APDallas Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Ok. This is getting out of hand. I've noticed a lot "first appearances" as being ads, solicitations, posters, non-comic or anything not related to the actual character being in a COMIC STORY! Can we settle this once and for all. What is the definition of a FIRST APPEARANCE? Is it as simple as when the character literally appears IN STORY for the first time? Or is it something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 The first time they appear. SkintDoctor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 one of the most inconsistent and debated topics on the boards. If you dig around, you'll find all manner of discussion of the topic. It will not be settled to anyone's satisfaction here or anywhere else. But essentially, the market decides, however imperfect, inconsistent, or wrong they might be. Do your own research and collect what you want and like for your personal preferences. If you're hoping to invest or flip, just go with the market and do your best to buy low/sell high on the 1st app, 1st cameo app, 1st app in continuity, 1st cover app, 1st app in advertisement, 1st app in preview comic, all of it. Keys_Collector 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) Comic books are a storytelling medium. Since the beginning of organized fandom, essentially in the '60-'65 period, it has been held that the first appearance of any character is in a storytelling context. There have been virtually no exceptions to this (More Fun #51 is a fairly famous one, and even it has caveats) until the last five or so years. "Ads", "previews", and the like are not "first appearances." The first clue is in the name: "ads"..."previews"...etc. Those who try to push these things as "first appearances" do it almost always because they have a financial motive. Edited September 6, 2019 by RockMyAmadeus Lazyboy, Keys_Collector and SkintDoctor 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Link above takes you to a recent thread poll in comics general. The whole "non-story art, ad or fandom literature as first appearance" debate is something a minority of people seem interested in pushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csaag Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) What about something like Marvel Team Up 1 where Spiderman saves an anonymous black woman. A couple of years later, after the actual intro of Misty Knight, they make mention, in the story that the anonymous woman from issue #3 was indeed Misty Knight Edited September 6, 2019 by csaag typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 10 hours ago, csaag said: What about something like Marvel Team Up 1 where Spiderman saves an anonymous black woman. A couple of years later, after the actual intro of Misty Knight, they make mention, in the story that the anonymous woman from issue #3 was indeed Misty Knight While a character doesn't need to be named in their first appearance, time and creator continuity are large factors in how believable the connection is in a case like that. Especially when it's a nondescript, anonymous person in the original book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 10 hours ago, APDallas said: What is the definition of a FIRST APPEARANCE? Is it as simple as when the character literally appears IN STORY for the first time? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 10 hours ago, revat said: the market decides The market decides only values, which are not determined solely by one factor. The market also usually values significant appearances over appearances in a single panel on the last page, but, again, other factors have influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenosmilus Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 21 hours ago, csaag said: What about something like Marvel Team Up 1 where Spiderman saves an anonymous black woman. A couple of years later, after the actual intro of Misty Knight, they make mention, in the story that the anonymous woman from issue #3 was indeed Misty Knight Valid point however I would argue that at the time MTU #1 was written/drawn, Misty Knight was not conceived. If she was then you might have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APDallas Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 I am trying to collect first appearances of characters. This is my passion. However, one of the most annoying thing is to get waht is supposed to be a "first appearance" and then find out it is not. An example is HUNTRESS. Some people say its DC Superstars #17 (which is a good case since it does feature her on the cover) but then others say it is ALL STAR COMICS #69 (where is has an "introducing" tag line). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 7 hours ago, APDallas said: I am trying to collect first appearances of characters. This is my passion. However, one of the most annoying thing is to get waht is supposed to be a "first appearance" and then find out it is not. An example is HUNTRESS. Some people say its DC Superstars #17 (which is a good case since it does feature her on the cover) but then others say it is ALL STAR COMICS #69 (where is has an "introducing" tag line). Well, that one specifically is a very special (maybe even unique) situation, with two different books released at the same time both containing appearances by the same new character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APDallas Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 Here's another aspect. How important is a COVER appearance in relation to ACTUAL 1st appearance. It seems, for the most part, values can vary widely. I like to collect first appearance covers even though, in a lot of cases, that is not their actual 1st appearance. For instance: FANTASTIC FOUR #49- 1st Galactus and Silver Surfer on cover AMAZING SPIDERMAN #51-1st Kingpin on cover INCREDIBLE HULK 181-1st Wolverine on cover AVENGERS #48-1st Black Knight on cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkintDoctor Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 9/6/2019 at 2:03 PM, RockMyAmadeus said: Comic books are a storytelling medium. Since the beginning of organized fandom, essentially in the '60-'65 period, it has been held that the first appearance of any character is in a storytelling context. There have been virtually no exceptions to this (More Fun #51 is a fairly famous one, and even it has caveats) until the last five or so years. "Ads", "previews", and the like are not "first appearances." The first clue is in the name: "ads"..."previews"...etc. Those who try to push these things as "first appearances" do it almost always because they have a financial motive. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmilwaukee6er Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) For me, a full 1st appearance is threefold The character is shown in full The character is named The character is part of the storyline (e.g. the Hulk 180 vs 181 debate) If all three are not met, then it falls to a cameo. Edited January 17, 2020 by oldmilwaukee6er Keys_Collector and mysterymachine 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark88 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 First app. She-Hulk from Marvel Tales? 1. Character is shown in full. 2. Character is named. 3. Origin is explained. 4. Printed in an appropriate Marvel, DC or independent press comic rather than in Diamond Previews, Wizard mag, Malibu Sun, etc.: grendelbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 On 1/19/2020 at 9:09 PM, aardvark88 said: First app. She-Hulk from Marvel Tales? 1. Character is shown in full. 2. Character is named. 3. Origin is explained. 4. Printed in an appropriate Marvel, DC or independent press comic rather than in Diamond Previews, Wizard mag, Malibu Sun, etc.: Still just an ad. Deadpoolica 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...