Two of our own headline Video Game collecting article 1 1

[Bronty]

2 minutes ago, october said:

Aren't there gold and silver grades, or "+" or something? Not super familiar with VGA, but saw enough to know that it's not an intuitive as Wata's scale. 

85+ and up was the start of 'gold' grades yes.   that just meant the holographic sticker was gold (thissun's nice, podner).

the + grades are the half grades I mentioned earlier.

[Bronty]

Just now, comicwiz said:

FWIW the grading scale made complete sense to me. What matters much more is the qualifications of the people grading, particularly when it comes to authenticating prototypes. I know practically nothing about Wata in this regard, and would only trust VGA.

I'd say both parties are credible graders but if you require 'qualifications' of a game-centric variety frankly WATA has more of that.   VGA certainly has more toy related expertise which you will be comfortable with from your toy collecting.

[comicwiz]

11 minutes ago, Bronty said:

well I'll be honest, that 'investigation' was a joke, #1, and I wouldn't repeat it or link it.. I think you'd do well to delete the link, but do what you want.

You and I know that, HOWEVER that "investigation" stuck with VGA for a very long time, well after the PCA auctions, and the PCA auctions were used to continue to deligitimize VGA due to their snug relationship with AFA, CIB, Brian Toys, etc.

Look, that link is absolutely crucial in understanding the history of video game grading. To think Wata can come around and bypass a lot of the scrutiny for the same things VGA was facing in it's early inception is my point. They don't get a pass with me, not that easy.

Edited August 13, 2019 by comicwiz

[Bronty]

14 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

Look, that link is absolutely crucial in understanding the history of video game grading. 

No, its really not, I'm sorry.    That may be your perception and perhaps there are good reasons for your perception from the toy collector side of the fence, but I've been on the game collector side of the fence since way before vga existed and no one on this side of the fence ever cared about that 'investigation' for more than five minutes.  Honestly. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Bronty

[comicwiz]

33 minutes ago, Bronty said:

No, its really not, I'm sorry.    I've been in the market from day one and other collectors never really gave a about that obviously biased farce.

This thread originally posted an article which is about as much to do with cross-over collecting, and collecting memories as it is about speculating what the next big hobby payday will be. Within the first few paragraphs, it mentions that comic/art guys are coming to video game collecting. It uses two comic collectors as examples.

This isn't limited to Wata, that cross-over has happened with VGA, and we aren't just talking about Star Wars when you are talking about AFA - they grade thousands of toys each week from hundreds of different toy lines, both modern and vintage. They've been doing this since they were founded, and that's before even CGC opened its doors.

Moreover, that cross-over facet was more readily possible with VGA, and why you are overlooking that fact I'm not sure, but that no grade investigation signifies an important aspect of market health, and that is market resistence.

Whether it's unjustified or not is something only time will incorruptibly determine.

You can ignore the facts and revise history by propping-up a new grader to give video game collecting a well deserved boost, but what you deem as an advantage Wata has over VGA (who only offered a service, and didn't do anything to grow the hobby) is a blatant misread on how others perceive the situation.

It could well be a honeymoon phase for video game people to support a new grader, and even a welcome entry for healthier compeition, but there isn't any compelling reason for me to see them offering something VGA hasn't already offered.

Edited August 13, 2019 by comicwiz

[Bronty]

2 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

This thread originally posted an article which is about as much to do with cross-over collecting, and collecting memories as it is about speculating what the next big hobby payday will be. Within the first few paragraphs, it mentions that comic/art guys are coming to video game collecting. It uses two comic collectors as examples.

This isn't limited to Wata, that cross-over has happened with VGA, and we aren't just talking about Star Wars when you are talking about AFA - they grade thousands of toys each week from hundreds of different toy lines, both modern and vintage. They've been doing this since they were founded, and that's before even CGC opened its doors.

Moreover, that cross-over facet was more readily possible with VGA, and why you are overlooking that fact I'm not sure, but that no grade investigation signifies an important aspect of market health, and that is market resistence.

Whether it's unjustified or not is something only time will incorruptibly determine.

You can ignore the facts and revise history by propping-up a new grader to give video game collecting a well deserved boost, but what you deem as an advantage Wata has over VGA (who only offered a service, and didn't do anything to grow the hobby) is a blatant misread on how others perceive the situation.

It could well be a honeymoon phase for video game people to support a new grader, and even a welcome entry for healthier compeition, but there isn't any compelling reason for me to see them offering something VGA hasn't already offered.

that's a lot of typing for amounts to what I said already   the service isn't all that much different but the outreach wata did was 100x better.

 

[comicwiz]

8 minutes ago, Bronty said:

that's a lot of typing for amounts to what I said already   the service isn't all that much different but the outreach wata did was 100x better.

 

But you never did any toy grading - how would you know about outreach? CGA/AFA have been promoting video game grading for as long as I can remember. This is the part I don't get. Wata does a couple of press releases, announcing they are partnering with an auction company and consignor, and they automatically have done more.

Edited August 13, 2019 by comicwiz

[Bronty]

13 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

But you never did any toy grading - how would you know about outreach? AFA has been promoting video game grading for as long as I can remember. This is the part I don't get. Wata does a couple of press releases, announcing they are partnering with an auction company and consignor, and they automatically have done more.

