. And ultimately further out timewise we are looking at the next chapter in the evolution of the MCU: new interactive technology. 

 

I don't have a clue what you are talking about in terms of back issues of physical comics being sold.  I don't think comics or the comic book heroes are going anywhere but will that translate into people clammering for those X-Men 137s?  Some people who read a digital comic book will become collectors because they desire the actual comic but without an imprint from when they were kids those numbers typically are very small.  The MCU empire has grown vastly over the years but the number of copies being sold has not skyrocketed and dropped like a rock compared to the 90s when there was no MCU. 

[kidcolt]

Last night I was chatting with a buddy who owns a store and does some shows. He said that he experienced a nice rise in sales in the past years due to the movies. He said he still had his regular weekly and monthly hard core old time collectors but he seen a nice addition of new collectors that was 20-30 years old. He said it was people caught up in the hype from the movies. He said they only wanted keys and first appearances, they weren't looking for runs or anything new just keys and mini series that tied into the movies. He said over the past 6 months that has all but dried up and now it's just the hard core older collectors buying. He also mentioned that during the movie hype years he also seen a big rise in people buying multiple copies of the same book, people trying to invest. He said people also would ask about other first appearances that MIGHT turn into a movie or Netflix show. He said that has dried up as well, just his regular collectors now. He figures in another 6 months to a year he will see a lot of those movie and Netflix hype collectors selling off the comics they bought, he said he has already had people inquiry with him if he is looking to buy their books.

Edited August 14, 2019 by kidcolt

[Bookery]

13 hours ago, HouseofComics.Com said:

That really surprises me about Great Gatsby considering Fitzgerald was a well-established author at the time he published that. Didn't think people would be throwing it away, especially since it became very popular only 20 years later.

It's the dust-jacket that's rare.  Jackets are generally scarce from most books from that period (we're closing in on 100 years now), and very rare in high grade.  Jackets were literally designed to keep the book dust-free and fresh while it sat on the shelves of the bookshop.  Early turn-of-the-century jackets were quite plain... but soon publishers learned they could attract attention with cover art, and they could use the backs and jacket flaps for advertising.  Once bought, many readers just removed and discarded the jacket.  That's why a 1st edition of Tarzan of the Apes will fetch around $1500 or so... but if it has a nice original jacket... $50,000.

[Bookery]

1 hour ago, Mr bla bla said:

The problem with the doom and gloom in the above thread is, that we have heard it all before, constantly recurring since around 2002 up till today: 'Finally now is the time when the crash is imminent or upon us'. This message has been repeated here on the boards endlessly the last 20 years.

And those that repeat it have been endlessly correct (except that no one ever mentions the word "crash" except those accusing others of saying it).  In the '40s and '50s there were comic issues selling over 1-million copies per month with a population half of what it is today.  In the '60s 200,000 - 500,000 copies was the norm.  Today -- most comic issues don't have enough readership to fill a baseball stadium.  Crash?  No... but a slow inevitable decline, accelerated in recent years by an overall abandonment of paper collectibles.  It has nothing to do with doom and gloom.  Comics simply are not immune to the patterns that have always affected pop-culture collectibles.  And that's what we're talking about.  Hard physical paper copies.  People say the market is strong (hard to imagine with a 95% drop in sales over the decades) and then mention how movies and streaming will continue on.  So what?  Nobody is saying fiction will die out.  Of course people will seek out entertainment heroes.  It just won't be in physical books, magazines, or comics down the road.

[Krismusic]

15 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Here is a great example of what I am alluding to.

I would definitely pick AF#15 over the Mickey Mantle rookie card for the same reasons in that Spider-Man is making millions of new fans every year while Mantle`s audience is aging and dying off.

In about a little in over a year`s time all three of these were big hits with mainstream audiences introducing millions of new Spider-Man fans for new generations.

   

 

with Mickey Mantle nothing big and new happened.Mantle just doesn`t have the juice to compete with Spider-Man. Just nostalgia with the old audience that watched him play in the 1950s and 1960s. Once that old audience fades so will Mantle`s popularity.

This is why superheroes like Batman and Spider-Man are the best bets because they don't stagnate and continually update for the new modern audiences.

So that`s the key to Marvel and DC characters because they kept their characters in the public eye better than just about anyone else has.

I totally agree, I ask some of my family members even the older ones if they know who spiderman or batman or superman are and they all know who that character is they might not know the story but they can describe them or refer to how they know them this is because Spiderman, batman or superman have become a household name and are kept in the publics eye through many different mediums, clothes, party décor, TV, Movies, comics, toys, etc... and most of my older generation family didn't have much access to the mediums that these characters appeared on but because these characters are in the public eye they know who they are. I think this will play a huge part into the longevity of the hobby. 

