Most Important / Impactful Living Artist 1 1

[grapeape]

On 9/16/2019 at 10:03 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

Did anyone watch the Rude Dude documentary (also on Amazon) about Steve Rude? 

Yes. It was brilliant and sad. Steve Brilliant and Steve and his family up and down sad. The man is a wonderful artist but he has demons as a human. So do we all I guess. A must watch for OA fans. It also features a page I own (HULK SUPERMAN) though they show the comic page not my art page.

Edited September 20, 2019 by grapeape

[zhamlau]

13 hours ago, vodou said:

On 9/18/2019 at 3:01 PM, The Cimmerians Purse said:

because EVERYONE wants a Hobbit cottage!

 

14 hours ago, zhamlau said:

...You know....yeah...I sorta do too...

I have one. The real thing is much nicer than the painting - even though they're priced nearly the same

Actually I do as well. Im usually not one to share much actually personal stuff but why not. This is mine, only 400 square feet on an island off a cliff in the forest. No plumbing or power but honestly you dont need it. This place is also why I love comic books and eventually art.

 

 

[grapeape]

2 hours ago, zhamlau said:

Actually I do as well. Im usually not one to share much actually personal stuff but why not. This is mine, only 400 square feet on an island off a cliff in the forest. No plumbing or power but honestly you dont need it. This place is also why I love comic books and eventually art.

 

 

a slice of solitude.....a place to hang out until next Sunday night when you turn on ESPN and find out the Mets jumped over CUBS  and BREWERS and made the playoffs. Polar Bear finishes with at least 53 dingers.....#LFGM

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/18/2019 at 3:22 PM, The Cimmerians Purse said:

My answer to the question is the Image Comics founders. The comic book industry wouldn't be what it is today without them. They moved comic books into the realm of style over substance, which almost destroyed the industry. Today's comic industry (for the most part) focuses on making good stories, and just letting the rest happen organically. i.e. collectable markets, OA, etc. That mentality is a direct reaction to the near implosion of the market. And that implosion, I believe, was causally linked to the Image founders.

Wait, what? The comic publishers are super exploitative of the collectors market with all the variant covers. 

[Prince Namor]

On 9/18/2019 at 3:22 PM, The Cimmerians Purse said:

My answer to the question is the Image Comics founders. The comic book industry wouldn't be what it is today without them.

Smaller print runs than ever before?

On 9/18/2019 at 3:22 PM, The Cimmerians Purse said:

They moved comic books into the realm of style over substance, which almost destroyed the industry.

Mmmm... I would word this differently. Maybe... moved comic books into the realm of 'individual glorification of the creator' over substance, which didn't lead to anything beneficial for the market as a whole.

Mainstream comics have ALWAYS been about style over substance. That's why the COVERS are such a focus. We just... at times perceive the idea that there's a higher quality of storytelling than what there actually is.

On 9/18/2019 at 3:22 PM, The Cimmerians Purse said:

Today's comic industry (for the most part) focuses on making good stories,

On 9/18/2019 at 3:22 PM, The Cimmerians Purse said:

and just letting the rest happen organically. i.e. collectable markets, OA, etc.

On 9/18/2019 at 3:22 PM, The Cimmerians Purse said:

That mentality is a direct reaction to the near implosion of the market. And that implosion, I believe, was causally linked to the Image founders.

I appreciate the discussion start on this because it's an interesting topic... and not to NOT throw some shade at the colossal blunders those Image kids made at the start of their personal branding, but Marvel Comics... more than anyone... deserves the lion share of the blame for almost destroying the comics market.

And I get that Image now, is very story focused, creator focused and is making some enjoyable stories - as are some other smaller publisher's.Thank goodness for that and I hope for their continued success. But Marvel and DC are still the majority of the market. And their stories are the same regurgitated hack jobs they've been retelling since Kirby and Ditko left.

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

 But Marvel and DC are still the majority of the market. And their stories are the same regurgitated hack jobs they've been retelling since Kirby and Ditko left.

I admittedly don’t read that many anymore, but in my opinion, there are better stories than way back in the 1960’s if you look around. Unfortunately, they get stretched out with too many secondary plot threads, and a focus on art (specifically, too many splashes  and semi-splashes) to the detriment of the story lines. And yes, there are also a lot of retreads. I am sick of threats to the multi-verse.

[Prince Namor]

2 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I admittedly don’t read that many anymore, but in my opinion, there are better stories than way back in the 1960’s if you look around.

Everything that's (supposedly) good now in mainstream comics was stolen from a concept in the 60's-70's-80's.

Unmasked! Death of! Reboot! It's all Connected (long lost uncle-Brother-Clone), Superhero no more!, Villains as Good guys!