Well.

The 'history of game grading' since you wanted to go down that road, is that a collector I was friends with bought a lot of material from Tom Derby when he was at Cloud City.   Now his trust fund ran out, so Tom actually had to sue him for some payments not received, but not before Tom saw how much money my old buddy was spending on games.   So it dawned on Tom that this might be a new service for AFA to provide.

Tom reached out to Bucky and myself and so the lists I had finished writing a few months before on what seals came with what titles were the initial authentication reference for Tom/VGA to look at when games were submitted.    I provided them with help on tricky authentication issues for many years.     A large chunk of the inventory Brian's Toys purchased when they tried to get into games was from me.   

So, I say this from having witnessed all of it first hand.   Wata has simply done a better job in that regard.   They have gone out to conventions and marketed with purpose and effectiveness and got people to buy in.   The results speak for themselves.     Yes, VGA sent threw a picture or two up on that 1995-fresh website, but nothing much beyond that.   As much as I like the guys, they don't know games very well.  Their expertise is toys.   How are they supposed to speak with passion and purpose on material which they can grade, yes, but don't even know what they are looking at sometimes?

I can go grade star wars toys and be taught to do it within a week, I bet.    Doesn't mean I know shiz about them or can explain to anyone else why they should collect them when I don't even collect them myself.   How can you market something you don't really understand?

Edited August 13, 2019 by Bronty

[comicwiz]

15 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Well.

The 'history of game grading' since you wanted to go down that road, is that a collector I was friends with bought a lot of material from Tom Derby when he was at Cloud City.   Now his trust fund ran out, so Tom actually had to sue him for some payments not received, but not before Tom saw how much money my old buddy was spending on games.   So it dawned on Tom that this might be a new service for AFA to provide.

Tom reached out to Bucky and myself and so the lists I had finished writing a few months before on what seals came with what titles were the initial authentication reference for Tom/VGA to look at when games were submitted.    I provided them with help on tricky authentication issues for many years.     A large chunk of the inventory Brian's Toys when they tried to get into games was from me.   

So, I say this from having witnessed all of it first hand.   Wata has simply done a better job in that regard.   They have gone out to conventions and marketed with purpose and effectiveness and got people to buy in.   The results speak for themselves.     Yes, VGA sent threw a picture or two up on that 1995-fresh website, but nothing much beyond that.   As much as I like the guys, they don't know games very well.  Their expertise is toys.   How are they supposed to speak with passion and purposes on material which they can grade, yes, but don't even know what they are looking at sometimes?

I can go grade star wars toys and be taught to do it within a week, I bet.    Doesn't mean I know shiz about them or can explain to anyone else why they should collect them when I don't even collect them myself.

Thanks for sharing that Dan. This makes more sense to me from the point of view of ramping-up a company for grading specialty items.

On the point about setting-up toy grading, an imposter grader (I can't find it within myself to even mention them) to AFA decided to reach out to collectors in their specific areas of specialty/expertise when setting-up their company. The community saw it as a more grassroots-driven offering to replace AFA's "complacency", since these were collectors known to the community, but to say the delivery has been underwhelming would be an understatement.

Glaring mistake after mistake can be seen popping-up every few weeks on Facebook. This was a company built from the ground up from guys that should know all the cultural issues of that market segment, and in less than two years of operating, they have already been caught grading fakes and mislabelled some high caliber pieces.

This kind of thing would never happen with AFA, because of their rejection policy and process. The stuff not regularly seen always passes through Tom.

I'm sure it happens that there will be items that trip up a grader. I've seen it happen with the most experienced and seasoned collectors.

I'm curious to hear what WATA's ramp-up involved (if you're able to share). It's become evident in all the years I've been collecting that you can't clone specialty and expertise, and there will always be one person who has the abilities that cannot be scaled or replicated for a wide range of reasons.

Edited August 13, 2019 by comicwiz

[Domo Arigato]

2 hours ago, Bronty said:

...the service isn't all that much different but the outreach wata did was 100x better.

 

@Bronty

Hey Bronty........I know very little about the graded video game market, but I do have a couple of sealed original PS1 games I would like to get grade for myself.   Does one of the two companies have a better holder than the other?

Also, at this point in the game, which company would you recommend (or would personally use yourself) if you had to choose one over the other?  

[Bronty]

I’ll pm you

[Guardian Comics]

That article makes it seem that video game collecting and video grading is a new phenomenon when that couldn't be farther from the truth.  This piece is an advertisement for WATA disguised as an article.  The first person to congratulate the article and it's participants in this thread is even a member of "Wata Advisory Board"

If you are okay with the $101,500 Super Mario Bros cartridge sale, well that is totally up to you.  Just let it be known that the seller of that cartridge is a member of the "WATA Advisory Board", then it was graded by WATA and then it was sold to a consortium of "collectors" who are also on the "WATA Advisory Board".  You can take that for whatever it is worth.  

https://www.watagames.com/who-we-are

 

 

Jim

Edited August 14, 2019 by Guardian Comics

[jharvey]

21 hours ago, Bronty said:

Nah the retail boards are well built.   

