Anyone ever go down a grade after a resubmit?
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Curious to hear your stories if you have ever sent something in to CGC to have it regraded only to go down a grade.  

Or if you sent something to get pressed and regraded to see it drop a point after grading  

 

 

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I've sent books in and had CCS say "Don't risk pressing. It could pop a staple and drop a grade..."

That's as close as I've got. 

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On 8/26/2019 at 11:38 AM, Gruson said:

Curious to hear your stories if you have ever sent something in to CGC to have it regraded only to go down a grade.  

I had a comic not only go down a grade but also change label colors on regrading.  No work of any kind was performed on the comic.

Edited by namisgr

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Wow.  I would be furious. Can’t you dipsute?

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On 8/26/2019 at 11:38 AM, Gruson said:

Curious to hear your stories if you have ever sent something in to CGC to have it regraded only to go down a grade.  

Or if you sent something to get pressed and regraded to see it drop a point after grading  

 

 

Yes, grading varies even among CGCs 3 grader system over the years. There are even books from a supposed weak period of overgrading that are avoided or not resubbed. 

I've had an ASM 38 9.4 white get knocked down to a 9.2 OW/W. 

It had a 1/4" color break crease on the middle FC that was judged harsher the 2nd time around. I didn't notice it until I removed the holder. :tonofbricks:

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What was time of weak/easy grading?

and strict?

I think 2012 was easy?

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The grading has fluctuated between periods of relative tightness and looseness many times over the years.  As for now, I thought my submission made in the spring and graded this summer was surprisingly, uh, favorable.

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14 hours ago, Gruson said:

Wow.  I would be furious. Can’t you dipsute?

The only grading I ever called and wrote CGC about to dispute was when they graded the copy of ASM121 that I bought off the rack back in 1973 as being trimmed on the right edge.  The dispute got me nowhere, and the company was disinterested in using my book to better differentiate between naturally produced and hand trimmed edges.

As for the comic that changed label colors in addition to grades on a straight resubmission, it went from an old blue label 9.0 to a green label 8.5 owing to 'staples cleaned'.  In the early days of CGC I used to crack open all my slabbed buys because I preferred owning the comics raw and wanted to learn more about their grading standards.  The straight resubmission was years later when I decided to re-encapsulate it.  I had Matt Nelson evaluate the green label version that came back - this was years before he began working for CCS and CGC, when he was doing restoration evaluations at comic conventions.  He opened it up at the centerfold, used his thumb to press down on the staple ends there, and recommended I resubmit it.  It then came back an 8.5 blue label, changing label colors for a second time:

FF10blue.jpg.fccf2a62d99b985ec0652c0023592598.jpg

Edited by namisgr

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I once submitted an ASM9 9.0 in an old case and it came back an 8.0. I cracked it out... sent it back and it came back and 8.5. At that point I just washed the comic and called it a loss. Still in disbelief this came back and 8.0... and a 8.5 when it looked like this after cracking it out of the 8.0 case. 

IMG_0316.thumb.JPG.91d8bd8d71c9c6086e9c1321bfbf7fe7.JPGIMG_0326.JPG.9e679d8814fc72cc07d5463bf4934397.JPGIMG_0327.JPG.78494f5e286fa0a130294a65eebc02ec.JPG

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I had a recent horror story with this. I had a gorgeous copy of Giant Size X-Men at 9.0. The back staple area was black, but otherwise the book looked like a solid 9.2-9.4, so I sent it to a well known presser who cleaned it up and pressed, improving the condition even further. However, the cleaning now showed the staple rather than a small discolored area on the back cover. CGC graded it a 7.5 and notes it “rusted staple with hole”. Major loss in terms of cleaning, submission, and grade drop. 
 

 Very reluctant to ever attempt to resubmit again. 

Edited by Xatari

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Chasing a better grade IMHO is folly. The only time I’ve resubmitted books is when they had purple labels and CCS removed the resto (or in the case of my Avengers 4 9.4, which had a cleaned cover, and qualified for the Conserved label). 

Those are cases where you don’t mind the grade going down... because you’re getting the upgraded label. :)

Edited by oldrover

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Posted (edited)
On 8/29/2019 at 4:04 AM, namisgr said:

The grading has fluctuated between periods of relative tightness and looseness many times over the years.  As for now, I thought my submission made in the spring and graded this summer was surprisingly, uh, favorable.

Is this fluctuation between loose and tight grading not the standard norm that we have come to expect from CGC over the years?  (shrug)

Although we all know that grading is really more of an art than an exact science, I believe these swings in grading is also exacerbated due to the possibility that CGC tends to adjust their undisclosed grading standards according to the current business agenda that is in play at any point in time.  This should not be surprising at all and in fact, should be expected, since the CCG ownership is a business entity after all and what really matters is their top line and bottom line.  hm

Edited by lou_fine

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On 8/29/2019 at 2:17 PM, YouFoundDonon said:

I once submitted an ASM9 9.0 in an old case and it came back an 8.0. I cracked it out... sent it back and it came back and 8.5. At that point I just washed the comic and called it a loss. Still in disbelief this came back and 8.0... and a 8.5 when it looked like this after cracking it out of the 8.0 case. 