Civil war? Been there, done that.

Secret war? Been there, done that.

Whatever Marvel/DC story anyone thinks is good... chances are it's been done in some form before.

2 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

Unfortunately, they get stretched out with too many secondary plot threads, and a focus on art (specifically, too many splashes  and semi-splashes) to the detriment of the story lines. And yes, there are also a lot of retreads. I am sick of threats to the multi-verse.

They're all six issue mini-series to fit inside a TPB

[vodou]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

Whatever Marvel/DC story anyone thinks is good... chances are it's been done in some form before.

Except for Brubaker's various Big Two Omnibii, I haven't read a single Marvel (or DC) all the way through since...1998.

And that was really about Bru not Marvel. And they paled up against his creator-owned material anyway.

[Rick2you2]

8 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Everything that's (supposedly) good now in mainstream comics was stolen from a concept in the 60's-70's-80's.

Unmasked! Death of! Reboot! It's all Connected (long lost uncle-Brother-Clone), Superhero no more!, Villains as Good guys!

Civil war? Been there, done that.

Secret war? Been there, done that.

Whatever Marvel/DC story anyone thinks is good... chances are it's been done in some form before.

They're all six issue mini-series to fit inside a TPB

In one sense, everything is a stolen concept. What was that old line: you can reduce all stories to just [pick number] plots. But with that said, there is generally more characterization, and some newer twists. What you have said, however, is one reason why I don’t read many books anymore. 

 

[exitmusicblue]

Our GA brethren have a blast with this stuff over there in the Golden Age section.

[Pete Marino]

I stopped buying floppies around 2013 or so, but if you cherry pick there's been some damn good marvel stuff in modern times.

Uncanny X-Force 1-18 was amazing, was it a bit of an homage to dark Phoenix sage, sure, but it wore it's influences on it's shoulder and made itself into it's own great thing.

Journey into mystery by Kerion Gillen, the kid Loki story was something special, from beginning to end a great "journey" and a lot of fun.

A lot of Peter David's X-Factor is a fun read.

Wolverine and the X-Men was a fun read as well, where wolverine takes over the school.

That's all I got off the top of my head though, I'm sure I'm missing a few that I thought were great and I enjoyed a bunch that were not great.  90% of what I read and have read in modern comics has been Indy stuff.

What kills me on modern comics is the price, I walk out spending $50 for a very small time investment in reading way too often.

[Prince Namor]

8 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

I stopped buying floppies around 2013 or so, but if you cherry pick there's been some damn good marvel stuff in modern times.

Uncanny X-Force 1-18 was amazing, was it a bit of an homage to dark Phoenix sage, sure, but it wore it's influences on it's shoulder and made itself into it's own great thing.

"Dark' saga. Characters die, come back to life. Characters killed in alternate timelines. All been done before.

8 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

Journey into mystery by Kerion Gillen, the kid Loki story was something special, from beginning to end a great "journey" and a lot of fun.

Flashback story. 'Character as a kid' story. Been done.

8 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

A lot of Peter David's X-Factor is a fun read.

New members to infuse life into the book, quirky humor to appeal to the 'jaded' reader, all been done. 

8 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

Wolverine and the X-Men was a fun read as well, where wolverine takes over the school.

Members take over in Prof. X's absence. Been done ad nauseam. 

8 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

That's all I got off the top of my head though, I'm sure I'm missing a few that I thought were great and I enjoyed a bunch that were not great.  90% of what I read and have read in modern comics has been Indy stuff.

What kills me on modern comics is the price, I walk out spending $50 for a very small time investment in reading way too often.

It's not that any of these stories are BAD. They're actually well written. It's just nothing that hasn't been done over and over and over again.

[vodou]

5 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

It's not that any of these stories are BAD. They're actually well written. It's just nothing that hasn't been done over and over and over again.

Old stories for new readers. Sounds great.

But are there any new readers? I wonder.

I've been at it since Summer 1981. So I'm certainly not new.

[Rick2you2]

On 9/21/2019 at 9:35 AM, Chuck Gower said:

"Dark' saga. Characters die, come back to life. Characters killed in alternate timelines. All been done before.

Flashback story. 'Character as a kid' story. Been done.

New members to infuse life into the book, quirky humor to appeal to the 'jaded' reader, all been done. 

Members take over in Prof. X's absence. Been done ad nauseam. 

It's not that any of these stories are BAD. They're actually well written. It's just nothing that hasn't been done over and over and over again.

Well, you could also reduce all romantic comedies to: boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl. The fun is in the journey, not the destination.

