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Ebay purchase: Would you force a return?
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77 posts in this topic

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Captain-America-4-1941-Golden-Age-Stan-Lee-s-Early-Text-Story-Timely-Comics/123872058704

Seller states no returns. I purchased it based on this auction, which showed more photos:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1941-CAPTAIN-AMERICA-4-COVERLESS-BOOK-Stan-Lee-s-Early-Works-For-TIMELY-Rare/123847877964

I asked the seller why the auction says staples are present, when it looks like the top one is missing, and the page looked different in the auction for this book 2 weeks earlier. He tells me it's another, different, copy of the book he has (:eyeroll:), and it's not the book from the previous auction. Aside from the obvious missing first 3 wraps, after purchase, I discover the book is also missing two splash pages, 2 ad pages and the 2-page text story. Centerfold is also missing, but it was also missing in the previous auction, so I was expecting that.

If it were you, would you force a return? (Hat tip: RockMyAmadeus)

 

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Absolutely. Some might say you should reach out to the seller and try to work something out, but in my experience on eBay people who refuse returns are generally not willing to work things out.

If they lie in their description or package like S, I'm going to get eBay involved 100% of the time.

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6 minutes ago, greggy said:

I absolutely agree that the book should be returned. 

Why is the seller using pics of another book to represent his product? That is insane. Why are the missing pages not disclosed in the listing? 

I had lunch today with another board member and this type of thing came up when it comes to eBay and returns.  I showed my listings and I live by what I say on this.  Your ebay listing should be accurate, factual and simple (don't bury defects in walls of text) with multiple pictures of the actual product.  If you goof then even if you don't take returns you take the return. 

However, if the person is engaging in nonsense then don't take back the return.  At lunch I brought up the example of the guy who bought a video game and a week later wanted to return it because he "didn't like it."  He decided to try and force a return.  He lost. 

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38 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I absolutely agree that the book should be returned. 

Why is the seller using pics of another book to represent his product? That is insane. Why are the missing pages not disclosed in the listing? 

I had lunch today with another board member and this type of thing came up when it comes to eBay and returns.  I showed my listings and I live by what I say on this.  Your ebay listing should be accurate, factual and simple (don't bury defects in walls of text) with multiple pictures of the actual product.  If you goof then even if you don't take returns you take the return. 

However, if the person is engaging in nonsense then don't take back the return.  At lunch I brought up the example of the guy who bought a video game and a week later wanted to return it because he "didn't like it."  He decided to try and force a return.  He lost. 

better question is how did he have 2 coverless Cap #4's with almost the same quantity of missing pages??

Edited by kav
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Also, an eBay seller can say they don’t accept returns all they want. They can also tell you they prefer cake to pie.  Neither statement has any impact as to whether or not eBay will allow you to return something that is defective or was misrepresented by photos.  

FYI... the latter statement, however, does make you a gosh darn liar. No one in their right mind prefers cake to pie. 

 

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I did force a return on the book and was successful. To be honest, I felt a little guilty, because the seller did say 'no returns' and I agreed to it. Ultimately, I returned the book because he listed the text story in both the description and auction when he knew those specific pages weren't there. I made that point to ebay, telling them it was the main reason I bought the book, and I suspect that's why they sided with me. I was also angry because the book had all those missing pages 2 weeks earlier. I knew when I received the book it was the same one as the previous sale, because there were several unique markings and paper defects that were present in both books.

His counter argument to ebay was that the text pages were present when he mailed me the book, and since one of the pages was detached (because he ripped out the other half of the wrap), I damaged it. And of course, during the week-long period where the seller and I were supposed to work it out between us, he sold the two page text story and one of the missing splashes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAPTAIN-AMERICA-1941-4-BY-TIMELY-COMICS-2-PAGES-STAN-LEE-EARLY-TEXT-STORY/123888821367

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAPTAIN-AMERICA-4-1941-JACK-KIRBY-JOE-SIMON-COMIC-PAGE-IVAN-THE-TERRIBLE/123889141307

It's astonishing how stupid/brazen the seller was. I shipped the book back to him with ebay's label (which required a signature), so he figured he'd avoid having to give me a refund by not accepting the book. It sat at the PO for two days before I called ebay and explained the situation; I got a refund within 15 minutes. The seller posted this auction because he was having problems filing an appeal.

