Ever dealt with this auction house?
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https://www.memorabilia.expert/shop/1940-sheldon-moldoff-original-drawing-hawkman-first-hawkman-ever-created-1-1/

I was led here for some MMA fight programs, but noticed this Shelly Hawkman concept sketch.

They say this concept sketch was done August 1940 but Flash Comics #1 had a cover date of January 1940 (and they even acknowledge this).

Anyone dealt with these guys? Their site states they prefer money orders and can reject credit cards at any time. Makes me slightly nervous.

They do have / had some great non OA stuff though.

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What could possibly go wrong? They are memorabilia experts... :devil:

Malvin 

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6 hours ago, Bill C said:

https://www.memorabilia.expert/shop/1940-sheldon-moldoff-original-drawing-hawkman-first-hawkman-ever-created-1-1/

I was led here for some MMA fight programs, but noticed this Shelly Hawkman concept sketch.

They say this concept sketch was done August 1940 but Flash Comics #1 had a cover date of January 1940 (and they even acknowledge this).

Anyone dealt with these guys? Their site states they prefer money orders and can reject credit cards at any time. Makes me slightly nervous.

They do have / had some great non OA stuff though.

I don't claim expertise on this subject, just common sense.

In 1940, do you really think someone would be doing a sketch at that level of detail and write in the phrase "original sketch"?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I don't claim expertise on this subject, just common sense.

In 1940, do you really think someone would be doing a sketch at that level of detail and write in the phrase "original sketch"?

I think what is implied by those words being on the drawing is exactly what Bill C has written.
It is implied that this is not AN original Hawkman sketch, but THE original Hawkman concept sketch, and Shelly is indicating it as such by writing it on the piece for posterity. The date could very well have just been when he signed it to give it away.

I'm no Moldoff art expert, or even terribly informed on the OA of the time. But looking at the drawing in the scan, WHOEVER the artist might be, they were working at a very high rate of skill, especially for that time. That brushwork in the wings is really quite gorgeous. It shows none of the hesitation lines, or blobby fudging of an untrained hand. None of the double line fakery, trying to replicate the use of a brush for inking. It looks like legit craftsmanship.

What I can't tell from looking their scan, is if it's original art or not. For all I know this was pulled from an old book, and is a print, or old copy or stat of some kind. Or it's the real deal.
I also have only ever seen Moldoff's "old man" signature, which was basically print letters. The more --script "Shelly" seems very fluid and much more feminine than what I'm used to seeing from him. But whoever did the original piece did a bang up drawing. Maybe nicer than anything I've ever seen from Shelly before? At that price, I'd be doing a hell of a lot of research first.

One thing I know for sure. It needs to come out of that frame if it's original. That's horrible!

 

Edited by ESeffinga

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Not a Moldoff expert .  But if it's a fake, it's a good one.  Not sure who would come up with the $15,000 for it.

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1 hour ago, Will_K said:

Not a Moldoff expert .  But if it's a fake, it's a good one.  Not sure who would come up with the $15,000 for it.

According to ComicLink, they sold the original concept sketch of Wonder Woman in 2006 (a lifetime ago in OA terms) for 75K.

https://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?id=647626

Not saying the Hawkman is legit, I don't know. But for the sake of argument- if the Hawkman concept sketch was 100% legit, I think 15K sounds reasonable.

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Posted (edited)

Well didn’t Shelly start drawing Hawkman from Flash comics 4 right? And wasn’t Dennis Neville the original Hawkman artist? So regardless this cant be a concept drawing and at most a sketch from that time.

I also looked at Shelly’s signature from issues of Flash comics 4 -10. The signature varies a bit but never looked like the one in this drawing.

RB

Edited by RICKYBOBBY

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Bill C said:

https://www.memorabilia.expert/shop/1940-sheldon-moldoff-original-drawing-hawkman-first-hawkman-ever-created-1-1/

I was led here for some MMA fight programs, but noticed this Shelly Hawkman concept sketch.

They say this concept sketch was done August 1940 but Flash Comics #1 had a cover date of January 1940 (and they even acknowledge this).

Anyone dealt with these guys? Their site states they prefer money orders and can reject credit cards at any time. Makes me slightly nervous.

They do have / had some great non OA stuff though.

Hey Bill this drawing is on Shelly's old web site. They were asking for upwards of $34k on his site. It could be that the family is trying to sell it through the website you found at a discount . It said "First Hawkman Shelly drew, in 1940 in pen only one made." The last contact I had for Shelly was 954-588-4874  You might have come across a major find. Contact the family.

Screen-shot-2011-03-04-at-9.39.07-PM.png

 
first 

photo1-4.jpg

Edited by grapeape

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Like many of you stated, I’m no Moldoff expert but it does look expertly drawn. But the fact that it has been heavily discounted from $25k gives me pause. If the provenance was solid it would have been long gone. 2c

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Like many of you stated, I’m no Moldoff expert but it does look expertly drawn. But the fact that it has been heavily discounted from $25k gives me pause. If the provenance was solid it would have been long gone. 2c

This drawing was on Shelly's website. Just a matter of if the new web site that Bill provided the link to really is in possession of the original art. Are they selling for the Moldoff family?

Edited by grapeape

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9 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

I think what is implied by those words being on the drawing is exactly what Bill C has written.
It is implied that this is not AN original Hawkman sketch, but THE original Hawkman concept sketch, and Shelly is indicating it as such by writing it on the piece for posterity. The date could very well have just been when he signed it to give it away.

