GA 9.4 to 9.6 to 9.8... Observing a trend 3 3

[clarkkentdds]

CGCdata.com supports my assertions...

Plenty of examples there...

 

[Point Five]

I've been trying to press NG books into .5s. Might take a few passes though.

 

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, buttock said:

2 hours ago, october said:

Have I missed this 9.8 explosion? How many books are we talking about here?

I tripped over a stack of them this morning.  They weren't there when I went to bed. 

Well, that's what ends up happening when you get yourself all boozed up and then try to hit the sack for the night.  

It's not a surprise that you missed the bed and ended up falling on your stack of GA comics instead.  With all that excess weight from your booze ladened body, it's actually a surprise they weren't pressed right up to CGC 9.9 levels by the time you got up.  

Makes me wonder if that's what happened with the TOD 10 that managed to fetched $85K in the CL auction last week.  

[Pokecollectoramy]

I havent seen too many 9.8s myself but was shocked when I saw the 9.9 edgar church on metropolis right now!

[MrBedrock]

1 hour ago, clarkkentdds said:

CGCdata.com supports my assertions...

Plenty of examples there...

 

Can you point some of them out to me? I have a hard time telling which 9.4 have been turned into 9.6 and then 9.8.

[MrBedrock]

 

[Gotham Kid]

My guess is there were maybe 1 or 2 Superman books that recently also made 9.8 grade ... Very upsetting perhaps when you were single highest graded owner.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Gotham Kid

[lou_fine]

12 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

Bad as this is though, losing revenue isn't as serious as lost confidence in grading accuracy.

 

3 hours ago, clarkkentdds said:

Last decade's 9.4 is yesterday's 9.6 and today's 9.8. And I don't think it has anything to do with CGC's lax grading. As collectors,  investing in having your books pressed must yield dividends for this business model to work.

I actually don't think we can truly ever question CGC grading from an accuracy point of view, especially since they don't disclose their grading standards.  

As a result, they can and clearly do make subtle changes to their grading standards over time in order to meet their business agenda at the time.  From a pure business point of view, this is totally understandable and in fact, should even be expected to take place.  That is why we should not be surprised when certain near invisible "additional revenue generating" defects are moved to the top of their grading hit list, and yet at the same time, visible defects that might be caused by inferior or improper quality work done during the "enhancement" process moves to the bottom of their hit list when it comes to grading. 

It's almost like they have 2 sets of eyes sometimes.............sharp like an eagle when it comes to certain defects and then almost blind like a bat when it comes to other defects. 

[GomerPyleUSMC]

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, that's what ends up happening when you get yourself all boozed up and then try to hit the sack for the night.  

It's not a surprise that you missed the bed and ended up falling on your stack of GA comics instead.  With all that excess weight from your booze ladened body, it's actually a surprise they weren't pressed right up to CGC 9.9 levels by the time you got up.  

Makes me wonder if that's what happened with the TOD 10 that managed to fetched $85K in the CL auction last week.  

So you're saying the sour smell in my books might actually be BO. Very upsetting.  

[buttock]

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, that's what ends up happening when you get yourself all boozed up and then try to hit the sack for the night.  

It's not a surprise that you missed the bed and ended up falling on your stack of GA comics instead.  With all that excess weight from your booze ladened body, it's actually a surprise they weren't pressed right up to CGC 9.9 levels by the time you got up.  

Makes me wonder if that's what happened with the TOD 10 that managed to fetched $85K in the CL auction last week.  

I booze in the morning.  You get more out of it that way. 

[thunsicker]

9 hours ago, szav said:

I dunno...depends what you consider deep pocketed.  Is that someone who can spend 10k a year on comics or 25k or 100k?

As a matter of simple math I think the pool of deep pocketed buyers (I’d say 25k+ A year) is growing. The general Population goes up and with it demand and prices  .. supply is somewhat unknown for now, but fairly stable, and ultimately finite.

The current boom even in GA seems driven by the overall success of comic related movies.  I think this gets sustained for another 25 to 30 years at least.

As for GA 9.6s and 9.8s and highest graded copies.  For the most part the buyers for these are in the same realm as the original art people... they’re from another planet than me and  I don’t find much point in trying to dissect  the logic of their spending patterns..

They may get left holding the 9.8 GA comic bag, but I’m pretty sure they’re not worried about missing any meals because of it.

 

I won't spend more than 5% of my yearly income on a hobby.  So the 10k a year you mention on the low end would be if I made $200k/year.  The middle range you gave would be what I could consider spending if I made half a million a year and the upper range would be if I made two million.  So either people are 'investing' in comics or people are making a whole heck of a lot more than I think they are.  My guess is the pool who would spend 25k a year is much smaller than you would think.

[tth2]

15 hours ago, Robot Man said:

True but at the same time, I know a lot of people who are being priced out of the hobby. The pool of deep pocketed spenders is shrinking. Sooner or later, some of these people will be stuck holding the bag. 

People have been saying this for literally the entire history of the hobby.

Remember when the WM AF 15 sold for $40k at Sotheby's?  That was an unfathomable amount for a SA book at the time, and so many veteran collectors and dealers ridiculed the buyer, saying he would never get his money back in his lifetime.  

Like pro athlete salaries, the amounts always seem to get more and more unsustainable, and then they go even higher and the prices that seemed crazy yesterday quickly look like a bargain.

