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Seller opened a case against me... will I win?
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Started by miraclemet,

21 posts in this topic

miraclemet

miraclemet

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Bought a GA book on ebay a few weeks back. The book had a detailed description of the condition (so I thought) and photos of the front and back of the book. It was described as a VG+ book and the defects listed were in line with that. 

 

Book arrived, I opened it & took it out of the bag/board to inspect the book. I noted the chipping on interior pages was far more extensive than expressed (and had me worried about brittleness) and the book had a spine split from the bottom up 2+". 

 

So I packed it up and returned (following ebay steps) it noting that the defects were greater than anticipated based on the description. 

 

Now the guy has opened a case against me saying that upon return, the book's centerfold is now loose (I honestly dont remember if the centerfold was loose when I got it, but it wouldnt surprise me considering the whole book was spine split nearly to the staple. 

 

What are the odds that I win this dispute and dont have to take back this sub-par book? 

 

Im honestly more annoyed about the sellers tone talking about how the buyer needs to understand that golden age books are delicate and need to be handled with care... Im like WHAT?!?! I know how to handle GA books.... 

anyway... just had to blow off the steam. I know ebay typically sides with the buyer in these cases, but I'd rather not get stuck eating a couple hundred buck of a bad seller...

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01TheDude

01TheDude

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so they didn't disclose the loose center wrap either but you failed to notice it? Did you stop inspecting the book after seeing the chipped pages? They probably won't win but you sort of left an opening there. Ebay will typically still side with you imo. Not as described trumps suspected damage from the buyer.

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miraclemet

miraclemet

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Yeah once I saw the spine split and the chip pieces in the bag I closed it and packed it for return... 

I wasn't too detailed in my explanation for returns (because the seller had a 14 day return policy I figured this would just be a typical return).. but I've learned my lesson here cause right now the "case" has my 2 sentence return description and his paragraph about how this was my fault... Im gonna call tomorrow to try to add to my side of the case, but I know for next time. Be verbose. 

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miraclemet

miraclemet

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6 minutes ago, 01TheDude said:

are you going to add them to the EBAY BLOCK list? Is it that level of deception?

How much of a grade impact are we talking here? Like-- you thought it was about a X but it was more like a Y...

It was sold as a 4.5, it looked to me to be a 3.0ish at best and likely brittle pages. 

With the level of detail of the books condition description I cant imagine how they had missed the spine split, it's not like that is something that develops over time in the bag... I just figured they missed something, and weren't trying to deceive... but if they try to push the book on me through the ebay dispute process it's gonna make me think they're trying to unload the book on me... 

Edited by miraclemet
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01TheDude

01TheDude

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8 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

It was sold as a 4.5, it looked to me to be a 3.0ish at best and likely brittle pages. 

With the level of detail of the books condition description I cant imagine how they had missed the spine split, it's not like that is something that develops over time in the bag...

I never hold someone to the grade they claim-- I look at the pictures and guess what range the book is most likely in. Just how I roll because often times-- they have over graded it, scared off people who disagreed with the grade assessment, and let me get it for what seemed like a fair enough price for what I was after (typically some mid-grade silver age goodness).

Not that I am saying you need to adopt my thought process. I get that you were unhappy with the stuff - especially that obvious spine split - and you are definitely within your rights to return the book. Shame on the seller for resisting this. Out them-- not for bad grading or poor description of the book-- but for fighting this return unreasonably.

Edited by 01TheDude
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kav

kav

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42 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

It was sold as a 4.5, it looked to me to be a 3.0ish at best and likely brittle pages. 

With the level of detail of the books condition description I cant imagine how they had missed the spine split, it's not like that is something that develops over time in the bag... I just figured they missed something, and weren't trying to deceive... but if they try to push the book on me through the ebay dispute process it's gonna make me think they're trying to unload the book on me... 

def sounds like attempted unload situation.

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Hollywood1892

Hollywood1892

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11 hours ago, miraclemet said:

Bought a GA book on ebay a few weeks back. The book had a detailed description of the condition (so I thought) and photos of the front and back of the book. It was described as a VG+ book and the defects listed were in line with that. 

 

Book arrived, I opened it & took it out of the bag/board to inspect the book. I noted the chipping on interior pages was far more extensive than expressed (and had me worried about brittleness) and the book had a spine split from the bottom up 2+". 

 

So I packed it up and returned (following ebay steps) it noting that the defects were greater than anticipated based on the description. 

 

Now the guy has opened a case against me saying that upon return, the book's centerfold is now loose (I honestly dont remember if the centerfold was loose when I got it, but it wouldnt surprise me considering the whole book was spine split nearly to the staple. 

 

What are the odds that I win this dispute and dont have to take back this sub-par book? 

 

Im honestly more annoyed about the sellers tone talking about how the buyer needs to understand that golden age books are delicate and need to be handled with care... Im like WHAT?!?! I know how to handle GA books.... 

anyway... just had to blow off the steam. I know ebay typically sides with the buyer in these cases, but I'd rather not get stuck eating a couple hundred buck of a bad seller...

