Purchase of the year!
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149 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, Bronty said:

I get it, but revamping GL to point out that he cares about the purple skins and not the black skins, while an admirable story on its own, is not the same level of reinvention as taking an existing character and revealing he has been dead for over a decade and is just a plant with his memories.....   ST21 was next level in every way (thumbsu

Plus Moore reintroduced a genre, on steroids.  Horror was dead in comics.  He singlehandedly brought it back.  My college housemates and I were avid readers of Swamp Thing and we would marvel each month on the sick, twisted stuff that Moore would introduce each month.

And, his writing was simply superior to any writer's before him, setting a standard for those who followed him.  No pure comic writers were ever broken out in the Guide before him.  The Guide would break out an issue written by Harlan Ellison, for example, but that's because he was crossing over from a field in which he was an established star.

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10 hours ago, tth2 said:

Plus Moore reintroduced a genre, on steroids.  Horror was dead in comics.  He singlehandedly brought it back.  My college housemates and I were avid readers of Swamp Thing and we would marvel each month on the sick, twisted stuff that Moore would introduce each month.

And, his writing was simply superior to any writer's before him, setting a standard for those who followed him.  No pure comic writers were ever broken out in the Guide before him.  The Guide would break out an issue written by Harlan Ellison, for example, but that's because he was crossing over from a field in which he was an established star.

Now hold on. Pacific Comics started its horror anthology (Twisted Tales), modeled on the old EC line, two years before Moore started writing Swamp Thing. 

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1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Now hold on. Pacific Comics started its horror anthology (Twisted Tales), modeled on the old EC line, two years before Moore started writing Swamp Thing. 

Yeah, but horror was still a dying genre in the late '70s to early '80s, which was marked more by cancellations than anything else - Warren stopped publishing in 1981; a lot of the DC and Charlton titles ended in the early '80s, Tomb of Dracula ended in 1979 for Marvel; Twisted Tales only lasted 10 issues and was cancelled in 1984, etc.  I think TT had some influence on bringing horror more up-market, but, it was Moore's Swamp Thing run that took everything to the next level. 

It remains one of my favorite runs in comics (I said as much when I was interviewed by Scoop! more than a decade ago); issues #38-39 ("Fish Story") is my favorite storyline within the run, though I love the bats*** crazy issues leading up to issue #50 as well (issue #48 with the nightmare-inducing Invunche was the first issue I picked up contemporaneously, though, of course I later bought and read it all). 

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45 minutes ago, delekkerste said:
2 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Now hold on. Pacific Comics started its horror anthology (Twisted Tales), modeled on the old EC line, two years before Moore started writing Swamp Thing. 

Yeah, but horror was still a dying genre in the late '70s to early '80s, which was marked more by cancellations than anything else - Warren stopped publishing in 1981; a lot of the DC and Charlton titles ended in the early '80s, Tomb of Dracula ended in 1979 for Marvel; Twisted Tales only lasted 10 issues and was cancelled in 1984, etc.  I think TT had some influence on bringing horror more up-market, but, it was Moore's Swamp Thing run that took everything to the next level. 

TT was only slightly less wussy than DC horror.

Swamp Thing had some seriously twisted, dark stuff.  We were constantly going "What kind of person is able to think up this kind of stuff?!"

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If you’re into horror comics and great writing, I highly recommend the ongoing comic series “Ice Cream Man” written by W. Maxwell Price with art by Martin. Some of the most innovative storytelling out there right now. 

https://www.cbr.com/ice-cream-man-comics-scariest-issues/

 

Edited by PhilipB2k17
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On 9/4/2019 at 8:50 AM, tth2 said:

Moore's Swamp Thing relaunched (real) horror in modern comics and turned writers into stars for the first time in comics.  He was the first writer I remember being broken out in the Guide.

Although Moore ended his stint by 1987 or so, he paved the way for writers like Grant Morrison and Neil Gaiman to become stars, and Hellblazer, featuring the John Constantine character he created, was one of the main horror titles at DC.  Ironically, Hellblazer had the weakest writing amongst the key DC titles that would become Vertigo until Garth Ennis took over. 

The confluence of sophisticated writing, star writers and reemergence of real horror (not the namby-pamby horror of BA DC), which can all be attributed to Moore, allowed the creation of Vertigo.

 

Absolutely.  It’s been discussed on the forums before.  I think of ST21, “The Anatomy Lesson”, as the “seeds of Vertigo”.  Certainly the Moore ST run is. Wasn’t the early Vertigo tagline “Comic books for mature readers”?  Or something along those lines?  

Swamp Thing is the first mainstream (ie, DC or Marvel) book that wasn’t about “capes” and that was clearly written for a more educated/“mature” reader.  It explored topics and ideas that were more aimed at college kids (or “advanced” high schoolers).  

The early Vertigo books definitely had a leaning towards “horror/supernatural” as well; Sandman, Hellblazer, Lucifer, etc...

The Moore Swamp Thing influence is undeniable.  

To get back to the original post though, there isn’t one person posting in this thread that wouldn’t have jumped on that 37 cover for $800.  Not one of us.  Is the piece now “tainted”?  I don’t think so.  It’s the cover to the the first app of Constantine.  Maybe ST21 cover would go for more?  But, it’s not Tottlebon/Bissette, which everyone here would agree was the best art team on the run.  It might not be their best cover of the run, but it’s certainly their “best/most important book”.  

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On 9/5/2019 at 3:39 PM, chrisco37 said:

To get back to the original post though, there isn’t one person posting in this thread that wouldn’t have jumped on that 37 cover for $800.  Not one of us.  Is the piece now “tainted”?  I don’t think so.  It’s the cover to the the first app of Constantine.  Maybe ST21 cover would go for more?  But, it’s not Tottlebon/Bissette, which everyone here would agree was the best art team on the run.  It might not be their best cover of the run, but it’s certainly their “best/most important book”.  

