Batman 251 Cover
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Neal Adams was doing a live Q&A on FB tonight from a comic book store. I asked his thoughts on the final hammer price of his iconic cover to Batman 251. He responded that he was still in talks w the seller to verify that it was real and the actual OA cover. Until then he couldn't actually say. Ill leave it right there. 

Here is the link. I believe it was around the 42 min mark. 

 

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1 hour ago, NelsonAI said:

Translation:

I will sign a Certificate of Authenticity for 10% of the gross proceeds similar to when the Green Lantern 76 original cover art was auctioned off.

If Consignor is willing to pay, that's great for Neal.

 

I guess not certifying it could place doubts on authenticity and hurt bidding on the art. However the stunning art work speaks for itself. Neal knows that's 100% his piece. I can't blame him for trying but I can't help feeling a bit put off by it if that's his move. Were he to continue later publicly casting aspersions say if unable to meet/make a deal with the consignor that could negatively interfere with the legitimacy (bidding)on the cover. With or without Neal's approval I do believe we're going to see a moon shot final bid.

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2 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

If that’s what is going on, that is a total jerk move, no question. It’s essentially an extortion scheme.

Such bitterness. Unbecoming. But Neal...if it was all about "you" how nobody wants those mountains of Ben Casey strips? Oh yeah...cuz it's not Batman lol

LMK when Neal takes 10% and give 70% of that right back to DC ;)

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Has Neal ever acknowledged doing line by line recreations of the cover?

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9 minutes ago, Bill C said:

Has Neal ever acknowledged doing line by line recreations of the cover?

He has, he sold one a few years ago, but I believe the also hand lettered and inked the title/logo/trade dress so there was no mistaking it for the real thing. 

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2 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

If that’s what is going on, that is a total jerk move, no question. It’s essentially an extortion scheme.

Yeah.   If that’s the case and if I were the seller I’d tell Neal to stuff it where the sun doesn’t shine, to be perfectly honest. 

 

Edited by Bronty

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15 hours ago, dirtymartini1 said:

 

Neal Adams was doing a live Q&A on FB tonight from a comic book store. I asked his thoughts on the final hammer price of his iconic cover to Batman 251. He responded that he was still in talks w the seller to verify that it was real and the actual OA cover. Until then he couldn't actually say. Ill leave it right there. 

Here is the link. I believe it was around the 42 min mark. 

 

Between minute 42-44 Neal clearly calls into question the authenticity of the cover. He infers that there are people calling into question if it’s authentic. 

He throws it out there that if authenticated (by Neal) it could sell for one million dollars. But he doesn’t see it happening if the authenticity of the piece isn’t resolved.

Very bad form Neal. Your expertise 100% not needed here. Read between the lines the artist implies that he can be the key to drive a $1,000,000 final hammer. Or....he can make enough noise to cause doubt and wreck the auction.

Neal you are one of the best artists in comics history. Let it go man. These old pages and covers are only worth this much, (and I take the liberty to speak for a good portion of CGC boardies) BECAUSE WE COLLECTORS ARE INSANE !! Bonkers !! 

Neal I sat through 50 minutes of that auction to hear your own words. Time to start thinking about your legacy. You had 3 drawings in that auction. $500 each and the auctioneer and camera man have no idea if they come with your “COA.” When do the bidders find out? After they buy? Associated with rubbish.

And have to love the auctioneer describing one of the books as “almost near mint.” 

When the caller asks Neal “what do you think the final bid will be on your cover?” The camera man talks over the first part of Neal’s response. Shut up “money” the most intriguing thing to come out of this 55 minute torture fest is Neal’s response. SHUT UP !!!

Absolute rubbish Neal. You are playing a foolish game with the HA auction as an influencer. I want to enjoy this auction remembering that this was IMHO the best cover you ever made. I want your name to be in a positive light when BM 251 lights up the HA scoreboard.

i have no stomach for this public gamesmanship. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’re reaping huge rewards selling to thirsty fans like us. Stop inferring that every older piece coming up for sale might be stolen from you or not authentic. Stop.

Now knowing a bit more about what’s going on any thoughts on the over under $1,000,000?

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, grapeape said:

 

He throws it out there that if authenticated (by Neal) it could sell for one million dollars. But he doesn’t see it happening if the authenticity of the piece isn’t resolved.

 

 

 

Yeah watching that was pretty cringey.    You can see his wheels turning as he's speaking.

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5 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Yeah watching that was pretty cringey.    You can see his wheels turning as he's speaking.

 Bronty I’ve taken 2 hot showers in the last hour to wash away how I feel about this grotesquely off putting shakedown.

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I think there are more than enough general OA / Adams experts who will be able to tell that this is his line, and the original piece.

I also think anyone willing to drop the $ on this will likely be experienced enough with OA to know this is legit, no matter what Adams says.

I don't think his words/what he's hinting at will age well, and am not sure how much they will cause damage to the OA over time. I think the important players (involved with serious bidding) will likley see through this.

The guy may be potentially pulling some shady stuff, but so many artists do things of low character, and so many of us can separate the artist from the art. Especially the artist's actions decades removed from the creation of their prime stuff.

