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148 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

I’ve never had an appreciation for the Alan Moore stuff (single exception being the Killing Joke) so I’m asking as someone totally ignorant to the valuations of the Moore Swamp Thing run...within +/- $10K. What do YOU think this work of sell for at HA, with the ‘juice’ ?  (shrug)

I'm going to guess $55K plus or minus $10K. The market is starved for one of the really good covers from this run to turn up at auction. Nobody should mistake this for one of those B covers from the run that would sell in the teens or low $20Ks; I would easily pay somewhere in the $30Ks myself for it.  

Edited by delekkerste
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6 hours ago, glendgold said:

 

A dealer sold something at the price he'd set.  Words like "rectification" and "stole" and "stink" indicate you hate capitalism, apparently.  I do, too, but until the workers seize the means of production, it's just you and me, pal. 

 

 

Wrong Assumption.

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6 hours ago, comix4fun said:

I'm sorry,  what?!

This was a dealer, with a booth, at a major national show, who is in the business of buying and selling collectibles who priced all of his items freely and without manipulation from the buyer. 

That seller set a price, as he did for all items in his booth. When the buyer asked the price and was given the price he then paid that price. 

This isn't a doddering senile grandfather who opened his door to some predator, who misled him on the valuation of his items, or forced him to sell something he wasn't going to sell, or gave him a false valuation or price, or even who negotiated him down from a higher price. 

There's no "stink" other than to people who are conflating what really happened (an adult collectibles dealer who voluntarily and freely and without manipulation or influence priced an item he owned and sold it for that price)  with what they are characterizing as having happened (elder abuse or stealing).

Frankly, and given the facts laid out here, I can't see where anyone would decide the fill in the gaps with nefarious descriptions of the buyer's actions...because they aren't present. 

 

As far as I know there was nothing nefarious about the transaction.   But there are bad optics here.

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1 hour ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

I’ve never had an appreciation for the Alan Moore stuff (single exception being the Killing Joke) so I’m asking as someone totally ignorant to the valuations of the Moore Swamp Thing run...within +/- $10K. What do YOU think this work of sell for at HA, with the ‘juice’ ?  (shrug)

Values aside, the Swamp Thing run is where Moore really hit his stride. It's not the extraordinarily verbose but entertaining early work of V or Marvelman/Miracleman and before the rockstar elevation of Watchmen and Killing Joke. 

It was Moore at his lean, mean best. He said more with less words than at any time in his career. It was a lightning-in-a-bottle moment in time, and the raw clay of a under-appreciated and under-utilized character in Swamp Thing was the perfect platform to create something really timeless. 

It is my favorite of all of Moore's ongoing comics work. He had one shots and gn's I appreciate as much (Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow and For the Man Who Has Everything, Killing Joke) but for ongoing work he really created something that could not be improved upon with his Swamp Thing work. 

To think about it that's where the love, appreciation, nostalgia and $$$ may be coming from. 

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3 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Values aside, the Swamp Thing run is where Moore really hit his stride. It's not the extraordinarily verbose but entertaining early work of V or Marvelman/Miracleman and before the rockstar elevation of Watchmen and Killing Joke. 

It was Moore at his lean, mean best. He said more with less words than at any time in his career. It was a lightning-in-a-bottle moment in time, and the raw clay of a under-appreciated and under-utilized character in Swamp Thing was the perfect platform to create something really timeless. 

It is my favorite of all of Moore's ongoing comics work. He had one shots and gn's I appreciate as much (Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow and For the Man Who Has Everything, Killing Joke) but for ongoing work he really created something that could not be improved upon with his Swamp Thing work. 

To think about it that's where the love, appreciation, nostalgia and $$$ may be coming from. 

Also, this is the run that launched Vertigo, and was the beginning of the "British Invasion" in comics.  There's many a reason why (IMO) his swamp thing run should be held in high regard.

