Buscema Drawing Legit ? 0

[rrichards]

Hi All,

 I'm usually very cautious about sketches but this one caught my eye on ebay. What do you folks think? It looks like Big Johns scribble technique but I'm a little suspicious about the character on the lower left and the fact that it is not on art board. What do you think?(Here's the listing:)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hulk-Sabertooth-Hand-Sketch-Signed-art-by-John-Buscema-RIP-Pencils-8-5X11/264444017854?hash=item3d92177cbe:g:xogAA

[kav]

looks like more like a john byrne attempt.  buscema sig doesnt look anything like a real one.  typically buscema is so straight it looks like a ruler was used.  spacing in buscema looks suspicious.  maybe @James J Johnson can clarify.

[James J Johnson]

1 hour ago, kav said:

looks like more like a john byrne attempt.  buscema sig doesnt look anything like a real one.  typically buscema is so straight it looks like a ruler was used.  spacing in buscema looks suspicious.  maybe @James J Johnson can clarify.

As an artist, you'd know far better than me about the drawing itself. The Buscema sig is odd, but the general path of the pen as signed; its overall telemetry is in the ballpark for Buscema, though there are characters that appear untypical, or rather less used to as often seen. For instance, parts of the B are off, but the connection is typical. If that's his sketch, and that's authentic, it could be that however he was holding the implement to sketch it, he didn't re-adjust his grasp of the implement to sign normally, as when you hand a person a pen and its held by the signer in typical signing hand posture. He could have been holding the pen at the halfway point or closer to the top away from the point, signing it with the same posture he sketched it at, giving it a thinner, wispier, more abbreviated look than when just signing his name and nothing else. The pen is making the right motions, it's just not what we're used to seeing, so hard to pin down.

I have to leave this one up to you, Kav. You're the art guy. If the sketch is true, the autograph follows suit. If the sketch is a fake, then the wispy, atypical parts of the signature's quality is explained.

Edited August 31, 2019 by James J Johnson

[kav]

16 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

As an artist, you'd know far better than me about the drawing itself. The Buscema sig is odd, but the general path of the pen as signed; its overall telemetry is in the ballpark for Buscema, though there are characters that appear untypical, or rather less used to as often seen. For instance, parts of the B are off, but the connection is typical. If that's his sketch, and that's authentic, it could be that however he was holding the implement to sketch it, he didn't re-adjust his grasp of the implement to sign normally, as when you hand a person a pen and its held by the signer in typical signing hand posture. He could have been holding the pen at the halfway point or closer to the top away from the point, signing it with the same posture he sketched it at, giving it a thinner, wispier, more abbreviated look than when just signing his name and nothing else. The pen is making the right motions, it's just not what we're used to seeing, so hard to pin down.

I have to leave this one up to you, Kav. You're the art guy. If the sketch is true, the autograph follows suit. If the sketch is a fake, then the wispy, atypical parts of the signature's quality is explained.

what kills it for me is the no hands.  Buscema can draw hands.  Low grade artists cannot.

[Unca Ben]

Looks like a Buscema rough to me.

 

...then there's this, with a similar composition, posted just because it's interesting due to the similar pose..

 

[rrichards]

Thanks for your response...You are right about artists being able to draw hands (maybe he didn't feel like drawing hands that day).. It seems that the jury is still out on this so I think I'll let it pass.  Thanks to All!

Edited August 31, 2019 by rrichards

[Will_K]

Not really a fan.  But I've personally seen about a dozen iterations by Buscema drawing the same damn thing.  I think it was... Conan holding an umbrella.  I recall the story was Busecma was doing a show in London, I think.  And that was supposed to be the convention book cover... something like that.  At the time I was flipping through them, I didn't think one version was particularly better or different than the other.  Obviously JB thought otherwise.  So the fact that there are multiple images of the same thing should not automatically mean it is "real" or "fake".

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Will_K

[vodou]

12 minutes ago, Will_K said:

Not really a fan.  But I've personally seen about a dozen iterations by Buscema drawing the same damn thing.  I think it was... Conan holding an umbrella.  I recall the story was Busecma was doing a show in London, I think.  And that was supposed to be the convention book cover... something like that.  At the time I was flipping through them, I didn't think one version was particularly better or different than the other.  Obviously JB thought otherwise.  So the fact that there are multiple images of the same thing should not automatically mean it is "real" or "fake".

I agree with all of the above. The only problem is that people are paying more than $15 for these. (Why? I do not know.) At that level, it doesn't really matter if you get hosed or not (and who's going to bother anyway?), you lost a hamburger and fries. And we know that most would not accept that and would instead re-sell to pass the loss on. I haven't looked to see what this is going for, but in general similar hits $150-$350 regularly. That's looney-toons but people are doing it.

[MIL0S]

 

On 8/31/2019 at 9:03 PM, Will_K said:

Not really a fan.  But I've personally seen about a dozen iterations by Buscema drawing the same damn thing.  I think it was... Conan holding an umbrella.  I recall the story was Busecma was doing a show in London, I think.  And that was supposed to be the convention book cover... something like that.  At the time I was flipping through them, I didn't think one version was particularly better or different than the other.  Obviously JB thought otherwise.  So the fact that there are multiple images of the same thing should not automatically mean it is "real" or "fake".

 

Regarding the Buscema 'Conan with Umbrella' image, I have owned two versions of it, the finished image was the convention program cover for the 1999 Raptus convention held in Bergen Norway. And yes although similar each version I've seen was slightly different. 

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1508535

On 8/31/2019 at 9:20 PM, vodou said:

I agree with all of the above. The only problem is that people are paying more than $15 for these. (Why? I do not know.) At that level, it doesn't really matter if you get hosed or not (and who's going to bother anyway?), you lost a hamburger and fries. And we know that most would not accept that and would instead re-sell to pass the loss on. I haven't looked to see what this is going for, but in general similar hits $150-$350 regularly. That's looney-toons but people are doing it.

I love Buscema's prelims and twenty years ago you could pick them up for $5-15 (when his finished pages were $50) but like everything else prices have escalated.  You could say the art market in general has gone 'looney-toons' but if an artists finished work sells for tens of thousands why shouldn't prelims by the same artist cost a couple of hundred bucks?  

[vodou]

29 minutes ago, MIL0S said:

but if an artists finished work sells for tens of thousands why shouldn't prelims by the same artist cost a couple of hundred bucks?  

No. Junk is junk and only chasers will pay more than salvage for junk. Oranges are not apples. That any painting ever sold for $100m doesn't make all paintings worth something more than zero

[Brian Peck]

On 8/31/2019 at 3:45 AM, rrichards said:

Hi All,

 I'm usually very cautious about sketches but this one caught my eye on ebay. What do you folks think? It looks like Big Johns scribble technique but I'm a little suspicious about the character on the lower left and the fact that it is not on art board. What do you think?(Here's the listing:)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hulk-Sabertooth-Hand-Sketch-Signed-art-by-John-Buscema-RIP-Pencils-8-5X11/264444017854?hash=item3d92177cbe:g:xogAA

The signature looks off and don't think the bottom drawing is by Big John. The Hulk I have questions on as well. Ben posted a Hulk penciled and partially inked by Buscema and I have seen John do the same figure a number of times. But seems strange that the rough one has the same parts missing as the most finished one. Usually John draws the same pose but draws the whole figure even if its rough. I question the whole page.