I'd probably take this cover over #21, but I'm a Constantine fan. I imagine if all of them are on the table many may opt for #53.

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I’d take 21 in a nanosecond .   Not the best cover as Chris said but the cover to an iconic book is the cover to an iconic book.

Edited by Bronty
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2 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

I'd probably take this cover over #21, but I'm a Constantine fan. I imagine if all of them are on the table many may opt for #53.

#21 is a nice cover, but, it's Yeates, which is a dealbreaker for me since the Dream Team is Moore/Bissette/Totleben (Moore/Totleben also works fine).  #37 is nice and would probably be a shoo-in if Constantine was on the cover...but, he isn't.  #53 has Batman, but it's all Bissette (no Totleben); I would think the #46 (with Phantom Stranger, Hawkman and Batman by Bissette/Totleben) would be preferred by more collectors than the #53.

My personal faves are the #48 - big Swamp Thing figure, the Invunche, just so creepy and very nostalgic for me (1st issue of the run I bought off the stands) - and the #39, which is the better cover of the two-part "Still Waters/Fish Story" underwater vampires storyline (my favorite story in the run). 

My preference would be (in order):  #48, 39, 42 and 46.  The first three are Bissette/Totleben at their creepiest, and the #46 has a great Swampy figure plus 3 other DC heroes and a dead dinosaur (!!) And the later Bis/Tot covers are tighter and more detailed than the ones they did earlier in the run, which is also a plus. 

 

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3 hours ago, Bronty said:

I think 20, 22, 25, 28, 33, 34, annual 2, all are nice.   There’s lots of ones that would be nice but no home runs

Ooh, yes...forgot about Annual #2.  Appropriately creepy, though, wish the Phantom Stranger, Swampy and Demon figures were all larger - would have made for a really killer cover. 

The others are nice, but, the covers from the late 30s through issue #50 are generally tighter/better IMO, than the early 20s to mid-30s ones. #20 and 22 are both by Yeates - nice covers, but, it would be hard to pick a Yeates cover over any of the top half (at least) of the Bissette/Totleben or all-Totleben covers...it would be like getting a Tom Sutton X-Men #106 or Tony DeZuniga X-Men #110 page instead of a Byrne or Cockrum page from the early part of Claremont's X-Men run. OK, special dispensation for #21 being the #21, though, I'd personally much rather have a nice Bissette/Totleben example that's more representative of the run. 2c 

 

Edited by delekkerste
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I'd rank #30 top, but that's at least somewhat nostalgia.  That book changed my life.  Plus I think the Bissette/Totleben art from that period is more to my liking than the later stuff. 

Point taken on Yeates.  He's good, but not the same feel - especially the covers.  The covers to 20-23 feel more like they belong with the pre-Moore books.  

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I have to agree with bisquitodoom, Saga of the Swamp Thing 30 is the best cover from the Moore run (I may have my own selfish reasons for that vote but there it is)! 

I do not intend to hijack the "Purchase of the Year" topic, but with the recent dust up caused by the surfacing of the Swamp Thing 37 cover, I did a little basic internet digging into the covers for the Alan Moore Swamp Thing run and it looks like out of the roughly 45 potential covers (issues 20-64 and the Annual 2), only 11 are officially accounted for out there.  Between CAF, Heritage, and CLink, I counted the following:

24, 28, 29 (which is - I think - an unpublished version), 37, 38, 40, 43, 47, 51, 56, and 57

So where are the others?    

 

 

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I thought the published version of 29 sold at auction quite a few years back, but I may be remembering that wrong.  I bet a lot of them sold to collectors back in the 80's, so who knows where they might all be.  Isn't 34 still considered stolen?  

There's a prelim for 64, but I'm not sure where the published version is.  Shame, since I'd rank that one up there as well - though certainly in a different vein than the others.  But I've always been a big Totleben fan.  

 

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20 hours ago, delekkerste said:

#21 is a nice cover, but, it's Yeates, which is a dealbreaker for me since the Dream Team is Moore/Bissette/Totleben (Moore/Totleben also works fine).  #37 is nice and would probably be a shoo-in if Constantine was on the cover...but, he isn't.  #53 has Batman, but it's all Bissette (no Totleben); I would think the #46 (with Phantom Stranger, Hawkman and Batman by Bissette/Totleben) would be preferred by more collectors than the #53.

My personal faves are the #48 - big Swamp Thing figure, the Invunche, just so creepy and very nostalgic for me (1st issue of the run I bought off the stands) - and the #39, which is the better cover of the two-part "Still Waters/Fish Story" underwater vampires storyline (my favorite story in the run). 

My preference would be (in order):  #48, 39, 42 and 46.  The first three are Bissette/Totleben at their creepiest, and the #46 has a great Swampy figure plus 3 other DC heroes and a dead dinosaur (!!) And the later Bis/Tot covers are tighter and more detailed than the ones they did earlier in the run, which is also a plus. 

 

About issue no. 46, I don't own the cover, but I do have an homage by Tom Mandrake which is supposed to be out by now as the cover for the Swamp Thing run of stories as part of DC's dollar comics line.

It covers all the original characters, plus others from that run. Sadly, no Spectre.

MandrakeSwanpThingCover.thumb.jpg.7528cdb371cee3d2274d92f1a94ec13f.jpg

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For me it comes down to whether or not you’d want a beloved member of your family selling something for $ 800.00 only to find out it was worth $ 50,000.00+.  I wouldn’t want my mother being the seller in that type of hypothetical sale.  Oh, and I wouldn’t want the buyer in my hypothetical sale teaching ethics to my child either.

Edited by Lucky Baru
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