[fifties]

16 hours ago, Robot Man said:

As you know, I’m with you Gino. Problem is, we are a shrinking breed of collectors and lovers of the medium. I don’t mind selling books here and there for a small profit to buy books I really want. Problem is, when high grade prices go up, lower grade prices go up even more. For every high grade buyer, there are 10 lower grade buyers that just want to own a copy. Trouble is, much of the stuff I want has finally reached the point for me that I can no longer justify the price I need to pay to obtain it. 

Thats OK though, I’ve been doing it a LONG time. So all I have to do is to open up a few boxes to enjoy all the great books I’ve put away over the years  and feel sorry for the poor suckers that are paying up these days...

Very good observation on the ratio of high grade to lower grade buyers, RM!  And like you, I've been in the game for a LONG time, and have damn near all the books I want.  I absolutely can't believe the prices on reader copies that are being realized on eBay, or offered for from the dealers.  PCH books I paid 2-6 bucks for can now command a couple of zeros -sometimes three- behind what I paid; it's insane.  And try to bag one on eBay on a Sunday at 6pm, when the best ones come up; uh uh, the flippers are out in force; get a VG copy, have it slabbed, resell for a few hundred more.  Disgusting. 

[Timely]

I had a Young Allies #4 that was a 7.5 that got pressed to a 9.2. I bought it as a 9.2 and sold it to a dealer as a 9.2. He pressed it and it came back a 9.4.

Double, triple and quadruple pressings happen all day, every day.

Many pressers press a book twice when the 1st press does not get them their desired results.

[telerites]

I think I was a more content collector before I knew about pressing and numeric grades didn't exist.  At least then, the hobby was more focused on the hobby than investment potential and turnip wringing.

[tth2]

2 hours ago, Timely said:

I had a Young Allies #4 that was a 7.5 that got pressed to a 9.2. I bought it as a 9.2 and sold it to a dealer as a 9.2. He pressed it and it came back a 9.4.

Double, triple and quadruple pressings happen all day, every day.

Many pressers press a book twice when the 1st press does not get them their desired results.

Man I love this hobby! 

[pemart1966]

"A Guaranteed 10 Every Time"  -  the slogan for my new comic pressing business...

 

[Robot Man]

8 hours ago, tth2 said:

People have been saying this for literally the entire history of the hobby.

Remember when the WM AF 15 sold for $40k at Sotheby's?  That was an unfathomable amount for a SA book at the time, and so many veteran collectors and dealers ridiculed the buyer, saying he would never get his money back in his lifetime.  

Like pro athlete salaries, the amounts always seem to get more and more unsustainable, and then they go even higher and the prices that seemed crazy yesterday quickly look like a bargain.

It’s not just comics, it’s everything. I remember 50 cents a gallon gas, A new Mustang for $2500 and a nice 2 bedroom apartment by the beach for $150 a month. I was making $2 or $3 an hour. It’s all relative. I believe a lot of “rich folks” are just as broke as the rest of us just at a higher level.

True comics have gone up in price on a slow and steady pace as long as I have been collecting. But they seem to be going up much faster than most other things.  A high price paid today seems to be a steal a few months later. I attribute it to flippers trying to make a fast buck. Sadly, the thrill of making a quick profit seems to far out weigh the enjoyment of the book it’s self. 

A lot of the fun if this hobby has sadly left me...

[Robot Man]

7 hours ago, fifties said:

Very good observation on the ratio of high grade to lower grade buyers, RM!  And like you, I've been in the game for a LONG time, and have damn near all the books I want.  I absolutely can't believe the prices on reader copies that are being realized on eBay, or offered for from the dealers.  PCH books I paid 2-6 bucks for can now command a couple of zeros -sometimes three- behind what I paid; it's insane.  And try to bag one on eBay on a Sunday at 6pm, when the best ones come up; uh uh, the flippers are out in force; get a VG copy, have it slabbed, resell for a few hundred more.  Disgusting. 

I get you Fifties. We are a rare breed in this hobby. I’m not trying to be one of these “old guys” whining about the “old days”. Just an observation from many years of collecting. Comics have always gone up. I feel that they are rising a little fast for the good of the hobby. If we were selling, we would be laughing all the way to the bank. Luckily, I don’t need the money all that bad. Nor do I need that “quick Instagram thrill” to dump the books I love so much. Just gotton REAL hard to fill in those holes that I still need. At the end of the day, I really don’t NEED to do it unless the price is right. I don’t think I will live long enough to re-read all the great books I already have...

[october]

8 hours ago, tth2 said:

People have been saying this for literally the entire history of the hobby.

Remember when the WM AF 15 sold for $40k at Sotheby's?  That was an unfathomable amount for a SA book at the time, and so many veteran collectors and dealers ridiculed the buyer, saying he would never get his money back in his lifetime.  

Like pro athlete salaries, the amounts always seem to get more and more unsustainable, and then they go even higher and the prices that seemed crazy yesterday quickly look like a bargain.

That's fair, but this time it feels a bit different, at least in some genres. 

Specific to my tastes (and Robotman's): most of pre-code horror took 60 years to go from a dime to $300, then about 5 years to go from $300 to $1000-$10,000. That's a big jump in real dollar terms in a short amount of time. It's taken a lot of us by surprise and left some butthurt and broken dreams in its wake. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by october