Prototype boards are less stable.

What about Nintendo cartridges with batteries inside them? Won't the battery eventually corrode and ruin the cartridge unless you tear open the shrink wrap, crack open the cartridge, and replace the battery?

[comicwiz]

46 minutes ago, Guardian Comics said:

That article makes it seem that video game collecting and video grading is a new phenomenon when that couldn't be farther from the truth.  This piece is an advertisement for WATA disguised as an article.  The first person to congratulate the article and it's participants in this thread is even a member of "Wata Advisory Board"

If you are okay with the $101,500 Super Mario Bros cartridge sale, well that is totally up to you.  Just let it be known that the seller of that cartridge is a member of the "WATA Advisory Board", then it was graded by WATA and then it was sold to a consortium of "collectors" who are also on the "WATA Advisory Board".  You can take that for whatever it is worth.  

https://www.watagames.com/who-we-are

As well can somebody who is very close to Danielle approach her and tell her to please be careful.  A couple of weeks ago she posted pictures on Instagram or FB of boxes with her home address all over them, and with this information in the article, she's putting a target on herself, and I'm genuinely worried for her.  

 

Jim

I was hoping for a bit more transparency yesterday, and felt I politely broached some of the main issues I saw, and do agree with everything you said. Then I see an " axe to grind" comment and I figured I was overstepping boundaries. Frankly, I try to maintain respect on the boards with long-standing members as best I can , but this is one of those situation where a spade needed to be called a spade. Thanks for posting Jim.

Edited August 14, 2019 by comicwiz

[Bronty]

2 hours ago, Guardian Comics said:

That article makes it seem that video game collecting and video grading is a new phenomenon when that couldn't be farther from the truth.  This piece is an advertisement for WATA disguised as an article.  The first person to congratulate the article and it's participants in this thread is even a member of "Wata Advisory Board"

If you are okay with the $101,500 Super Mario Bros cartridge sale, well that is totally up to you.  Just let it be known that the seller of that cartridge is a member of the "WATA Advisory Board", then it was graded by WATA and then it was sold to a consortium of "collectors" who are also on the "WATA Advisory Board".  You can take that for whatever it is worth.  

https://www.watagames.com/who-we-are

 

 

Jim

Yes.   And perhaps before we concoct any conspiracy theories, it would be helpful for you to know that I turned down a higher offer (105k) from a single collector I've know for close to twenty years who has nothing to do with any of that?

I chose the lower offer because one offer came with promoting the hobby at large, and one didn't, so I chose the lower offer to promote a hobby I care about, but make no mistake that I was getting six figures either way to let it leave my house.    I'm not sure why people love conspiracy theories so much

As for Danielle, perhaps a pm would draw less attention to info being public if what you're trying to protect her from info being public.    I've texted Adam but in the meantime if you could delete that part of your post, it would be helpful.

Btw Jim, still into White Mountains?

(as an aside, the white mountain OO/hoarder had a few valuable sealed NES games so there are a few 'white mountain' NES games). 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Bronty

[ComicConnoisseur]

Two things of note.

Nintendo of the 1980s and early 1990s was the new Marvel Age for that generation.

Playstation 1 videogames are starting to heat up like Resident Evil and Tomb Raider. The 1990s generation has arrived as players in the collectibles field.

I had a few big time nostalgia dealers tell me that 1950s and 1960s stuff has slowed way down and it`s the 1980s and 1990s stuff that is in more demand.

Pokemon, Jurassic Park and Power Ranger stuff is way more popular than 1950s and 1960s ips.

So more people are buying Pokemon than I Love Lucy stuff.

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by ComicConnoisseur

[Bronty]

Makes sense, really.  1950s are sooo long ago.   As cool as some of that stuff is.  

Has to have a connection to the present to have ‘heat’.   

So 50s Batman is one thing, 50s I love Lucy...  yikes

Edited August 14, 2019 by Bronty

[awakeintheashes]

7 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Two things of note.

Nintendo of the 1980s and early 1990s was the new Marvel Age for that generation.

Playstation 1 videogames are starting to heat up like Resident Evil and Tomb Raider. The 1990s generation has arrived as players in the collectibles field.

I had a few big time nostalgia dealers tell me that 1950s and 1960s stuff has slowed way down and it`s the 1980s and 1990s stuff that is in more demand.

Pokemon, Jurassic Park and Power Ranger stuff is way more popular than 1950s and 1960s ips.

So more people are buying Pokemon than I Love Lucy stuff.

 

The PS1 interest is understandable. Is there a similar interest in N64 material from the same time period? Lot of memories wrapped up in Goldeneye, Ocarina of Time and Super Mario 64...

[Bronty]

^ yes

 

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/goldeneye-007-n64-nintendo-1997-wata-94-a-seal-rating-variant-red-label/a/7211-92219.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Edited August 14, 2019 by Bronty

[ComicConnoisseur]

15 minutes ago, awakeintheashes said:

N64 material from the same time period?

Absolutely! All that stuff is starting to take off. That generation has come of age and has disposable income.

This was my game back than.