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Shilling
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Started by Hollywood1892,

213 posts in this topic

Hollywood1892

Hollywood1892

Posted
Posted

I need some help when it comes to the definition of "shilling". I understand its reference to bidding.

But if I am buying a product and I make an offer, and my friend makes an offer that is less than my offer, is that shilling.

In my defense the seller always has the option of declining both offers, whereas when it comes to pushing a bid higher, they have reached a point of no return.

 

Thanks

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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Posted
6 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

I’m a little confused. Are you talking about an auction or a buy it now with best offer option? You use the terms bid and offer. Assuming it’s a best offer you’re writing about ...  Apparently you have a friend make a lower offer than yours to make yours look better?  Not shilling.  

The dictionary disagrees with you, sir:

"an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others."

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1950's war comics

1950's war comics

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I need some help when it comes to the definition of "shilling". I understand its reference to bidding.

But if I am buying a product and I make an offer, and my friend makes an offer that is less than my offer, is that shilling.

In my defense the seller always has the option of declining both offers, whereas when it comes to pushing a bid higher, they have reached a point of no return.

 

Thanks

one way to shill that is happening a lot lately...

someone is selling a comic , the sellers friend puts a crazy high bid on it, (shill/fake bid)

then if someone else wants to buy it they have to outbid  high (fake) bid..

and if nobody outbids the fake bid then his friend never pays for it, and it is not offered to the 2nd place bidder (which could have been 50% less)

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1950's war comics

1950's war comics

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I need some help when it comes to the definition of "shilling". I understand its reference to bidding.

But if I am buying a product and I make an offer, and my friend makes an offer that is less than my offer, is that shilling.

In my defense the seller always has the option of declining both offers, whereas when it comes to pushing a bid higher, they have reached a point of no return.

 

Thanks

shilling is really becoming a problem because eBay does not care to stop it and even some of the major auction houses have been busted doing it

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

Truthfully reading the definition you provided I believe it applies when the accomplice is working on behalf of the seller not another buyer. 

Shilling goes both ways. For both raising and lowering prices. It's ambiguous.

Look at it from the perspective of a seller. Do you think it's ethical for an uninterested party to send you low-ball offers to influence your prices?

Edit: Also think about it based on intent and not outcome.

Edited by theCapraAegagrus
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Krismusic

Krismusic

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32 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Shilling goes both ways. For both raising and lowering prices. It's ambiguous.

Look at it from the perspective of a seller. Do you think it's ethical for an uninterested party to send you low-ball offers to influence your prices?

Edit: Also think about it based on intent and not outcome.

but in these times do you think low ball offers really affect a sellers price to sell said item? I mean with GPA, ebay sold prices and people be more aware of seeing what the products or comic sells for be less influenced by low ball offers. I mean I see on ads on Facebook, letgo, kijjij, etc saying low ball offers wouldn't even be responded to. 

I mean I know if could influence it sometimes depending on the type of product such as one that would have a expiry date, such as event/concert tickets. But in reference to comics I dont think this type of shill has any effect and if it does its probably a very small amount.

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Krismusic

Krismusic

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53 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

one way to shill that is happening a lot lately...

someone is selling a comic , the sellers friend puts a crazy high bid on it, (shill/fake bid)

then if someone else wants to buy it they have to outbid  high (fake) bid..

and if nobody outbids the fake bid then his friend never pays for it, and it is not offered to the 2nd place bidder (which could have been 50% less)

I think I have seen this, but no hard proof, so I just stay away from that seller. 

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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13 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

but in these times do you think low ball offers really affect a sellers price to sell said item? I mean with GPA, ebay sold prices and people be more aware of seeing what the products or comic sells for be less influenced by low ball offers. I mean I see on ads on Facebook, letgo, kijjij, etc saying low ball offers wouldn't even be responded to. 

I mean I know if could influence it sometimes depending on the type of product such as one that would have a expiry date, such as event/concert tickets. But in reference to comics I dont think this type of shill has any effect and if it does its probably a very small amount.

Intent vs outcome.

It's the same argument as "equality of opportunity vs equal outcome".

He's intentionally shilling. Whether it works or not is another argument. Do you disagree on the ethics of the situation?

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Krismusic

Krismusic

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Intent vs outcome.

It's the same argument as "equality of opportunity vs equal outcome".

He's intentionally shilling. Whether it works or not is another argument. Do you disagree on the ethics of the situation?

no I think its unethical, its colluding, yes how successful it is might be a separate issue but the act of colluding is still the same unethical action. 

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Krismusic

Krismusic

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I need some help when it comes to the definition of "shilling". I understand its reference to bidding.

But if I am buying a product and I make an offer, and my friend makes an offer that is less than my offer, is that shilling.

In my defense the seller always has the option of declining both offers, whereas when it comes to pushing a bid higher, they have reached a point of no return.

 

Thanks

the key question here is did you tell your friend to make a lower offer as in did you guys collude? 

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Hollywood1892

Hollywood1892

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

I have a simple solution for you OP

why not raise that question on the eBay forum. 

Use the words you describe here exactly:

youre calling your friends and instructing them to lowball a sellers item on eBay 

ask them if it’s ethical or not

Send me the link

At the end of the day it's the sellers choice to sell or not

I didn't really care if I got the product, my offer was a lowball, his offer was even lower

I offered $1100 on something he was selling for $1300.

Edited by Hollywood1892
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Hollywood1892

Hollywood1892

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Posted
1 minute ago, Krishosein said:

the key question here is did you tell your friend to make a lower offer as in did you guys collude? 

%100 I told my friend about what I wanted I said I offered him $1100 why don't you offer him $1000. The seller didnt respond to my friend, the seller responded to me. The seller could have said he wasnt interested, but he said I'll accept your offer, submit it and I'll sell it to you.

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D84

D84

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  • Popular Post
Posted
1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I need some help when it comes to the definition of "shilling". I understand its reference to bidding.

But if I am buying a product and I make an offer, and my friend makes an offer that is less than my offer, is that shilling.

In my defense the seller always has the option of declining both offers, whereas when it comes to pushing a bid higher, they have reached a point of no return.

 

Thanks

What's both your eBay handles, so I can block you both?

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