Look upon this work of greatness:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-CASE-SR-1-226165095697-CAPTAIN-AMERICA-1941-4-DAMAGED-AND-CLEANED-OUT-BY-B-/123898700756

Anyway, it was all moderately amusing dealing with a complete lunatic. And the seller has relisted the book today-- now missing even MORE pages. He seems to be dropping the price every hour, he started it at $200, currently at $120.

 

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11 minutes ago, stock_rotation said:

I did force a return on the book and was successful. To be honest, I felt a little guilty, because the seller did say 'no returns' and I agreed to it. Ultimately, I returned the book because he listed the text story in both the description and auction when he knew those specific pages weren't there. I made that point to ebay, telling them it was the main reason I bought the book, and I suspect that's why they sided with me. I was also angry because the book had all those missing pages 2 weeks earlier. I knew when I received the book it was the same one as the previous sale, because there were several unique markings and paper defects that were present in both books.

His counter argument to ebay was that the text pages were present when he mailed me the book, and since one of the pages was detached (because he ripped out the other half of the wrap), I damaged it. And of course, during the week-long period where the seller and I were supposed to work it out between us, he sold the two page text story and one of the missing splashes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAPTAIN-AMERICA-1941-4-BY-TIMELY-COMICS-2-PAGES-STAN-LEE-EARLY-TEXT-STORY/123888821367

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAPTAIN-AMERICA-4-1941-JACK-KIRBY-JOE-SIMON-COMIC-PAGE-IVAN-THE-TERRIBLE/123889141307

It's astonishing how stupid/brazen the seller was. I shipped the book back to him with ebay's label (which required a signature), so he figured he'd avoid having to give me a refund by not accepting the book. It sat at the PO for two days before I called ebay and explained the situation; I got a refund within 15 minutes. The seller posted this auction because he was having problems filing an appeal.

Look upon this work of greatness:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-CASE-SR-1-226165095697-CAPTAIN-AMERICA-1941-4-DAMAGED-AND-CLEANED-OUT-BY-B-/123898700756

Anyway, it was all moderately amusing dealing with a complete lunatic. And the seller has relisted the book today-- now missing even MORE pages. He seems to be dropping the price every hour, he started it at $200, currently at $120.

 

One boardie told me the story of an AF15 he bought that was trimmed.  Ebay forced the return so seller thought he would checkmate buyer by refusing delivery and ignoring communications.  AF15 was returned to buyer, and he got the refund.  Ebay told him to keep the book.  Seller went ballistic after that and suddenly was VERY communicative. lol

 

Edited by kav
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19 minutes ago, kav said:

One boardie told me the story of an AF15 he bought that was trimmed.  Ebay forced the return so seller thought he would checkmate buyer by refusing delivery and ignoring communications.  AF15 was returned to buyer, and he got the refund.  Ebay told him to keep the book.  Seller went ballistic after that and suddenly was VERY communicative. lol

 

Yeah, Ebay essentially told me the same thing. I asked what would happen if the book was returned to me if the seller didn't pick it up within the POs timeframe, and they told me I should make a good-faith effort to return it to the seller, but I was under no obligation to pay for the return, and I would need to work out reimbursement for the return postage with him.

In my case, the seller picked up the book the next morning after I was auto-refunded.

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25 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

The seller can state all day long he doesn't take returns. It means zero. They just
hope some buyer thinks they cant return the book.

Now as a seller I don't like this policy, but its in place for problems like this. 
 

Friend of mine recently told me that last year he refused a return on a CGC book because the buyer said he disagreed with the CGC grade... so... (shrug)  I had a similar situation years ago and also refused the return.  

If you are in the right, just call eBay and see what they say.  For a problem like this the yeah, of course eBay is going to find in favor of the buyer.  However, if you do not offer returns, eBay will look into it and make a judgement call.  It's worth that call. 

When you offer returns it is almost as if you are opening yourself to take anything back for any reason.  If you do not offer returns then eBay is willing to look into matters a little more closely.  They will always side with the seller on anything that looks like buyer's remorse. 