But yes, some of the stories I have read really are tired, unimaginative retreads of the past.  

[The Cimmerians Purse]

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 2:03 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

Wait, what? The comic publishers are super exploitative of the collectors market with all the variant covers. 

pffft that sounds like some kind of alternate reality BS!

[The Cimmerians Purse]

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 6:03 AM, Chuck Gower said:

Smaller print runs than ever before?

Mmmm... I would word this differently. Maybe... moved comic books into the realm of 'individual glorification of the creator' over substance, which didn't lead to anything beneficial for the market as a whole.

Mainstream comics have ALWAYS been about style over substance. That's why the COVERS are such a focus. We just... at times perceive the idea that there's a higher quality of storytelling than what there actually is.

I appreciate the discussion start on this because it's an interesting topic... and not to NOT throw some shade at the colossal blunders those Image kids made at the start of their personal branding, but Marvel Comics... more than anyone... deserves the lion share of the blame for almost destroying the comics market.

And I get that Image now, is very story focused, creator focused and is making some enjoyable stories - as are some other smaller publisher's.Thank goodness for that and I hope for their continued success. But Marvel and DC are still the majority of the market. And their stories are the same regurgitated hack jobs they've been retelling since Kirby and Ditko left.

by style over substance I meant specifically that they spent so much on cheesecake artists that there wasn't any money left over for decent writers. So it was all about the look of the book instead of the story, and a lot of *at least what I read during the time* was flashy art and writing. And there was so much of it, that it was hard to find any of the diamonds in the rough at the time.

anyway thought the clarification of intent would be appreciated.

 

I also think Marvel should take a significant share of what happened. Because I think they started it. They also gave all of the Image kids their shots. I think if Marvel started it, Image brought it too new realms. I may be biased though, because I wasn't reading Marvel comics at the time. I didn't grow an appreciation for Marvel books until later in life when trades of earlier stuff became available.

Edited September 23, 2019 by The Cimmerians Purse
adding

[The Cimmerians Purse]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 9:42 AM, vodou said:

Old stories for new readers. Sounds great.

But are there any new readers? I wonder.

I've been at it since Summer 1981. So I'm certainly not new.

yeah there are new readers. I know a kid in his sophomore year of high school who could stand toe to toe with any one on this board with comic book lore.... nerdiness is nerdiness. He's 14 years old and to him Jack Kirby is a god. I think we all forget that most kids didn't read comics when we were young either. And so I think the argument that most kids know the movies and not the books doesn't matter. The kids who are truly nerdy over the characters will seek out the books regardless of where they were introduced to the idea of super heroes.

[vodou]

20 minutes ago, The Cimmerians Purse said:

I know a kid in his sophomore year of high school who could stand toe to toe with any one on this board with comic book lore.... nerdiness is nerdiness. He's 14 years old and to him Jack Kirby is a god.

That's a new reader that's going to become jaded (old) very quickly then imo. You can't get to that level of perspective without seeing things for what they are. And more importantly: what they are not.

 

23 minutes ago, The Cimmerians Purse said:

The kids who are truly nerdy over the characters will seek out the books regardless of where they were introduced to the idea of super heroes.

Shame. Nerdy over the characters...not innovative storytelling and art being done unique to the sequential medium. Same old, same old.

[The Cimmerians Purse]

7 minutes ago, vodou said:

That's a new reader that's going to become jaded (old) very quickly then imo. You can't get to that level of perspective without seeing things for what they are. And more importantly: what they are not.

 

Shame. Nerdy over the characters...not innovative storytelling and art being done unique to the sequential medium. Same old, same old.

While I agree that the innovative story telling isn't happening at big 2, at least not for the most part... I disagree that it's not happening. It's just not happening there at the moment. And because I believe a statement like that requires giving examples: Jeff Lemire has been doing it for years, and Daniel Warren Johnson as a very bright rising star.

Marvel's problem right now, IMO, is that they get something cool going like the new X-men books (House of X, and Powers of X) and then surround them with 10 superfluous / mediocre series to sell issues on the merits of the good thing. And so, the good thing's merit gets watered down by the cookie-cutter . It's the great money grab all over again. And if it keeps getting worse it will put marvel in jeopardy.

[vodou]

1 hour ago, The Cimmerians Purse said:

And because I believe a statement like that requires giving examples: Jeff Lemire has been doing it for years, and Daniel Warren Johnson as a very bright rising star.

Yes. And I would give them, among others, as my examples too. Plenty of good stuff happening, past and present, in the non-Big Two space. And that's just US, so much more non-US too. My gripe as very specifically with the characters which unfortunately points more to brand loyalty than art appreciation (words and/or pictures).