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Was scrolling through the Comiclink auction results today...
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123 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, lou_fine said:

RMA;

I was just applying my math to the original 100,000 extant copies that you was mentioning in your earlier post up above.  :gossip:

The 100,000 figure applied to the "50%" portion of that sentence, not "total number of extant copies." My apologies for the lack of clarity. ;)

ASM #300 has been discussed at great length in the Copper Age section. It was not a heavily ordered book, nor was it a hoarded book. ASM #252 and #300 are night and day different in how each played out.

A lot of people...especially people younger than 40...have absolutely insisted that Venom was an "ultra popular, ultra hot character from the start." He wasn't. It took Venom quite some time...4 years or so...to break out of the pack.

But...the same is true (to a much lesser extent) for McFarlane. It has to be remembered that when orders for ASM #300 were due, #298 was brand spankin' new (and the newsstands wouldn't see a copy for a couple more weeks.) The only books that existed at the time that showed McFarlane art as "OMG MCFARLANE ART!!!!" were Hulk #340, 341....and Detective Comics #578. 

That's it. Not many were reading Hulk, and from #330-339, Todd's pencils were buried under other inkers. The same would be true of ASM #298 and #299, though McLeod said that's because the pencils were rushed...which wouldn't be surprising, considering Todd was juggling two books, and preparing for #300 AND Hulk #345, both of which were "double size" issues. 

And, of course, no self-respecting Marvel Zombie would dare touch a DC...even Batman, who, at the time, wasn't selling so hot, either. So, there wasn't really any body of work for people to BE excited about. Hulk #340 came out a couple of weeks before ASM #298, and while Hulk #340-343 contain McFarlane's work in its full glory, again, not a ton of people saw it. 

The order numbers we have support this. There's only about a 20% bump in the numbers of ASM #300 over #298, 299....and 297, 296, 295, etc. ASM #300 was, really, the first time that buyers saw what Todd was capable of, on a mainstream book. By then, of course, it was too late to order more. Even still, the books did a slowwwww burn. You see the print run and sales numbers for ASM did not go up...and even went DOWN a little bit...during Todd's tenure on the title (alliteration!) So, throughout the rest of 1988 and 1989, the "big book" was actually #298, and #299-#300 crept up after it....but you don't see anything insane until Todd leaves ASM, and Marvel announces Spiderman. The 6 months between ASM #328 and Spiderman #1 were enough to make everyone go insane, and in June, when Spiderman #1 was released, back issue prices exploded. $30 for ASM #298 and #300, and $15 for #299, 301-305, etc. It was total craziness...but it took a couple of years of a slow simmer for it to happen.

You could still find ASM #300s for $5-$8 or so...still a decent sum of money then...in early 1990....but not for long.

So, because of that, you don't see the massive numbers of newsstand copies of #300, like you see for #252. Everyone and their mother's uncle's cousin's dogsitter's housecat went out and scooped up every copy of #252...there's no official proof of this, but it was probably the first Marvel to sell out since ASM #121-122 11 years earlier....and perhaps even going back to Marvel Comics #1. Virtually the entire print run of #252 was saved, rather than the usual 30% sell through at the newsstand (with 70% being returned and "destroyed.") This is why newsstand copies of the book are so plentiful. The same is true of #361, a decade later. Everyone ran out to buy every copy there was, immediately. There was no "down time" for the book.

That wasn't the case with ASM #300 which, although it probably saw higher sales than surrounding issues, would certainly have been subject to the same type of return numbers as surrounding issues....which is why newsstand copies are a touch harder to find.

Sure, there are people running around who claim they ordered a "case" of ASM #300...and the answer to that is always "why?" An anniversary issue, sure, but anniversary issues had never performed well in the market before. A new villain that no one had ever heard of. An artist hardly anyone had heard of. It doesn't make sense. It's a case of memories being retconned again.

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#300 absolutely had some heat right out of the gate, just not full-blown 90s craziness. I missed the month it came out and it was one of the only times I ever considered buying multiple copies of a recent issue, but the ads it was headlining already had it at $5 a copy and I figured everybody else was already buying it so there was probably no potential there.

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On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 5:29 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I'm not sure the 1970s, the period when the comic market really emerged and established itself, is a good comparison to what's happening today when the market has already matured.  You're usually going to have explosive growth when a new market successfully emerges because the base you're comparing too is so small.  Those types of growth rates only really happen once and taper off as the new market settles into a more normalized growth pattern.  I think a better comparison might be to the surge in prices that happened when CGC first came on the scene... the early/mid-2000s.  I definitely remember all the head-scratching when graded books started going for what at the time were considered "really crazy prices."  Would be interesting to compare today's growth, driven by all the comic media output, to that period.  And there may be some lessons to be learned there. 