I know nothing of the seller, so can't speak for them. I only know in my current situation, if I had a piece for sale and an artist was leaning towards a cut in this fashion, I wouldn't give it to them as it not only is low character and getting one over on me, but also setting a horrible precedent for other shady artists to follow.

(All this is said with me assuming the worst about Adam's words, and assuming the piece is legit. I may be incorrect on either front)

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24 minutes ago, Bill C said:

I think there are more than enough general OA / Adams experts who will be able to tell that this is his line, and the original piece.

I also think anyone willing to drop the $ on this will likely be experienced enough with OA to know this is legit, no matter what Adams says.

I don't think his words/what he's hinting at will age well, and am not sure how much they will cause damage to the OA over time. I think the important players (involved with serious bidding) will likley see through this.

The guy may be potentially pulling some shady stuff, but so many artists do things of low character, and so many of us can separate the artist from the art. Especially the artist's actions decades removed from the creation of their prime stuff.

I know nothing of the seller, so can't speak for them. I only know in my current situation, if I had a piece for sale and an artist was leaning towards a cut in this fashion, I wouldn't give it to them as it not only is low character and getting one over on me, but also setting a horrible precedent for other shady artists to follow.

(All this is said with me assuming the worst about Adam's words, and assuming the piece is legit. I may be incorrect on either front)

It just feels like he’s leaning on the consignor.In fairness he didn’t publicly ask for a percentage on this one. I am also of the opinion that the collector that would buy this would see through the authenticity nonsense.

However I am taking a stand the same way I would if two neighborhood fellas walked in to my store and told me “Don’t worry, we are here now so no need for anything to go wrong. You’ll be safe so long as you give Bobby the envelope every two weeks.”

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Neal's human, and we can all be a little greedy at times.   When a lot of money is involved many of us will perform some fancy mental gymnastics to convince ourselves we have a right to a cut of it.    

I'd like to think that if I were Neal I'd realize that my windfall isn't big prices on covers I sold long ago, its selling commissions all day long for prices other artists would be overjoyed to get, but maybe it would all get clouded in my head.    A lot of artists don't really understand their market.

 

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2 hours ago, Bronty said:

Neal's human, and we can all be a little greedy at times.   When a lot of money is involved many of us will perform some fancy mental gymnastics to convince ourselves we have a right to a cut of it.    

I'd like to think that if I were Neal I'd realize that my windfall isn't big prices on covers I sold long ago, its selling commissions all day long for prices other artists would be overjoyed to get, but maybe it would all get clouded in my head.    A lot of artists don't really understand their market.

 

 

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That’s true. My thing with Neal is he has a chip on his shoulder. I met him with my brother over 2O years ago. My brother asked how much a commission of Batman would be and Neal said $600.

my brother took a second to digest the asking price and Neal lost it. “Hey, you wanna go online and see what people are selling my stuff for?”

It took us both back. We’ve been advocates for artists. I personally would always prefer buying from an artist or their family directly so they get the best benefit. But Bronty you know the reality of this “thing of ours” ha ha. It doesn’t always work that way.

Not just us but other collectors have mentioned how Neal can come off defensive sometimes. I said as much as you in that Neal’s bread and butter is the commission work. The conventions. At the Con in Hollywood photos $30. 

Hey more power to Neal. I really want him to do well. Neal please remember your fans. We are not your enemy. Neal can be a real sweet guy but I have felt that sting in the way he talks sometimes where he feels ripped off. That “no one gets it.”  Listen to the auction from minute 42-44 its revealing.

No matter what I’m a huge fan but adversarial feelings between fans and artists is bad for everyone.

I am paraphrasing from that video but Neal says he likes to work on today’s projects and stay in the present. Some of these COA moves seem to undercut that sentiment.

I wish him well.

To the consignor I wish you well. I can’t tell you what to do but I know what I would do. 

Come on November get here already.

 

Edited by grapeape

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I think you guys are being pretty hard on the guy.  It’s not like he made a fortune drawing comics for Marvel and DC.  His work is broadly loved and now, almost 50 years later, he’s despised for wanting a small percentage of the hammer when his artwork sells for a thousand times what he was originally paid for it?  It’s not greed.  This isn’t even a new phenomenon.  This issue has come up in other art markets (although as yet, it’s still unresolved).

I try to imagine how it would feel if I spent much of my career making a living drawing artwork for commercial purposes just to see someone make $100,000 selling that artwork many years later that I only got paid $500 for.  I think that would feel pretty lousy.  And I don’t see anything wrong with him asking for a fee when it gets resold.  I hope he gets it.

BTW, you’re talking about the guy that arguably broke his career going to the mat for Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, fighting to get those guys recognition and compensation when they were nearly destitute.  Maybe somebody should go to the mat for Neal now.

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Neal charged me USD800 for this commission last year at Lake Como.  Admittedly, he did it overnight.  This is one of the two pieces in my collection I have not posted on CAF, for totally different reasons.....

NAdams Havok Commission Lake Como 2018.JPG

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