Purchase of the year! 2 2

[stinkininkin]

3 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

I'm sorry,  what?!

This was a dealer, with a booth, at a major national show, who is in the business of buying and selling collectibles who priced all of his items freely and without manipulation from the buyer. 

That seller set a price, as he did for all items in his booth. When the buyer asked the price and was given the price he then paid that price. 

This isn't a doddering senile grandfather who opened his door to some predator, who misled him on the valuation of his items, or forced him to sell something he wasn't going to sell, or gave him a false valuation or price, or even who negotiated him down from a higher price. 

There's no "stink" other than to people who are conflating what really happened (an adult collectibles dealer who voluntarily and freely and without manipulation or influence priced an item he owned and sold it for that price)  with what they are characterizing as having happened (elder abuse or stealing).

Frankly, and given the facts laid out here, I can't see where anyone would decide the fill in the gaps with nefarious descriptions of the buyer's actions...because they aren't present. 

 

100% this.  

[Greenlake]

1 hour ago, Marwai said:

By going public, it has just limited his options.  People are treating it as if he literally stole the art.

This would mean more if people didn't buy and sell stolen OA when given a semi-plausible excuse why it's okay. Taking advantage of someone's ignorance of market prices isn't even a blip on the radar compared to a lot of what happens in the hobby, it's just also not something some of us would do. That's all. I don't see why the buyer would change their plans when most people couldn't care less.

[delekkerste]

1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I'm guessing about 50% of the reason why people with valuable OA don't advertise it is so they can do private sales and cheat the Taxman out of his cut. And, this will make it harder (not impossible!) to get this kind of a deal in the future, because anytime this kind of thing happens, the deal will spread like wildfire in the dealer and the collector community and make all the dealers and sellers that much more cautious. 

Jeez, and I thought I was cynical!  I don't think anyone is worried about the IRS monitoring CAF, especially since buying and selling details aren't recorded on the site by most (and even those who do record that data there, it's only visible to them). 

1 hour ago, Will_K said:

Some years from now, could the art be used as a charity donation to offset capital gains ??

In that scenario, you end up with tax rate x FMV worth of benefit.  If you merely sell the art and pay the taxes, then you end up with (1-tax rate) x FMV worth of benefit.  As long as the tax rate is below 50%, you are better off economically just selling the art.

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

To me it is all arbitrary. Seller sold it, buyer bought it. 

At the end of the day, this is the only thing that matters.  The optics predictably don't look great, which is why I would have kept this  on total lock-down, but, otherwise, I wouldn't have done anything differently than the buyer and could sleep easy at night. 

That said, I do wonder what the public reaction would have been if one or more of the following applied:

- the buyer was a dealer and immediately posted the cover on his website or at the next convention for $100K

- the seller turned out to have a child dying of cancer and had huge medical bills piling up

- the seller was selling the art on consignment and left off two zeroes from the price because he was totally clueless about the art side of the hobby 

- the market value of the art (not this one, obviously, but, something else) turned out to be $1.5 million 

- the seller was a widow of a recently deceased collector who didn't know what she had

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by delekkerste

[delekkerste]

1 hour ago, Marwai said:

if he sells privately, he's just going to get low offers.

Nah.  A lot of people would pay up for it.  The market is absolutely starving for one of the better Bissette/Totleben Swamp Thing covers to become available. 

1 hour ago, glendgold said:

 

A dealer sold something at the price he'd set.  Words like "rectification" and "stole" and "stink" indicate you hate capitalism, apparently.  I do, too, but until the workers seize the means of production, it's just you and me, pal. 

Nah, you've got plenty of company. 

[grapeape]

1 hour ago, glendgold said:

 

A dealer sold something at the price he'd set.  Words like "rectification" and "stole" and "stink" indicate you hate capitalism, apparently.  I do, too, but until the workers seize the means of production, it's just you and me, pal. 

 

 

"F--- the G-Ride, I want the machines that are making them."----- R A M

[batman_fan]

Let’s play a new game, what if the dealer selling was Chuck from Milehigh?  How about Doug from Pedigree?  Would people feel different?  I picked these two because there is a lot of animosity towards them but pick any dealer that there is a wide dislike for.  Would the deal be fine?

[grapeape]

15 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Nah.  A lot of people would pay up for it.  The market is absolutely starving for one of the better Bissette/Totleben Swamp Thing covers to become available. 

Nah, you've got plenty of company. 

I agree. I actually believe if it was offered up now it would do very well at auction. Or in a private sale. Either way I hope the buyer just enjoys it. He obviously valued it more than the seller. I don't know how long the seller owned this piece. It would have taken one phone call by that seller to HA for example to learn he had a very valuable piece of art. 

[delekkerste]

7 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

Let’s play a new game, what if the dealer selling was Chuck from Milehigh?  How about Doug from Pedigree?  Would people feel different?  I picked these two because there is a lot of animosity towards them but pick any dealer that there is a wide dislike for.  Would the deal be fine?

If people thought it was fine buying from a dealer they had no opinion about, they're obviously going to feel it was even more fine if the buyer bought it from a dealer they didn't like, C-Nutz.  

[batman_fan]

2 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

If people thought it was fine buying from a dealer they had no opinion about, they're obviously going to feel it was even more fine if the buyer bought it from a dealer they didn't like, C-Nutz.  