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On 9/2/2019 at 11:34 AM, stinkininkin said:

Don't know if this got around much, but at last weeks Toronto FanFest, a dealer had the cover to Swampthing #37 framed and up on his wall for sale for...get this...$800 bucks.  Not just an Alan Moore era ST cover, but the issue with the first appearance of John Constantine.  Of course it was quickly bought by a collector who does collect this stuff.  This cover was confirmed by a reputable dealer that it was the real deal upon inspection, no stat or fake.  Crazy!  I didn't think this kind of thing ever happened anymore, and reminded me of the days when as a kid I would hit yard sales and Goodwill thinking I would strike comic book gold.  Too bad the seller didn't do his due diligence (how is that possible???) and a lucky strike for the collector/buyer, eh?

snitch hm

 

hee hee

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On 9/2/2019 at 9:34 AM, stinkininkin said:

Don't know if this got around much, but at last weeks Toronto FanFest, a dealer had the cover to Swampthing #37 framed and up on his wall for sale for...get this...$800 bucks.  Not just an Alan Moore era ST cover, but the issue with the first appearance of John Constantine.  Of course it was quickly bought by a collector who does collect this stuff.  This cover was confirmed by a reputable dealer that it was the real deal upon inspection, no stat or fake.  Crazy!  I didn't think this kind of thing ever happened anymore, and reminded me of the days when as a kid I would hit yard sales and Goodwill thinking I would strike comic book gold.  Too bad the seller didn't do his due diligence (how is that possible???) and a lucky strike for the collector/buyer, eh?

I completely blame you.  If you weren’t magnetic and charming I may have done something else than stalk your table and buy you drinks at night.  Be warned collectors, you will be flabberstunned with affection if Scott is at a show and be denied finds like this!!

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14 hours ago, batman_fan said:

So what is the threshold on getting a good deal?  If you get something 20% cheaper than the real value are you a dirtbag?  How about 1/2 the value?  How about 10% the value?  To me it is all arbitrary. Seller sold it, buyer bought it. If it is legit, buyer did very well. 

It all depends on how high a horse you ride.

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9 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

was the beginning of the "British Invasion" in comics.  There's many a reason why (IMO) his swamp thing run should be held in high regard.

Very true. Agree on both counts.

9 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

Also, this is the run that launched Vertigo

Vertigo? Not quite so much? In a knock-on effect sort of way, for sure.


Moore's Swamp Thing definitely set the template for a writer to take an existing forgotten about character and to use it as a vehicle to totally reinvent what a comic story could be. That was it's biggest groundbreaking contribution. It pointed a new way, and the books that Vertigo was formed out of were all using that template by that point. Moore was done with ST by 87. Vertigo didn't come about until 93.

ST is certainly what got the ball rolling for the recruitment of UK writers to do similar serious things with un-serious characters like Sandman, Shade the Changing Man, House of Secrets, etc and so on. Berger essentially gave a number of young writers and artists the opportunity to do re-mold their choice of a number of unloved characters. But it was Sandman's eventual hulking financial success, combined with Berger's push to take a number of the resulting titles and give DC an umbrella for "grown up" comics to exist outside of the DC comics realm, that eventually caused Vertigo to exist. Moore's ST run, while definitely groundbreaking, didn't have the $$$ or other titles yet to make anything like Vertigo necessary.

Sandman wasn't a success at all the first year or so, either. As an early fan, I remember it took a long time for folks to catch on. Sandman was over halfway through its run when DC finally got Vertigo off the ground.
So perhaps a bit nerdy and all semantics, but ST was definitely what got that ball rolling.

 

 

 

Edited by ESeffinga
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I remember seeing something about this as well.    Perhaps the early vertigo issues of swamp thing mentioned that link?    There’s something to it in at least a bit of a concrete way IIRc

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Moore's Swamp Thing relaunched (real) horror in modern comics and turned writers into stars for the first time in comics.  He was the first writer I remember being broken out in the Guide.

