What to do when you receive a CGC 9.8 really isn't a 9.8? 1 1

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, Xenosmilus said:

My  on Mint and GEM Mint besides condition that needs to be considered are centering and coloring among other things (that are not coming to kind now). Oh, there is something else that comes to mind...If you can "see" the page behind it, it's not a 9.9. or 10!!!! Is that one way you can tell a press???

You mean the edge of the page?

[Xenosmilus]

13 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You mean the edge of the page?

I meant this. The fact you can see the "print" on the next page, as in the HULK lettering. It should take the grade down a FULL grade. It's just my.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Xenosmilus

[RockMyAmadeus]

13 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

I meant this. The fact you can see the "print" on the next page, as in the HULK lettering. It should take the grade down a FULL grade. It's just my.

What do you mean by "FULL" grade? That would mean an otherwise NM book would be VF? Or a 9.4 book would be 9.2?

Either way, you're going to find it difficult to get people to agree. That's merely an artifact of 1. the paper the comic industry used for 60+ years (read: junk) and 2. the result of the confines of a slab.

[Xenosmilus]

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Either way, you're going to find it difficult to get people to agree. That's merely an artifact of 1. the paper the comic industry used for 60+ years (read: junk) and 2. the result of the confines of a slab.

I'm not disagareeing with your statement. Just saying, any of us in reality would pick the book where the HULK font was a solid WHITE if there was a choice. It should be a consideration in grading...It probably never will though.

[kav]

4 hours ago, Xenosmilus said:

I initially started this thread to vent!  I have mentioned this  a few times already but I’ll be a little more descriptive now.  There is a color break in the spine that can be seen in the photo. What can’t been seen in the photo (which I tried to take a photo of but it just doesn’t show up) is a very dramatic fold  (maybe 1/2 inch) that has a direct line of contact with the color break and is very apparent if you looking at this in person. This should not be a 9.8 was my point, not even close. The seller has not returned my email for a return after 4 days now even though they said they take returns. At first I wasn’t too upset (more disappointed) but the fact he hasn’t replied back is a little unsettling. I also realize that some times each of us, myself included, just look at the grading number and accept it, which may be the case with this seller. But I don’t know because they have not responded!  I realize that no grading process is perfect .  However this was just belatedly bad grading.  Not even close to a 9.8.  If I was the seller of this book I would mention it in the description. 

I think we all can appreciate the disappointment we feel when you see a major defect in a book that isn’t apparent in a photo of a book we buy online...

merely open a return case where you click on contact seller.  oh he'll respond then.  

[kav]

53 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Ten thousand times, yes.

Those of us who spent thousands of hours, combing through stacks of brand new books, picking out absolute perfection...getting the same 9.8 grades that books with a single color break gets, or 3 tiny spine indentation, or a single thumb dent.

Incredibly frustrating. More books that CGC will never, ever see unless they figure it out.

When they instituted the new submission system, they had the option to pre-screen at 9.9...a change, or so I thought...they've since removed it.

Sorry, folks, until you lighten up...a book with a flaw that it TAKES A 10X LOUPE TO SEE CLEARLY is a 9.9.

 

Do you mean they are refusing to be 9.9s?

[newshane]

58 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Ten thousand times, yes.

Those of us who spent thousands of hours, combing through stacks of brand new books, picking out absolute perfection...getting the same 9.8 grades that books with a single color break gets, or 3 tiny spine indentation, or a single thumb dent.

Incredibly frustrating. More books that CGC will never, ever see unless they figure it out.

When they instituted the new submission system, they had the option to pre-screen at 9.9...a change, or so I thought...they've since removed it.

Sorry, folks, until you lighten up...a book with a flaw that it TAKES A 10X LOUPE TO SEE CLEARLY is a 9.9.

 

[newshane]

46 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

I meant this. The fact you can see the "print" on the next page, as in the HULK lettering. It should take the grade down a FULL grade. It's just my.

 

No. 

That's absolutely normal. 

I recommend The Overstreet Guide to Grading Comics. 

They don't line up perfectly with CGC's unpublished standards, but Overstreet's guidelines have been around much longer, and it seems to be the reference point for most dealers of raw comics. 

From there, you can start to figure out the differences as you buy more and more slabs. Make the appropriate mental adjustments, send in a few pre-screens or subs, and take notice of what happens. Over a few years, you will hone your skills to the point where you can land within at least a full point, if not a half a point, of where it will land in Sarasota. 

Follow the link below and invest the time and money. It's a great reference. 

