Share your Sandman Art! 4 4

[ESeffinga]

For folks that wanted a copy of the catalog I mentioned earlier, it looks like it is still available on the Cartoon Art Museum’s site...

 

If you are at all a Sandman fan, I highly encourage you to pick one up. The breadth and depth of the catalog is pretty astounding. Especially when you look in the back at the acknowledgements and see how much came from one individual’s collection.

My old Sandman cover is in there. I’d forgotten that, though I knew where it was, since I sold it a decade ago to the same individual. Fun to see it again.

https://www.cartoonart.org/store/grains-of-sand-25-years-of-the-sandman-exhibition-catalog

[dichotomy]

Albert has a Keith page up in the new update. From issue 1...

 

http://www.albertmoy.com/gallerypiece.asp?Piece=15627

[pestonaccio]

16 hours ago, dichotomy said:

Albert has a Keith page up in the new update. From issue 1...

 

http://www.albertmoy.com/gallerypiece.asp?Piece=15627

Last time (a couple of months ago) Albert posted a page from issue 1, it was bought in a couple of hours for 7 grands (if my memory helps me); this time, still no buyer. Weird (I doubt the +2K have a big influence).

I will try to upload on CAF a couple of new pieces and then will post them here too. Laziness after summer break.

But I keep wondering: how is it possible that with 75X22 pages being drawn, it's almost impossible to find a good page these days?

 

[dichotomy]

1 hour ago, pestonaccio said:

Last time (a couple of months ago) Albert posted a page from issue 1, it was bought in a couple of hours for 7 grands (if my memory helps me); this time, still no buyer. Weird (I doubt the +2K have a big influence).

I will try to upload on CAF a couple of new pieces and then will post them here too. Laziness after summer break.

But I keep wondering: how is it possible that with 75X22 pages being drawn, it's almost impossible to find a good page these days?

 

I keep wondering the same thing. But apparently LS so...

I would have gone for the 7k page, I liked it a lot. For me, 9k is too much for this page. 

[ESeffinga]

2 hours ago, pestonaccio said:

 I keep wondering: how is it possible that with 75X22 pages being drawn, it's almost impossible to find a good page these days?

 

Keep in mind, Sandman is an "unusual" comic book in that it isn't a book about Dream. The ultimate story is about dreams, and ultimately his is the core story arc, but the cast of characters is gigantic, and Morpheus is quite seldomly in the book.
Most people consider a "good" page to be with one of the Endless on it. Preferably the titular Morpheus. But those are quite rare, even within the confines of that comic, relative to say amount of time Batman is in a Batman comic, etc.

Another important issue is that Sandman's audience was initially much more diverse than that of most comics. There were many Sandman fans that read no other comics. But they would go into comic shops for Sandman related material only. And they would go to conventions strictly to meet Neil and the artists on those books. Its entirely possible that some of these people are not what we would consider comic art "collectors", but did end up buying up some of that art from those artists. Possibly early on when the stuff wasn't more than a couple hundred bucks a page. Even back then it wasn't easy to find the stuff. I know, because I tried.

Lastly, the audience for Sandman has exploded over the last 3 decades.

So a massive audience today, some of which don't participate in the usual ways we are used to, and a book that even at it's source doesn't have a lot of "ideal" material to begin with.
I dare say all of those reasons play pretty heavily into that difficulty in finding pages.

 

[pestonaccio]

I agree with you, Eric, but what puzzles me is that even if the pages with Dream are scarce, they never show up. In the last year they auctioned a couple of pages without Endless and nothing else. Nothing.

Let's take Watchmen as an example: we have 12 issues and just a few pages have the heroes on them. We are talking about one of the most important comic book ever, movie and future HBO TV show... Pages are more available in auctions than Sandman's!

Yes, probably because Sandman has a different fan base... 

 

[ESeffinga]

I feel like I usually see 4 or 5 pages a year, give it take a few. In fact I feel like I see more now than I ever did back when they were new and should have been plentiful. 

As a side story, a few years ago (3 or 4 maybe), I saw a guy post one of Kent Williams’ Fear of Falling pages to eBay. This seller posted 3 or 4 random comic OA pages. All from Vertigo books. All with BIN prices of around $250-350.