I meant it for the people that think it is bad to take the deal and not pay fair market 

And that’s Mr P-Nutz 

[comix4fun]

49 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

That said, I do wonder what the public reaction would have been if one or more of the following applied:

- the buyer was a dealer and immediately posted the cover on his website or at the next convention for $100K

- the seller turned out to have a child dying of cancer and had huge medical bills piling up

- the seller was selling the art on consignment and left off two zeroes from the price because he was totally clueless about the art side of the hobby 

- the market value of the art (not this one, obviously, but, something else) turned out to be $1.5 million 

- the seller was a widow of a recently deceased collector who didn't know what she had

 

You forgot...."behind the artwork in the frame was an original Declaration of Independence" and 

"Written on the back of the Declaration is Independence was a hand-drawn map to One-Eyed Willie's treasure."

Edited September 3, 2019 by comix4fun

[Bronty]

Just now, batman_fan said:

I meant it for the people that think it is bad to take the deal and not pay fair market 

And that’s Mr P-Nutz 

As you're implying the people who think its wrong would suddenly think its right if it was from Chuck... heck they'd probably crow about just desserts.

Which proves how arbitrary and meaningless any attempt at constructing fairness in this situation is.   There is no fairness; there is offer and acceptance.    If I pay 10k for something worth 20k, if I owe the guy 10k then he should pay me back 5k if it dips 5k, no?   Its all fantasy land BS.    Bought, sold, finished.

[Bronty]

1 minute ago, comix4fun said:

You forgot...."behind the artwork in the frame was an original Declaration of Independence" and 

"Written on the back of the Declaration is Independence was a hand-drawn map the One-Eyed Willie's treasure."

One eyed willie?   Uh, I hope that's a pirate reference.

[PhilipB2k17]

This thread summed up. 

[delekkerste]

2 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Which proves how arbitrary and meaningless any attempt at constructing fairness in this situation is.   There is no fairness; there is offer and acceptance.  

Yep - at the end of the day, that's all that needs to be said.  Whether the buyer was "a good guy", or the seller was a dealer or whatever is extraneous and prone to selective judgment and personal bias. 

[zhamlau]

18 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

If you're implying the buyer did anything wrong by talking about this purchase, I can't agree.  I think we DO agree we would have made the same purchase given the circumstances.  But the fact that it is one of those once in a lifetime scores that was not kept secret and it's now being talked about on a message board, where's the harm?  I know that some collectors like to keep certain aspects of their holdings and prices kept private, but I heard about this from multiple sources, and I don't even know the buyer (or even who the buyer is!).  The only person that made a mistake, and who I DO feel bad for is the seller.  To buy a booth at a major convention and be that uninformed about what they themselves are selling is sad, but he has to own his mistake and it's certainly not beholden on the buyer to tell him what he has. 

Disagree, you keep it quiet. I’ve learned the hard way never share when you score, too many folks will try and salt the experience and if in anyway possible try and ruin the deal or at least make it as difficult as possible. 

You hide major scores, it’s just easier for all parties involved.

[zhamlau]

1 hour ago, grapeape said:

"F--- the G-Ride, I want the machines that are making them."----- R A M

They don’t have to burn the books either.

[grapeape]

There is no moral ambiguity here. Unless there are details to the story we’re not privy too this was a legit transaction. 

Here’s what I would love to see from a car wreck busy body observer perspective. To the lucky buyer. Please Please Please 

1) Flip this quickly in 2020 HA auction or

2) list it for buy it now $100k on eBay and off all the saints on the chat board.

The quicker you flip it the sooner we know

1) What a great deal you made

2) What a greedy you are

Then we can move this thread to FLIP OF THE DAY and eat popcorn while the haves and the have nots squabble over what’s acceptable.

Look I can think of a few instances where the seller might be a cad. This ain’t one of them.

I don’t know the buyers intentions either. Did he just land a I’ll never sell this it goes in the permanent collection grail?

Would the puritans like to let us know what the proper amount of mourning time the buyer has to observe before he can sell this find?

Heres a proposition 

I am offering the buyer $16000 cash right now for the cover. The offer stands until Sunday at midnight. It’s not 50 k but it’s cash and I’ll relieve you of any guilt you might feel for paying the seller the price he asked for.

Oh and two more conditions: You have to split the16k I give you with the convention seller. And donate a thank you fee  $1600 to the comic artist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[grapeape]

2 hours ago, zhamlau said:

They don’t have to burn the books either.

Amen

[comix4fun]

Just now, grapeape said:

There is no moral ambiguity here. Unless there are details to the story we’re not privy too this was a legit transaction. 

Here’s what I would love to see from a car wreck busy body observer perspective. To the lucky buyer. Please Please Please 

1) Flip this quickly in 2020 HA auction or

2) list it for buy it now $100k on eBay and off all the saints on the chat board.

The quicker you flip it the sooner we know

1) What a great deal you made

2) What a greedy you are

Then we can move this thread to FLIP OF THE DAY and eat popcorn while the haves and the have nots squabble over what’s acceptable.

Look I can think of a few instances where the seller might be a cad. This ain’t one of them.

I don’t know the buyers intentions either. Did he just land a I’ll never sell this it goes in the permanent collection grail?

Would the puritans like to let us know what the proper amount of mourning time the buyer has to observe before he can sell this find?

Heres a proposition 

I am offering the buyer $16000 cash right now for the cover. The offer stands until Sunday at midnight. It’s not 50 k but it’s cash and I’ll relieve you of any guilt you might feel for paying the seller the price he asked for.

Oh and two more conditions: You have to split the16k I give you with the convention seller. And donate a thank you fee  $1600 to the comic artist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[grapeape]

3 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

It’s like when u hit submit on a CAF COMMENT AND IT POSTS FOUR TIMES.