Available at Amazon

[newshane]

RE: Overstreet Guide...they should make an electronic version with ultra-high res scans of their examples. The ability to zoom in and out would be so very helpful. My decaying vision makes it difficult for me to see the fine details on the page. 

[kav]

9 minutes ago, newshane said:

if they gave out 9.9s like some people want, then they wouldnt be worth squat for the moderns that are being submitted-then people would vent about the 10.0s they dont get-

[Xenosmilus]

1 minute ago, newshane said:

No. 

That's absolutely normal. 

I recommend The Overstreet Guide to Grading Comics. 

They don't line up perfectly with CGC's unpublished standards, but Overstreet's guidelines have been around much longer, and it seems to be the reference point for most dealers of raw comics. 

From there, you can start to figure out the differences as you buy more and more slabs. Make the appropriate mental adjustments, send in a few pre-screens or subs, and take notice of what happens. Over a few years, you will hone your skills to the point where you can land within at least a full point, if not a half a point, of where it will land in Sarasota. 

Follow the link below and invest the time and money. It's a great reference. 

Available at Amazon

Normal has nothing to do with it. If you had the same books side by side, except for the "see through pages" for lack of a better definition. anyone of us would pick the copy with the solid white fonts (I believe). That should be part of what "we" are paying for. Again, just my  and things I look at when making a purchase.

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 minutes ago, newshane said:

Don't get me wrong...I'm not one of those blokes who says "Garr, I submit 9.8s, and they keep coming back 7.5s!!!"

I've gotten quite literally thousands of 9.8s. Thousands. Several hundred of which can be seen in my current sales thread when they're all up (shameless.)

I've gotten six (6) 9.9s and six (6) 10s.

Thousands of 9.8s. 

12 9.9s and 10s.

I haven't gotten a single 10 since 2010 or thereabouts. Since 2010, I've gotten four (4) 9.9s, 3 of which came last year. They're so scarce, I can tell you, ten years on, what all of those books were, too. Let's just say, if they ever make a Black Orchid movie, I'll be happy.

It's funny...my very first pre-screen, in 2008 or so, I got a 10...Dark Horse Presents #56, which, while being a squarebound does NOT have a cardboard cover a la Batman The Cult. 

I thought "well, ok. We're off to the races." Boy, was I wrong.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 minutes ago, newshane said:

RE: Overstreet Guide...they should make an electronic version with ultra-high res scans of their examples. The ability to zoom in and out would be so very helpful. My decaying vision makes it difficult for me to see the fine details on the page. 

Maybe that's always been the solution...as I go blind, I'll no longer be able to see the flaws that bothered me.

 

[newshane]

8 minutes ago, kav said:

if they gave out 9.9s like some people want, then they wouldnt be worth squat for the moderns that are being submitted-then people would vent about the 10.0s they dont get-

Not at all. The expectations for a 10.0 would remain nearly impossible. The truth is simply that the CGC should be awarding far more 9.9s than they do. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, newshane said:

Not at all. The expectations for a 10.0 would remain nearly impossible. The truth is simply that the CGC should be awarding far more 9.9s than they do. 

Exactly. Well said.

[kav]

Just now, newshane said:

Not at all. The expectations for a 10.0 would remain nearly impossible. The truth is simply that the CGC should be awarding far more 9.9s than they do. 

But then the value of 9.9s would fall dramatically-and then everyone would want the 10's-you can see that right?   If someone is submitting books that arent worth much as 9.8s, not worth submitting, then they only hope for a 9.9 because that would be rare and valuable.  More 9.9s = not rare-not valuable-then they want the 10s.

[newshane]

2 minutes ago, kav said:

But then the value of 9.9s would fall dramatically-and then everyone would want the 10's-you can see that right?   If someone is submitting books that arent worth much as 9.8s, not worth submitting, then they only hope for a 9.9 because that would be rare and valuable.  More 9.9s = not rare-not valuable-then they want the 10s.

It might work that way for you, but not for me. 

A 10.0 would be true flawless. It's either a flawless book, or it isn't. There is no more wiggle room to wish at that level of the scale. 

 

[kav]

Then they would want CGC to ease up on the 10s-untils 10s were dime a dozen and a 10.0 modern aint worth squat.

Be careful what you wish for.

[kav]

Just now, newshane said:

It might work that way for you, but not for me. 

A 10.0 would be true flawless. It's either a flawless book, or it isn't. There is no more wiggle room to wish at that level of the scale. 

 

but people are arguing they are sending in flawless books-even with a loupe-and getting 9.8s-

[newshane]

4 minutes ago, kav said:

 9.9s = not rare-not valuable-then they want the 10s.

They aren't really that rare though. Not in reality.