I still have the one of the first Heritage Catalogues from late 2001, for a Signature Comics auction full of write ups for late Bronze books such as X-Men examples from the Byrne/Clarmont X-Men run, describing 9.4 as a very high grade that you'd be lucky to get. I also have a handful of Bronze Age Action Comics examples in 9.8 where I tracked the cert numbers on GPA and found they sold for several hundred dollars in the 2000s before finding their way to me at lower prices years later, and these aren't even key books. 

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1 hour ago, oakman29 said:

What incoming recession? Trump has given this country an economy that has been the best in 60 years , not to mention our balls back internationally. 

(tsk) No politics please. 

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The wild market is why I'm not buying "movie" keys or first appearance books from the silver age and up. 

Using ASM 300 as an example...there are a truckload of those out there. The price is ridiculous. I could go on and on...

I think the people who will hurt the most are folks who went all in with the variant chases...followed by the hot movie books/first appearance keys. 

 

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18 minutes ago, newshane said:

The wild market is why I'm not buying "movie" keys or first appearance books from the silver age and up. 

Using ASM 300 as an example...there are a truckload of those out there. The price is ridiculous. I could go on and on...

I think the people who will hurt the most are folks who went all in with the variant chases...followed by the hot movie books/first appearance keys. 

 

:wishluck:

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3 hours ago, Greenlake said:

#300 absolutely had some heat right out of the gate, just not full-blown 90s craziness. I missed the month it came out and it was one of the only times I ever considered buying multiple copies of a recent issue, but the ads it was headlining already had it at $5 a copy and I figured everybody else was already buying it so there was probably no potential there.

Yeah, ASM #300 was definitely bought in multiples... I bought three off the stands. I bought two ASM #200s... five Action #500s... it was common to buy centennial anniversary issues in multiples.  They were considered events.  Though I do agree with the poster that it wasn't Venom that drove it... he became popular later.  It was the anniversary aspect first and foremost... and secondly the attention that McFarlane was starting to get.  I also agree that #252 was a bit different from #300.  You knew #300 was coming and were prepared to buy multiples.  #252 came out of nowhere and really shook fandom... Marvel's most iconic costume was suddenly and dramatically gone... and with no explanation... had never been done before and sent collectors scrambling to get as many copies as they could.   I only got one of that one off the stands :frown:...    

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2 hours ago, Brandon Shepherd said:

I still have the one of the first Heritage Catalogues from late 2001, for a Signature Comics auction full of write ups for late Bronze books such as X-Men examples from the Byrne/Clarmont X-Men run, describing 9.4 as a very high grade that you'd be lucky to get. I also have a handful of Bronze Age Action Comics examples in 9.8 where I tracked the cert numbers on GPA and found they sold for several hundred dollars in the 2000s before finding their way to me at lower prices years later, and these aren't even key books. 

I remember going to one of the first graded comic auctions before Heritage got involved.  The name of the auction house is escaping me but was a catalog auction in NJ.  Jay Parrino was moving from coins to comics and had a rep there.  Jim Halperin was there too.  Must have been around the year 2000.  The place was packed with many big dealers. There were gasps from the prices realized.  Parrino got most of the keys. A 9.4 JIM #83 is coming to mind as selling for $35k... a total shock at the time!!  I still have that catalog with the "crazy" prices realized somewhere.

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5 hours ago, Greenlake said:

#300 absolutely had some heat right out of the gate, just not full-blown 90s craziness. I missed the month it came out and it was one of the only times I ever considered buying multiple copies of a recent issue, but the ads it was headlining already had it at $5 a copy and I figured everybody else was already buying it so there was probably no potential there.

There were multiple ads showing the book for sale...East Coast Comics, Mile High, J&S, etc...for $2-$5 4-8 months after the book came out. Do you have any ads that show it was a $5 book "the month it came out"? Or any market reports that mention the book specifically, or McFarlane in general?

Since we can't quantify what "some heat" means, the only way to measure these things is 1. availability in the aftermarket (which it was) and 2. price. A GREAT example of a book that had "heat right out of the gate", and from roughly the same time period, is Batman #428. That book was an instant sellout, and was vacuumed out of the marketplace. It wasn't available from ANY of the major national mail order dealers, and wouldn't be until the market stabilized a bit...at which point, prices for it were in the $8-$15 range (pretty astonishing for a 75 cent new book.) It was the front page book in the Overstreet Bulletin shortly after it came out.

