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Has anyone seen a picture of the Blue label 9.2 Detective comics #27 on the census?
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143 posts in this topic

15 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:
22 hours ago, DC Fan said:

The photo is also at the  top of page 3 of this thread.

image.png.f6b89d17f2105bf57a461ba9e25cfcb2.png

Looks micro trimmed ...

Looks more like one of those extra extra restoration jobs from the husband and wife team at IGB.  hm  :p

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2 hours ago, DC Fan said:

Apologies to Rob_React. It looks like he was the Detective who figured it out.

Actually, not too hard to figure out at all since this photo was posted on the boards before and talked about back then during the summer Con season.  (thumbsu

It's also very obvious from the illegitimate 11-digit serial number when CGC serial numbers have only 10 digits in them.  :gossip:

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1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Actually, not too hard to figure out at all since this photo was posted on the boards before and talked about back then during the summer Con season.  (thumbsu

It's also very obvious from the illegitimate 11-digit serial number when CGC serial numbers have only 10 digits in them.  :gossip:

Oh yeah, I knew the photo was faked. I just had never figured out where they sourced the actual book.

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26 minutes ago, rob_react said:

Oh yeah, I knew the photo was faked. I just had never figured out where they sourced the actual book.

You could have just asked me :)

when cgc starting using a few years ago I told folks i thought it was the heritage 8.0 mocked up 

Edited by G.A.tor
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On 8/16/2019 at 8:31 PM, Chicago Boy said:

Still NG   What made you decide to remove it from the fortress and get it graded ?  BC fir sale on eBay   That will get you a 0.5   

 

I didn't remove it or put it up for sale I was just asking if you grade a coverless at CGC is it still a NG or has that changed? Seems its still the same I think maybe the company that shall not be named would grade it a .5 but who would want them to grade anything lol

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On 8/19/2019 at 4:44 AM, Timely said:
On 8/18/2019 at 10:08 PM, lou_fine said:

Although the Church books in general are indeed often the best copies in existence, this does not seem to be the case in a straight match up with the Allentown copies that are out there.  Clearly evident by the fact that the Allentown copies of 'Tec 27 and Cap 1 are deemed to be far superior to the Church copies.  Similar in vein to the fact that in a match up of the early Fox books where the Allentown copies have already been graded, they have either come out on top or at least equivalent to the Church copy, with the main exception being Tim's Mile High copy of Mystery Men 3.  :cloud9:

 

Although Allentown books are rarer due to the small size of the collection, their state of preservation is far below that of a typical Mile High from the same era. Most of the Allentown books are Cream to Off-White or Off-White while most Mile Highs are White or Off-White to White. Out of the 135 Allentowns I'd guess only 10 or so are better than their Mile High counterpart.

West;

I am 110% sure that you have seen a whole ton more of these Allentown pedigree books than I have and I am sure you must be correct when comparing these 2 pedigrees in general.   Of course, everybody here already knows about the high profile Allentown copies of both 'Tec 27 and Cap 1 being most likely the best copies in existence along with the high grade CGC 9.6 graded Allentown copy of 'Tec 29.(thumbsu

Since my comment was more limited to just the early Fox books as I am more of a fan with respect to this small subset of the Allentown collection, I decided to take a closer look to see if I remembered things correctly or not in terms of these particular books being very high grade from a strict condition point of view.  Based upon my limited computer and search skills, I was able to find only 10 early Fox books where there were both Church copies and Allentown copies that had been graded.  Out of these 10 matchups, there were 6 cases where the Allentown copies ended up grading higher than their Church counterparts, 2 copies where they were graded exactly the same, and the remaining 2 copies where the Church copy came out higher than their Allentown counterpart.  As I had already mentioned, one of these was the Mystery Men 3 where the MH copy came in at a CGC 9.6 grade and the AT copy came in at a CGC 9.4 grade.  The only other early Fox book that I was able to find where the Church copy finished higher was the Wonderworld 14 which came in at a grade of CGC 8.5, while the AT copy came in one step lower at only a CGC 8.0 grade.  Interesting to note that Payette (who has a reputation as a tough grader) had the book graded as a raw NM (same as his grade for the Mystery Men 3) which makes me wonder if there might have been some damage inflicted to the book in the interim, or is it due to one of those near invisible flaws that CGC takes the grading hammer to, but is easily upgradeable if "fixed".  hm

Watching PQ sometimes bounce all over the place, I have never place that much significance on the PQ rating for a particular book.  Nevertheless, it looks like out of the 10 early Allentown Fox books, the only one that had any mention of Cream in their PQ was the CGC 9.2 graded copy Wonderworld 6 (still highest graded copy by far) which had a PQ rating of Cream to Off-White pages way back in 2000 when CGC graded it when they first opened their doors.  Any bets that the PQ might actually go up on this book if it ever got regraded since it seems that the accepted thinking on these boards here is that PQ was judged relatively harshly in the early days as compared to later on.  (shrug)