IMG_0316.thumb.JPG.91d8bd8d71c9c6086e9c1321bfbf7fe7.JPGIMG_0326.JPG.9e679d8814fc72cc07d5463bf4934397.JPGIMG_0327.JPG.78494f5e286fa0a130294a65eebc02ec.JPG

That’s crazy.  Sorry that happened. 

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On 8/29/2019 at 7:08 AM, namisgr said:

The only grading I ever called and wrote CGC about to dispute was when they graded the copy of ASM121 that I bought off the rack back in 1973 as being trimmed on the right edge.  The dispute got me nowhere, and the company was disinterested in using my book to better differentiate between naturally produced and hand trimmed edges.

As for the comic that changed label colors in addition to grades on a straight resubmission, it went from an old blue label 9.0 to a green label 8.5 owing to 'staples cleaned'.  In the early days of CGC I used to crack open all my slabbed buys because I preferred owning the comics raw and wanted to learn more about their grading standards.  The straight resubmission was years later when I decided to re-encapsulate it.  I had Matt Nelson evaluate the green label version that came back - this was years before he began working for CCS and CGC, when he was doing restoration evaluations at comic conventions.  He opened it up at the centerfold, used his thumb to press down on the staple ends there, and recommended I resubmit it.  It then came back an 8.5 blue label, changing label colors for a second time:

FF10blue.jpg.fccf2a62d99b985ec0652c0023592598.jpg

Wow...nice book!  

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On 8/29/2019 at 2:17 PM, YouFoundDonon said:

I once submitted an ASM9 9.0 in an old case and it came back an 8.0. I cracked it out... sent it back and it came back and 8.5. At that point I just washed the comic and called it a loss. Still in disbelief this came back and 8.0... and a 8.5 when it looked like this after cracking it out of the 8.0 case. 

IMG_0316.thumb.JPG.91d8bd8d71c9c6086e9c1321bfbf7fe7.JPGIMG_0326.JPG.9e679d8814fc72cc07d5463bf4934397.JPGIMG_0327.JPG.78494f5e286fa0a130294a65eebc02ec.JPG

Nice looking book!  

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On 1/2/2020 at 2:23 AM, lou_fine said:

Is this fluctuation between loose and tight grading not the standard norm that we have come to expect from CGC over the years?  (shrug)

Although we all know that grading is really more of an art than an exact science, I believe these swings in grading is also exacerbated due to the possibility that CGC tends to adjust their undisclosed grading standards according to the current business agenda that is in play at any point in time.  This should not be surprising at all and in fact, should be expected, since the CCG ownership is a business entity after all and what really matters is their top line and bottom line.  hm

I firmly believe that one of the reasons grading fluctuates is because most graders grade a bit differently from day to day and week to week, myself included. Sometimes fatigue plays a role; sometimes the day itself presents nothing but problems and obstacles. Not only that, but grading in different conditions can cause variations. For instance, the lighting and seating arrangements are quite different when grading books at shows. Moreover, graders do depend upon one another for confirmation grades, and if for some reason their favorite confirmation grader is out of the office that day, it may cause their grading to vary slightly. 

And yes, I've resubmitted books and had not only the grade go down, but the page quality as well. :(

On the other hand, I've resubbed books and had the grade go up significantly, without doing anything at all to the book...

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1 hour ago, The Lions Den said:

I firmly believe that one of the reasons grading fluctuates is because most graders grade a bit differently from day to day and week to week, myself included. Sometimes fatigue plays a role; sometimes the day itself presents nothing but problems and obstacles. Not only that, but grading in different conditions can cause variations. For instance, the lighting and seating arrangements are quite different when grading books at shows. Moreover, graders do depend upon one another for confirmation grades, and if for some reason their favorite confirmation grader is out of the office that day, it may cause their grading to vary slightly. 

And yes, I've resubmitted books and had not only the grade go down, but the page quality as well. :(

On the other hand, I've resubbed books and had the grade go up significantly, without doing anything at all to the book...

Excellent observations and comments!

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Yup.

You play the CPR game, you don't always win.

I sounded like Tyrion Lannister then.

Spooky.

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I got a few books graded higher never lower but from white pages to white/off white.

I only crack a book that’s like 7.0 give or take that I can visibly see has wrinkles or bends that don’t break color.

once you start cracking higher grade books it’s really iffy.

Its easy to see a 6.0 that gas a lot of room for improvement than a 9.0 that may make a 9.4

Edited by Shoomanfoo

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