I'm no Moldoff art expert, or even terribly informed on the OA of the time. But looking at the drawing in the scan, WHOEVER the artist might be, they were working at a very high rate of skill, especially for that time. That brushwork in the wings is really quite gorgeous. It shows none of the hesitation lines, or blobby fudging of an untrained hand. None of the double line fakery, trying to replicate the use of a brush for inking. It looks like legit craftsmanship.

What I can't tell from looking their scan, is if it's original art or not. For all I know this was pulled from an old book, and is a print, or old copy or stat of some kind. Or it's the real deal.
I also have only ever seen Moldoff's "old man" signature, which was basically print letters. The more ---script "Shelly" seems very fluid and much more feminine than what I'm used to seeing from him. But whoever did the original piece did a bang up drawing. Maybe nicer than anything I've ever seen from Shelly before? At that price, I'd be doing a hell of a lot of research first.

One thing I know for sure. It needs to come out of that frame if it's original. That's horrible!

 

I don’t disagree that it is very well done, but compare it to the Wonder Woman drawing that was supposedly the first one. That is what I would expect a concept sketch to look like. Multiple views to see the whole of the character. Not a drawing of the main character and some one else on the same page. As a concept, I should think the character would be shown as flying. The Hawkman drawing may well be by Moldoff, but I would be surprised if it were the first.

 

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4 hours ago, grapeape said:

This drawing was on Shelly's website. Just a matter of if the new web site that Bill provided the link to really is in possession of the original art. Are they selling for the Moldoff family?

I think you and I were typing at the same time and your post went through before mine. I think you added the second image a little later. 

Otherwise, no clue as who’s in possession of it. It’s probably legit but if the House is selling it on behalf of the estate, why don’t they say so? That provenance would surely reassure buyers. Or, it could be that $15K is still too much. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

I don’t disagree that it is very well done, but compare it to the Wonder Woman drawing that was supposedly the first one. That is what I would expect a concept sketch to look like. Multiple views to see the whole of the character. Not a drawing of the main character and some one else on the same page. As a concept, I should think the character would be shown as flying. The Hawkman drawing may well be by Moldoff, but I would be surprised if it were the first.

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen a number of concept sketches over the years that only show one shot of the character. And if someone else is in the image- like the Hawkman one- they may just be a prop for all intents and purposes to show what the character does. No red flag from those things strictly by themselves.

The Punisher- as an example of just one shot in a concept sketch:

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1419922

Many times concept sketches were never done for characters at all, I'm thinking specifically for some Marvel titles. 

Edited by Bill C

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The Frame stinks.

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Posted (edited)

They're also offering several other Moldoff illustrations, all in color and priced much lower.

Edited by Hal Turner

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1 hour ago, Hal Turner said:

They're also offering several other Moldoff illustrations, all in color and priced much lower.

I've emailed Kenneth Moldoff so we can get to the bottom of this.

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5 hours ago, Bill C said:

I'm pretty sure I've seen a number of concept sketches over the years that only show one shot of the character. And if someone else is in the image- like the Hawkman one- they may just be a prop for all intents and purposes to show what the character does. No red flag from those things strictly by themselves.

The Punisher- as an example of just one shot in a concept sketch:

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1419922

Many times concept sketches were never done for characters at all, I'm thinking specifically for some Marvel titles. 

But, the Punisher sketch is just that— it looks “sketchy”, not finished, like Wonder Woman. And the Punisher is holding his primary weapon, a gun. I would expect a true first sketch of Hawkman would have him in some stage of flight to show off his main power at a time when that would have been a big, impressive deal.

My thinking is that the Hawkman drawing was an early drawing of his, but not a concept sketch.

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You must be right.

Him writing that it was “the original” was probably his 1940 master plan to really put one over on those shmucks 79 years in the future, with some heavily discounted art. 

BOOM suckers! Take that.

 

To me, and maybe this is just me, I wouldn’t be so hung up of there was a sketchy thumbnail that predated this. Assuming this is the actual drawing (and not a sham by a 3rd party using the photo) its an amaze balls drawing from Moldoff from the beginning of Hawkman.

Unless some day we discover the man wrote Original on all of them and someone finds out there are dozens out there, it is what it is. One buys accordingly. I’d take it at its word. It’s not like Shelly was Bob Kane. 

Questioning the guy’s integrity is maybe unnecessary, unless you have some actual facts to back up those suppositions about sketches, and flight and being by himself, etc?

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

You must be right.

Him writing that it was “the original” was probably his 1940 master plan to really put one over on those shmucks 79 years in the future, with some heavily discounted art. 

BOOM suckers! Take that.

 

To me, and maybe this is just me, I wouldn’t be so hung up of there was a sketchy thumbnail that predated this. Assuming this is the actual drawing (and not a sham by a 3rd party using the photo) its an amaze balls drawing from Moldoff from the beginning of Hawkman.

Unless some day we discover the man wrote Original on all of them and someone finds out there are dozens out there, it is what it is. One buys accordingly. I’d take it at its word. It’s not like Shelly was Bob Kane. 

Questioning the guy’s integrity is maybe unnecessary, unless you have some actual facts to back up those suppositions about sketches, and flight and being by himself, etc?

 

 

 

 

 

You are assuming that “original” means first. It can also mean that he actually did the sketch, not that it was his first sketch, which is what I think is more likely. If this was his “first” Hawkman, he would have no way of knowing the character would become significant in the future. So, writing “first” would give it an odd significance. But, it is a terrific piece of art.

Edited by Rick2you2

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