As I stated...for a good 3-4 years, #298 was THE book to have, and #300 was a close second. It wasn't until the arrival of ASM #361 that #300 started to overtake, and then leave in the dust, #298, never to look back.

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3 hours ago, Brandon Shepherd said:

I still have the one of the first Heritage Catalogues from late 2001, for a Signature Comics auction full of write ups for late Bronze books such as X-Men examples from the Byrne/Clarmont X-Men run, describing 9.4 as a very high grade that you'd be lucky to get. I also have a handful of Bronze Age Action Comics examples in 9.8 where I tracked the cert numbers on GPA and found they sold for several hundred dollars in the 2000s before finding their way to me at lower prices years later, and these aren't even key books. 

Great comment. Heritage...or the greater market....did NOT understand the Bronze Age very well, which, at the time, was a new designation. They certainly did not understand that there is a vast, vast change that occurred from 1974-1976 that is easily observable. They're right if they're referring to books from 1970-1974. They're completely wrong about it as it refers to very high grade copies of the New X-Men run. There are some books that are very tough in 9.8....#94, #96-99, #107, #116....relative to the rest of the run, but 9.4...? You could probably assemble a complete set for less than $5,000.

Of course...in fairness, this was before pressing was widespread, so they did have *some* point...but they still weren't anywhere near as rare as they'd made them seem.

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3 hours ago, Brandon Shepherd said:

I still have the one of the first Heritage Catalogues from late 2001, for a Signature Comics auction full of write ups for late Bronze books such as X-Men examples from the Byrne/Clarmont X-Men run, describing 9.4 as a very high grade that you'd be lucky to get. I also have a handful of Bronze Age Action Comics examples in 9.8 where I tracked the cert numbers on GPA and found they sold for several hundred dollars in the 2000s before finding their way to me at lower prices years later, and these aren't even key books. 

I think the first time I became shocked at the prices that CGC books were getting was when one of the Overstreet updates came out and had a picture of a HG Shadow Comics #1 that had sold for $2,500.  Not the GA Shadow 1 by Street & Smith or even the BA Shadow 1 by Kaluta, but rather the BA common as dirt one by Howard Chaykin.  :whatthe:  :whatthe:  :whatthe:

I thought at the time it must have been nothing more than a typo or had misplaced the decimal point and they really meant only $25.  I guess not so much, even though to this day I still can't fathom why somebody would pay $2,500 for a book that to this day is still considered to be fodder and can be found in the dollar or even 25 cent box at some of the local cons.  Makes me wonder how the buyer is feeling about his purchase now 20 years later.  hm  :tonofbricks:

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1 hour ago, EastEnd1 said:

The place was packed with many big dealers. There were gasps from the prices realized.  Parrino got most of the keys. A 9.4 JIM #83 is coming to mind as selling for $35k... a total shock at the time!!  I still have that catalog with the "crazy" prices realized somewhere.

Yes, and sad to say, but Jay lost a ton of money with his purchases since he was indeed paying "crazy" prices at the time and also did not have the patience to stay in the market long enough for it to catch up to the prices which he had paid for them.  :tonofbricks:

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40 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Great comment. Heritage...or the greater market....did NOT understand the Bronze Age very well, which, at the time, was a new designation. They certainly did not understand that there is a vast, vast change that occurred from 1974-1976 that is easily observable. They're right if they're referring to books from 1970-1974. They're completely wrong about it as it refers to very high grade copies of the New X-Men run. There are some books that are very tough in 9.8....#94, #96-99, #107, #116....relative to the rest of the run, but 9.4...? You could probably assemble a complete set for less than $5,000.

Of course...in fairness, this was before pressing was widespread, so they did have *some* point...but they still weren't anywhere near as rare as they'd made them seem.

C1BF2EE2-E847-4F6C-B529-0B7E95DC9F48.thumb.jpeg.cb2de0cebb1e5cdc899328968f87c54e.jpeg0CFAEDE5-A912-4345-9072-B7119286F83A.thumb.jpeg.be1b3bf60c4e54523cd8078e7f1fa72f.jpeg825F45FB-787B-4B2C-91AA-70F7AF39D2A7.thumb.jpeg.2d0a5993efe02bf4415ab9f804328ebd.jpeg

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Ahhh................I've got a copy of this Heritage Auction Catalogue somewhere around the house here.

I am not sure how I got myself on their "junk" mailing lists since I guess I've been receiving catalogues from them right from the get go then.  (shrug)

Actually, one of the very few junk mailing lists I don't mind being on.  (thumbsu

Especially since my wife looks at the price tag on the back and thinks its worth $50 that I somehow managed to get for free.  :bigsmile:

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