I'm cheering for you

So much deception with raws on Ebay 

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grapeape

grapeape

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12 hours ago, miraclemet said:

Bought a GA book on ebay a few weeks back. The book had a detailed description of the condition (so I thought) and photos of the front and back of the book. It was described as a VG+ book and the defects listed were in line with that. 

 

Book arrived, I opened it & took it out of the bag/board to inspect the book. I noted the chipping on interior pages was far more extensive than expressed (and had me worried about brittleness) and the book had a spine split from the bottom up 2+". 

 

So I packed it up and returned (following ebay steps) it noting that the defects were greater than anticipated based on the description. 

 

Now the guy has opened a case against me saying that upon return, the book's centerfold is now loose (I honestly dont remember if the centerfold was loose when I got it, but it wouldnt surprise me considering the whole book was spine split nearly to the staple. 

 

What are the odds that I win this dispute and dont have to take back this sub-par book? 

 

Im honestly more annoyed about the sellers tone talking about how the buyer needs to understand that golden age books are delicate and need to be handled with care... Im like WHAT?!?! I know how to handle GA books.... 

anyway... just had to blow off the steam. I know ebay typically sides with the buyer in these cases, but I'd rather not get stuck eating a couple hundred buck of a bad seller...

Buying raw books is a nightmare. I believe you and hope they don't go against you on this one. I would stay away from non slabbed books on the internet and only buy them in person after inspection. Good luck.

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Artboy99

Artboy99

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Posted (edited)

spine split is difficult to see in internet pictures especially if the seller isnt taking pictures to explicitly reveal that defect.

I bought a raw book off a very well known seller that advertised the book as a 3.0 but when it arrives the entire spine is split and the book is at best a 1.5 - 2.0

Lessons learned and I agree with the post above: stick to graded books when buying from the internet.

Edited by Artboy99
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miraclemet

miraclemet

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Well I just sat down to call ebay, and checked the reference number and they had already ruled! (48 hours was more like 12!)

The end result: 

 

Quote

"After reviewing your case, it appears that the item was returned in a different condition from how it was shipped. However, in this case, you'll still receive a refund." 

now. I take issue with their "item was returned in a different condition"  cause it wasn't. (unless he means that I didnt include all of the loose bits of brittle paper that were in the bag).

but in the end I got my refund and the seller got his book back. 

The book WAS shipped/packed well. And it honestly could have been a case of the spine degrading in the bag and he didnt check it before selling (and was using existing/old pictures and condition notes). But if you order from danielk1501 be diligent about checking condition. And documenting condition. 

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10cents

10cents

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eBay sides with buyers in almost all cases, just call them. Don’t get into a message chain with the guy, that’s all they usually go by. 

In most cases like this if the seller doesn’t want to work out the problem and are requiring a return, I would immediately contact eBay before sending back anything. 

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10cents

10cents

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19 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

Well I just sat down to call ebay, and checked the reference number and they had already ruled! (48 hours was more like 12!)

The end result: 

 

now. I take issue with their "item was returned in a different condition"  cause it wasn't. (unless he means that I didnt include all of the loose bits of brittle paper that were in the bag).

but in the end I got my refund and the seller got his book back. 

The book WAS shipped/packed well. And it honestly could have been a case of the spine degrading in the bag and he didnt check it before selling (and was using existing/old pictures and condition notes). But if you order from danielk1501 be diligent about checking condition. And documenting condition. 

The seller also got to keep the money, there’s no way for eBay to know who is at fault in this situation, it’s easier to make both parties happy if there isn’t a record of this type of behavior. 

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miraclemet

miraclemet

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5 minutes ago, 10cents said:

The seller also got to keep the money, there’s no way for eBay to know who is at fault in this situation, it’s easier to make both parties happy if there isn’t a record of this type of behavior. 

interesting, didnt realize that ebay was willing to take a hit on these type of situations... wonder how many types of this behavior it takes for ebay to stop rewarding the seller... 

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rjpb

rjpb

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Please out this seller. I know detached centerfolds really bother some people, but if I buy a raw book advertised as VG+ or less, and it shows up with a detached cf, I'm not going to return it, but if buy a book in the VG range, and shows up with undisclosed brittle pages, I won't hesitate returning it, and do so a couple of times a year on average I'd guess (I'm not talking about isolated areas on slightly brittle pages that are otherwise supple, but books that are flaking in the bag, or chip easily on handling).

To me any seller who doesn't disclose brittle pages, but is making a stink over a centerfold that they believe became detached upon the buyer handling the book (which only happens if it was barely holding on in the first place) is someone we all should avoid doing business with.  

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kav

kav

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Seller seems to have discovered a neat little niche for himself selling books and getting paid plus the book back for the next target.

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