That KW page should have been at least $1200-1500.  Maybe twice that. So not quite Swamp Thing level of score, but that same sort of uninformed mindset. I think he listed them for roughly what he paid, and they all sold within an hour or two I think.

I can’t help but wonder if more of that art would turn up if the folks that owned it were aware of those page values in today’s dollars.

As you say, so little shows up. And where would they check? eBay?

How many would be aware of what Heritage is, much less think to check there?

[pestonaccio]

1 hour ago, ESeffinga said:

I feel like I usually see 4 or 5 pages a year, give it take a few. In fact I feel like I see more now than I ever did back when they were new and should have been plentiful. 

As a side story, a few years ago (3 or 4 maybe), I saw a guy post one of Kent Williams’ Fear of Falling pages to eBay. This seller posted 3 or 4 random comic OA pages. All from Vertigo books. All with BIN prices of around $250-350.

That KW page should have been at least $1200-1500.  Maybe twice that. So not quite Swamp Thing level of score, but that same sort of uninformed mindset. I think he listed them for roughly what he paid, and they all sold within an hour or two I think.

I can’t help but wonder if more of that art would turn up if the folks that owned it were aware of those page values in today’s dollars.

As you say, so little shows up. And where would they check? eBay?

How many would be aware of what Heritage is, much less think to check there?

Maybe I have been unlucky, but I haven't been able to see these pages in auction. Damn!

So basically your point of view is that many pages might be in the hands of people that have nothing do with comic art and comics, because they were only into sandman; when the series ended they just stopped going to shops and didn't buy any other comic... Makes sense.  Furthermore these people know nothing about these pages' value, so they might keep them in drawers with other useless prints or might auction them on eBay for nickels or sell then on Craigslist/thrift shops for few dollars. Makes sense again. I just hope those pages won't be lost. 

Ps: would it be possible that Sam Kieth still owns pages from the first issues, consider two pages have been on sale from his rep in the last months? 

[NicoV]

2 hours ago, pestonaccio said:

I agree with you, Eric, but what puzzles me is that even if the pages with Dream are scarce, they never show up. In the last year they auctioned a couple of pages without Endless and nothing else. Nothing.

At least 3 pages with Dream sold this year, and a few more without Dream (the last one from Kelley Jones a few weeks ago on eBay). That's not a lot of pages, for sure ... and the best way to get a page is probably to offer far more than FMV to someone who does not sell, as I did a few years ago.

 

[pestonaccio]

20 minutes ago, NicoV said:

At least 3 pages with Dream sold this year, and a few more without Dream (the last one from Kelley Jones a few weeks ago on eBay). That's not a lot of pages, for sure ... and the best way to get a page is probably to offer far more than FMV to someone who does not sell, as I did a few years ago.

 

Let's try to define FMV, as the few auctions didn't help me clear my mind.

Apart from particular issues (1, 8, Shakespeare's issue, 50) how much an "average" page with dream is worth?

1) Kieth first issues

2) dringenberg the doll's  house

3) Kelley Jones season of mists

4) Thompson brief lives

5) Hempel kindly ones

6) McManus a game of you

7) others that I can't remember now and wiki is down

8) death first mini by Bachalo featuring the big sister.

 

 

[JoeRock]

I used to own a Season of Mists Jones Lucifer page, I ended up making a deal with the boogie men of art dealers. I love  Sandman, but I just loved Moore/Totleben/Bissette Swampy a bit more. But I still have this awesome Bookmark drawn/colored Merv by Marc Hempel, best way to reread Sandman haha

[igotnogame]

A little late to the party... 

[tth2]

8 hours ago, pestonaccio said:

I agree with you, Eric, but what puzzles me is that even if the pages with Dream are scarce, they never show up. In the last year they auctioned a couple of pages without Endless and nothing else. Nothing.

This page, featuring Morpheus, was auctioned on Hake's earlier this year:

 

[igotnogame]

Couple more things.  The McKean commissions were inspired by the page where Dream would go to the room with the family member sigils.

[tth2]

8 hours ago, pestonaccio said:

Let's take Watchmen as an example: we have 12 issues and just a few pages have the heroes on them. We are talking about one of the most important comic book ever, movie and future HBO TV show... Pages are more available in auctions than Sandman's!

12 issues is a whole lot less than 75 issues.