[EastEnd1]

I've been hearing the doom and gloom arguments since the 1980s.  Back when I first discovered comic shops in NY in the 1970s, the typical shop devoted 90% of their floor space to back issues and maybe 10% to new issues.  By 1990, that floor space allocation had largely reversed, quite a few shops having given up on selling back issues entirely.  And I remember all the panic then that the back issue market would be gone in a few years.  And yet here we are nearly thirty years later and the back issue market has somehow survived this downturn and a few others as well.  In fact, I'm not sure that the back issue market has ever been stronger, at least not since I've been collecting.

For me, the back issue crash will come only when the superhero itself loses popularity.  Regardless of the medium that keeps the superhero popular (whether it be comic books, movies, tv shows, video games, holographics, or what ever unforeseen medium emerges in the future), there will always be a sizable enough population of fandom that will gravitate to the original source material because the superhero was birthed in comic books and is synonymous with them.  For these people, the required nostalgic element that will drive them to the back issues is the superhero itself, not the comic book.  I also think the long established and fairly measurable market for back issues will provide the glue to keep them there for a good long time.  Once you discover it, it's just A LOT of fun to play in the back issue market, even if you didn't read a lot of comics as a kid.

Anyway, that's just my two cents... I'm really not worried at all about the comic back issue market evaporating in my lifetime.  Then again, I'm nearly 56 now so my horizon may not be as long as others !!

[jason4]

1 hour ago, Krishosein said:

I totally agree, I ask some of my family members even the older ones if they know who spiderman or batman or superman are and they all know who that character is they might not know the story but they can describe them or refer to how they know them this is because Spiderman, batman or superman have become a household name and are kept in the publics eye through many different mediums, clothes, party décor, TV, Movies, comics, toys, etc... and most of my older generation family didn't have much access to the mediums that these characters appeared on but because these characters are in the public eye they know who they are. I think this will play a huge part into the longevity of the hobby. 

True but for yankee fans even young adult yankee fans mickey mantle is huge. Babe ruth is still expensive probably more now than ever. There are some baseball players that will transcend generations. Not to the level of spiderman but to a certain degree a signed mantle ball will hold its value for a loooong time imo. 

[justafan]

16 hours ago, ninanina said:

We had a similar thread  about 10 - 15 years ago about a similar subject, it was mostly are we at the tail end of collecting. This was right around the time when movies based on super heroes initially started. I remember some mentioning after 3 or 4 years it will die off and so will comics. I'll say what I said 10 years ago, there will always be something that drives this hobby. Ten - fifteen years ago, it was the movies that helped kick start the hobby after the '90's crash and now I can say Disney will push it for years to come. I don't think there is anything to worry about back issues being in demand. They'll go up, they'll go down but as long as Disney is driving these characters no worries. How long before DC and Marvel Characters appear in the same movie. So much can be done. And now, Disney has their own channel. They are going to have to fill up the hours with something more than re-runs. How long before we see some of the original Disney characters dress up as Super Heroes on Saturday morning. There's our next generation.

So what's next after you've completely depleted/rebooted the characters in film and TV? 

Best I can think of is some hot crazy new fully submersible social video game in VR like WoW meets mine craft meets fortnite meets SIMS/Lego superheroes where you can BE the characters, team up and fight villains in a choose your own adventure "what-ifs" or based on classic SA/BA/CA/MA stories and cross over events.  Imagine a VR game with additional sensor attachments where you can look down at your appendages and see yourself as spider-man (shooting webs, swinging through NY first person view), wolverine (going snikt and cutting down mercs), punisher (wielding gun and shooting down drug dealers) and team up story mode, multiplayer melee, etc.  Imagine a what-if creative mode where you can choose NOT to get rid of the alien symbiot and allow it to bond to you.  OR save Gwen's life and kill GG.  Or Hulk Smash through just about anything.  Can someone create this already?

Now I can see that reviving and propping up comics for another decade or 2 if it is awesome enough and captures enough of the youth.

[Mr bla bla]

2 hours ago, Krishosein said:

I totally agree, I ask some of my family members even the older ones if they know who spiderman or batman or superman are and they all know who that character is they might not know the story but they can describe them or refer to how they know them this is because Spiderman, batman or superman have become a household name and are kept in the publics eye through many different mediums, clothes, party décor, TV, Movies, comics, toys, etc... and most of my older generation family didn't have much access to the mediums that these characters appeared on but because these characters are in the public eye they know who they are. I think this will play a huge part into the longevity of the hobby. 

Yes. Because the keys will be even further elevated into stratospheric fame and will transcend the hobby. And the keys will pull up the surrounding run books to a certain extend.