Although Moore ended his stint by 1987 or so, he paved the way for writers like Grant Morrison and Neil Gaiman to become stars, and Hellblazer, featuring the John Constantine character he created, was one of the main horror titles at DC.  Ironically, Hellblazer had the weakest writing amongst the key DC titles that would become Vertigo until Garth Ennis took over. 

The confluence of sophisticated writing, star writers and reemergence of real horror (not the namby-pamby horror of BA DC), which can all be attributed to Moore, allowed the creation of Vertigo.

 

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9 hours ago, RS88 said:

I completely blame you.  If you weren’t magnetic and charming I may have done something else than stalk your table and buy you drinks at night.  Be warned collectors, you will be flabberstunned with affection if Scott is at a show and be denied finds like this!!

You are such a pants challenged dork. lol

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3 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

ST is certainly what got the ball rolling for the recruitment of UK writers to do similar serious things with un-serious characters like Sandman, Shade the Changing Man, House of Secrets, etc and so on. Berger essentially gave a number of young writers and artists the opportunity to do re-mold their choice of a number of unloved characters. But it was Sandman's eventual hulking financial success, combined with Berger's push to take a number of the resulting titles and give DC an umbrella for "grown up" comics to exist outside of the DC comics realm, that eventually caused Vertigo to exist. Moore's ST run, while definitely groundbreaking, didn't have the $$$ or other titles yet to make anything like Vertigo necessary.

Sandman wasn't a success at all the first year or so, either. As an early fan, I remember it took a long time for folks to catch on. Sandman was over halfway through its run when DC finally got Vertigo off the ground.
So perhaps a bit nerdy and all semantics, but ST was definitely what got that ball rolling.

 

 

You are correct, I was confusing Swamp Thing and Sandman.

But I think it's fair to say that you can draw a direct line from Swamp Thing to Vertigo.

Edited by Pete Marino
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6 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

Very true. Agree on both counts.

Vertigo? Not quite so much? In a knock-on effect sort of way, for sure.


Moore's Swamp Thing definitely set the template for a writer to take an existing forgotten about character and to use it as a vehicle to totally reinvent what a comic story could be. That was it's biggest groundbreaking contribution. It pointed a new way, and the books that Vertigo was formed out of were all using that template by that point. Moore was done with ST by 87. Vertigo didn't come about until 93.

ST is certainly what got the ball rolling for the recruitment of UK writers to do similar serious things with un-serious characters like Sandman, Shade the Changing Man, House of Secrets, etc and so on. Berger essentially gave a number of young writers and artists the opportunity to do re-mold their choice of a number of unloved characters. But it was Sandman's eventual hulking financial success, combined with Berger's push to take a number of the resulting titles and give DC an umbrella for "grown up" comics to exist outside of the DC comics realm, that eventually caused Vertigo to exist. Moore's ST run, while definitely groundbreaking, didn't have the $$$ or other titles yet to make anything like Vertigo necessary.

Sandman wasn't a success at all the first year or so, either. As an early fan, I remember it took a long time for folks to catch on. Sandman was over halfway through its run when DC finally got Vertigo off the ground.
So perhaps a bit nerdy and all semantics, but ST was definitely what got that ball rolling.

 

 

 

There were many precedents for taking an obscure character and revamping it in interesting ways before Moore’s Swamp thing. Denny O’Neill’s revamp of Green Arrow, is one example. Jim Starlin’s complete re-invention of the Captain Marvel character is another. You could even argue that the reinvention of the X-Men in 1975 qualifies. And Frank Miller’s reinterpretation of Daredevil - deepening the mythology - was contemporaneous to what Moore was doing. Even predated it by a couple of years.  

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I get it, but revamping GL to point out that he cares about the purple skins and not the black skins, while an admirable story on its own, is not the same level of reinvention as taking an existing character and revealing he has been dead for over a decade and is just a plant with his memories.....   ST21 was next level in every way (thumbsu

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