But in any event, the price differential between the two titles probably makes a huge difference on supply.  I don't know the pricing of Sandman pages at all because, as you say, they don't come up for auction very often (at least not in the auction houses that I typically follow).  My impression is that the minimum price for a Watchmen page is $20k, which is high enough to draw out a constant supply. 

What's the minimum price for a Sandman page, particularly one featuring Morpheus?  The page I posted above, which features Morpheus and comes from the classic "Doll's House" arc, went for a bit over $14k.  Is that enough to get people to part with their prized pages? 

 

[pestonaccio]

4 hours ago, tth2 said:

12 issues is a whole lot less than 75 issues.

But in any event, the price differential between the two titles probably makes a huge difference on supply.  I don't know the pricing of Sandman pages at all because, as you say, they don't come up for auction very often (at least not in the auction houses that I typically follow).  My impression is that the minimum price for a Watchmen page is $20k, which is high enough to draw out a constant supply. 

What's the minimum price for a Sandman page, particularly one featuring Morpheus?  The page I posted above, which features Morpheus and comes from the classic "Doll's House" arc, went for a bit over $14k.  Is that enough to get people to part with their prized pages? 

 

That page you posted was auctioned on Hakes (as I remember being the higher bidder for many days!) And my idea is that if it was on Ha it would have scored more.

Anyway, I think it would be interesting trying to figure out an average FMV on sandman pages. I am pretty sure we all.will have different ideas as there are not enough public results.

Who wants to be first?

1) Kieth first issues

2) dringenberg the doll's  house

3) Kelley Jones season of mists

4) Thompson brief lives

5) Hempel kindly ones

6) McManus a game of you

7) others that I can't remember now and wiki is down 

8) death first mini by Bachalo featuring the big sister.

[ESeffinga]

All those Dee pages... 🔥🔥🔥

And the Wake pages too? 😭

[pestonaccio]

49 minutes ago, ESeffinga said:

All those Dee pages... 🔥🔥🔥

And the Wake pages too? 😭

I was ignoring him!

[igotnogame]

4 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

All those Dee pages... 🔥🔥🔥

And the Wake pages too? 😭

Yeah, was very lucky to land what I have in my collection back in the day.  Definitely was a challenge to find them back then like they are now.  

Pages that I used to own -

The death of the Corinthian page from Doll's house, a great all Death and Dream page from Seasons issue 21, pg 23 "I am not doing well at all", and a Brief Lives page that had Dream in one panel.

The Dringenberg Dee page was one of the first pages I bought in 1992, along with the Doll's House page.  The game show pages from issue 4 are my grails - got them when I was helping out at a booth at SDCC in the 90s.  Guy came by the booth and haf art he wanted to trade for comics.  Pulls them out, I freak out internally, the dealer knew I was searching for them, and the deal was made, and then I worked out the deal for the pages.

The Dee pages from 5 were through Albert's website in the late 90s.  I have thought about trying to complete the sequence for those, but that'll probably not happen.  I remember seeing the Dee killing the woman page before, and know who has the last page of the book.

The Jones page was another mid 90s purchase.  The Wake pages were from the late 90s - Scott Eder put out a ton of them on his website, and I think I grabbed the only Daniel page that was posted at the time.  

Regarding FMV - it's really difficult to say, since the sample size is so small between what little has shown up on dealer sites and for auction.  I was a little surprised with the 9k ask for the page from issue 1 that was mentioned, but I think the scarcity factor is definitely a part of that.

Love what everyone has shared so far.  Hopefully more will come out of the woodwork.

[dichotomy]

On 9/4/2019 at 3:18 PM, ESeffinga said:

For folks that wanted a copy of the catalog I mentioned earlier, it looks like it is still available on the Cartoon Art Museum’s site...

 

If you are at all a Sandman fan, I highly encourage you to pick one up. The breadth and depth of the catalog is pretty astounding. Especially when you look in the back at the acknowledgements and see how much came from one individual’s collection.

My old Sandman cover is in there. I’d forgotten that, though I knew where it was, since I sold it a decade ago to the same individual. Fun to see it again.

https://www.cartoonart.org/store/grains-of-sand-25-years-of-the-sandman-exhibition-catalog

This thing is amazing. Speedy shipping too!