What I am sure of though is that the colors on the Church books always tends to really stand out and seemingly pop right off the covers which is something that CGC doesn't seem to factor as much in terms of their grading as they probably should.  My bet is that the colors on the Church books, even for these early Fox books, would most probably be sharper and stand out a lot more than the ones on the Allentown copies.  In all honesty though, I would certainly not complain and be happy owing any of these early Fox books, whether it be a Church copy, an Allentown copy, or even any of the Larson copies that one of our fellow esteemed board members here is still gripping onto tightly after all of these years.  :cloud9:   :takeit:

Edited by lou_fine
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On 8/24/2019 at 1:21 PM, lou_fine said:

As I had already mentioned, one of these was the Mystery Men 3 where the MH copy came in at a CGC 9.6 grade and the AT copy came in at a CGC 9.4 grade. 

Mystery Men 3 Allentown has not been graded.  I think you meant a different issue.

The Allentown Wonderworld 11, while pretty, has a big spine split while the Church is a 9.6.

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47 minutes ago, adamstrange said:
On 8/24/2019 at 10:21 AM, lou_fine said:

As I had already mentioned, one of these was the Mystery Men 3 where the MH copy came in at a CGC 9.6 grade and the AT copy came in at a CGC 9.4 grade. 

Mystery Men 3 Allentown has not been graded.  I think you meant a different issue.

The Allentown Wonderworld 11, while pretty, has a big spine split while the Church is a 9.6.

That seems strange since the draft writeup for the Allentown Collection (dated 12/28/06) in the never to be printed Pedigree Book that I received from Timely indicated the Allentown copy of Mystery Men 3 had been graded as a CGC 9.4 copy.  The draft writeup indicates Payette had the MM 3 listed as a NM copy from his point of view.  It's quite possible that it might have been a typo or simply mixed up with Wonderworld 3 which was also listed as being a CGC 9.4 graded copy.  (shrug)

As for the Wonderworld 11, that was not included as part of my comparison since I was aware of the rip from the draft writeup, but not aware that it had been officially graded to this point in time.  (thumbsu

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5 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

That seems strange since the draft writeup for the Allentown Collection (dated 12/28/06) in the never to be printed Pedigree Book that I received from Timely indicated the Allentown copy of Mystery Men 3 had been graded as a CGC 9.4 copy.  The draft writeup indicates Payette had the MM 3 listed as a NM copy from his point of view.  It's quite possible that it might have been a typo or simply mixed up with Wonderworld 3 which was also listed as being a CGC 9.4 graded copy.

The MM 3 9.4 and 9.6 are the Larson and Church and showed up only when Berk slabbed his books for the auction.

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On 8/20/2019 at 1:10 PM, action1kid said:

The question to me is- Is a 9.2 unrestored Detective #27 worth more than a 9.0 Action # 1 ?

the real issue would be what would bring more money..9.2 Action 1 or 9.2 Det 27... one vote for A1

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2 hours ago, adamstrange said:
2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

That seems strange since the draft writeup for the Allentown Collection (dated 12/28/06) in the never to be printed Pedigree Book that I received from Timely indicated the Allentown copy of Mystery Men 3 had been graded as a CGC 9.4 copy.  The draft writeup indicates Payette had the MM 3 listed as a NM copy from his point of view.  It's quite possible that it might have been a typo or simply mixed up with Wonderworld 3 which was also listed as being a CGC 9.4 graded copy.

The MM 3 9.4 and 9.6 are the Larson and Church and showed up only when Berk slabbed his books for the auction.

Yes, didn't realize that Berk had the Larson copy of MM 3 graded as I thought he might have simply kept it raw as part of his keeper collection.

Well, if the Allentown copy of Mystery Men 3 still hasn't been graded, then that means it's out of the picture and the matchup between the 2 pedigrees is down to only 9 books then.  Based upon this adjustment, it looks like the Allentown came out on top in 6 out of the 9 (i.e. MM #1, #11, #13, and WW #6, #10, #13) when matched up against their Church counterpart, the same in two of them (i.e. Wonderworld's #3 & #8), with the final one being the Church copy of Wonderworld Comics 14 at CGC 8.5 just nudging out the Allentown copy of WW 14 which came in at a grade of CGC 8.0.  (thumbsu

Is anybody else here aware of graded copies of the early Fox books where both the Church and Allentown copies have already been graded?  hm

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