 

Edited by Buzzetta
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3 hours ago, telerites said:

I don't think I would like it even with the lube 

But if you're willing to learn to like it, then not returning that grossly, irresponsibly misrepresented book, missing this, that, and the other (what was in the comic bag? An ad page?) would be the ideal way to get a leg up, so to speak.

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13 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

But if you're willing to learn to like it, then not returning that grossly, irresponsibly misrepresented book, missing this, that, and the other (what was in the comic bag? An ad page?) would be the ideal way to get a leg up, so to speak.

The circle is complete... which brings us back to... 

 

Edited by Buzzetta
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51 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:
1 hour ago, fastballspecial said:

The seller can state all day long he doesn't take returns. It means zero. They just
hope some buyer thinks they cant return the book.

Now as a seller I don't like this policy, but its in place for problems like this. 
 

Friend of mine recently told me that last year he refused a return on a CGC book because the buyer said he disagreed with the CGC grade... so... (shrug)  I had a similar situation years ago and also refused the return.  

If you are in the right, just call eBay and see what they say.  For a problem like this the yeah, of course eBay is going to find in favor of the buyer.  However, if you do not offer returns, eBay will look into it and make a judgement call.  It's worth that call. 

When you offer returns it is almost as if you are opening yourself to take anything back for any reason.  If you do not offer returns then eBay is willing to look into matters a little more closely.  They will always side with the seller on anything that looks like buyer's remorse

I think we have had this conversation before. I don't like it anymore then you do, but I can guarantee you lose sales if you don't. 

Several years ago I fought a chargeback from a buyer that happened like months after the transaction. I won, but they guy filed it twice.
Honestly I think his wife found out and filed it, but either way it was a win. That being said a no returns policy leads the buyer to believe
something just isn't right. Its like private feedback same sort of issue. 

Its no different then having a sales thread on the boards here. If you don't offer returns here you will forfeit sales every time.
PM me sometime and I can tell you some great stories on that as well.

Its a double edge sword that I hate as much as you do, but its just the way things are now. Honestly I think not agreeing to returns
puts a bigger target on your back on ebay.

 

 

Edited by fastballspecial
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1 minute ago, fastballspecial said:

I think we have had this conversation before. I don't like it anymore then you do, but I can guarantee you lose sales if you don't. 

Several years ago I fought a chargeback from a buyer that happened like months after the transaction. I won, but they guy filed it twice.
Honestly I think his wife found out and filed it, but either way it was an easy win. 

Its no different then having a sales thread on the boards here. If you don't offer returns here you will forfeit sales every time.
PM me sometime and I can tell you some great stories on that as well.

Its a double edge sword that I hate as much as you do, but its just the way things are now. Honestly I think not agreeing to returns
puts a bigger target on your back on ebay.

 

 

I don't believe that not offering returns on CGC books deter sales.

This is NOT a dig on you but on the general mentality of our hobby.

Let's stop and think about all of the unscrupulous buyers and sellers that we have witnessed on these CGC boards as well as in the hobby.  Some of their behaviors are well knowns and their scams widely spoken about... and still people continue doing business with them.  Why?  Because as Logan has trademarked... 'Cool Books" 

I don't believe that a no returns policy is a deal breaker. 

I love a good story though and have a few I do not want made public.... so... PM forthcoming. 

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5 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I don't believe that not offering returns on CGC books deter sales.

This is NOT a dig on you but on the general mentality of our hobby.

Let's stop and think about all of the unscrupulous buyers and sellers that we have witnessed on these CGC boards as well as in the hobby.  Some of their behaviors are well knowns and their scams widely spoken about... and still people continue doing business with them.  Why?  Because as Logan has trademarked... 'Cool Books" 

I don't believe that a no returns policy is a deal breaker. 

I love a good story though and have a few I do not want made public.... so... PM forthcoming. 

I never buy from no returns sellers.  

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18 minutes ago, kav said:

I never buy from no returns sellers.  

Considering your offer to be my personal alarm clock I am okay without you knowing any of my mailing addresses lol 

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