[Mr bla bla]

1 hour ago, EastEnd1 said:

I've been hearing the doom and gloom arguments since the 1980s.  Back when I first discovered comic shops in NY in the 1970s, the typical shop devoted 90% of their floor space to back issues and maybe 10% to new issues.  By 1990, that floor space allocation had largely reversed, quite a few shops having given up on selling back issues entirely.  And I remember all the panic then that the back issue market would be gone in a few years.  And yet here we are nearly thirty years later and the back issue market has somehow survived this downturn and a few others as well.  In fact, I'm not sure that the back issue market has ever been stronger, at least not since I've been collecting.

For me, the back issue crash will come only when the superhero itself loses popularity.  Regardless of the medium that keeps the superhero popular (whether it be comic books, movies, tv shows, video games, holographics, or what ever unforeseen medium emerges in the future), there will always be a sizable enough population of fandom that will gravitate to the original source material because the superhero was birthed in comic books and is synonymous with them.  For these people, the required nostalgic element that will drive them to the back issues is the superhero itself, not the comic book.  I also think the long established and fairly measurable market for back issues will provide the glue to keep them there for a good long time.  Once you discover it, it's just A LOT of fun to play in the back issue market, even if you didn't read a lot of comics as a kid.

Anyway, that's just my two cents... I'm really not worried at all about the comic back issue market evaporating in my lifetime.  Then again, I'm nearly 56 now so my horizon may not be as long as others !!

Exactly. Digital will lead the way. But this development will infuse the comicbooks with relevance.

like when we heard that netflix daredevil season 2 is based on the Miller run. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 hour ago, jason4 said:

True but for yankee fans even young adult yankee fans mickey mantle is huge. Babe ruth is still expensive probably more now than ever. There are some baseball players that will transcend generations. Not to the level of spiderman but to a certain degree a signed mantle ball will hold its value for a loooong time imo. 

Right now the Derek Jeter rookie is selling more in volume than the Mantle rookie. Sportscards are more fickle than comic books with the Jordan and LeBron rookies more in demand than the Russell or Chamberlin rookies. The Tom Brady rookie is much more sought after than the Joe Namath rookie.

In sports it`s what have you done for me lately more than being iconic.

Some Mike Trout rookie cards go for more than some DiMaggio and Ted Williams cards now.

Mantle is famous because he played in New York,but if you take a look at his youtube views he is fading fast compared to Spider-Man youtube views.

Why is that important? Youtube views like google searches show if there is demand. Heck, Elvis Presley has way more demand than the Mick. A lot of old skool baseball card collectors are going to be in for some disappointing sales in 10 to 20 years when they try to unload those Mantles. That will be the opposite for Spider-Man keys as he continues to grow his fanbase.

A long term bet is someday that Jackie Robinson rookie will be worth more than the famous Topps Mickey Mantle card.  I am not saying now but in a few decades.

Edited August 14, 2019 by ComicConnoisseur

[ComicConnoisseur]

58 minutes ago, Mr bla bla said:

Yes. Because the keys will be even further elevated into stratospheric fame and will transcend the hobby.

It`s all about the keys in comics just like in sportscards it`s all about the rookie cards.

Most everybody rather have Incredible Hulk #181 than a run of Incredible Hulk #102 to #179 and Incredible Hulk #183 to #300.

Edited August 14, 2019 by ComicConnoisseur

[Hollywood1892]

1 hour ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Right now the Derek Jeter rookie is selling more in volume than the Mantle rookie. 

Is it not because its cheaper?

I stopped collecting sports cards the year Vince Carter's upper deck something or other came out,same with Topps Finest or chrome

It became utter nonsense to pay 10k for an unproven RC of a player just drafted

The difference between sports cards and comics are a players performance versus a characters popularity

It's easier to predict spec value on a comic than it would be on a potential phenom coming into the league

Patrik Stefan vs Miles Morales

I had a Stevie Franchise RC that is probably a common now

Same with Stephon Marbury or Elton Brand

Or that guy who went to Portland first overall years ago

At least superheros dont develop bad knees or get torn ACLs

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Is it not because its cheaper?

I stopped collecting sports cards the year Vince Carter's upper deck something or other came out,same with Topps Finest or chrome

It became utter nonsense to pay 10k for an unproven RC of a player just drafted

The difference between sports cards and comics are a players performance versus a characters popularity

It's easier to predict spec value on a comic than it would be on a potential phenom coming into the league

Patrik Stefan vs Miles Morales

I had a Stevie Franchise RC that is probably a common now

Same with Stephon Marbury or Elton Brand

Or that guy who went to Portland first overall years ago

At least superheros dont develop bad knees or get torn ACLs

I hear what you are saying, but honestly you could make a lot more money selling hot rookie sportscards quick. Think of rookie modern sports cards as Walking Dead #1 on steroids. Think of when those Zion Williamson rookie cards hit in late October/early November. Some people who play it right will buy new cars for selling those Zion rookies. That is a normal thing every year in sportscards if you get the right modern rookie cards.

CC

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by ComicConnoisseur