Shilling 0

[wombat]

1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

 

At the end of the day it's the sellers choice to sell or not

 

The problem with this statement is you can say the same thing for buyers. A seller has someone bid up his item and then someone else buys it. More of the classic shill bidding we think of. Well, the final buyer didn't have to buy it. It was his choice. 

[Hollywood1892]

Just now, vheflin said:

Seems to be an ineffective strategy because you must always be the high offer.  Why not flip it - have the friend place the higher offer then cancel/return and have a frustrated seller turn to you and your significantly lower offer.

[Hollywood1892]

2 minutes ago, wombat said:

The problem with this statement is you can say the same thing for buyers. A seller has someone bid up his item and then someone else buys it. More of the classic shill bidding we think of. Well, the final buyer didn't have to buy it. It was his choice. 

I agree

But the seller is selling product for $1300

I offer $1100

Someone else offers $1000

Seller can still say "I'll just leave it for $1300"

I pushed the sale in a sense by involving my friend.

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hollywood1892

[wombat]

1 minute ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I agree

But the seller is selling product for $1300

I offer $1100

Someone else offers $1000

Seller can still say "I'll just leave it for $1300"

So you are fine with sellers shilling their auctions?

[Krismusic]

think I will from this thread for now I think I've said all I can for now...  

[Jaylam]

I think I was a victim of what I'd call reverse shilling by some buyers. At the end of one of  my auctions, somehow a bidder was able to retract their bid resulting in a the higher bid winning. The winner accused me of shilling and believed I should sell them the book for their lower prior bid or cancel the transaction all together. I'm not sure how a bidder was able to retract their bid within minutes of the auction ending? I didn't think that was allowed by ebay. I contacted ebay to let them know what happened and what I was accused of. I never really understood their explanation of how bids can be retracted, especially when it made it look like I was involved in doing something shady, but really I think the buyers where involved in a scam to bid up high so they would be sure to win, then one of them withdraws their bid or bids, and then demand I sell for one of their lower bid prices, while at the same time pointing the finger at me as the one doing something wrong, when in reality it is them doing a bait and switch with the bidding. Any thoughts on this.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Jaylam

[Hollywood1892]

1 minute ago, Jaylam said:

I think I was a victim of what I'd call reverse shilling by some buyers. At the end of one of  my auctions, somehow a bidder was able to retract their bid resulting in a the higher bid winning. The winner accused me of shilling and believed I should sell them the book for their lower prior bid or cancel the transaction all together. I'm not sure how a bidder was able to retract their bid within minutes of the auction ending? I didn't think that was allowed by ebay. I contacted ebay to let them know what happened and what I was accused of. I never really understood their explanation of how bids can be retracted, especially when it made it look like I was involved in doing something shady, but really I think the buyers where involved in a scam to bid up high so they would be sure to win, then one of them withdraws their bid or bids, and then demand I sell for one of their lower bid prices, while at the same time pointing the finger at me as the one doing something wrong, when in reality it is them doing a bait and switch with the bidding. Any thoughts on this.

Total scam

[THE_BEYONDER]

17 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Sure

Shenanigans...

I conduct most of my buying on my own, and I find people on Ebay over price their items.

I like to barter, I never want to pay the price they are asking.

Having your buddy Post a fake best offer goes beyond bartering

[Hollywood1892]

8 minutes ago, wombat said:

So you are fine with sellers shilling their auctions?

I'm not a seller, and I try not to have an opinion on things that don't directly involve me.

[ADAMANTIUM]

14 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

technical sense if your doing it for your own item its not shilling. when you involve another party intentionally then I would say its shilling. I think the key people are missing is the collusion that occurs from shilling. the collusion or act of collusion is the unethical part in most circumstances. 

Damn I feel like a lawyer... trying to define a grey area to argue for a jury of my peers.  

Ya I've never done it to others or my own....

But when an item doesn't sell quickly, I'll start checking the "views" to see if anyone is even looking at my listing...

[ThothAmon]

Shilling can only be done by a seller or “hawker” as the definition puts it (working with a purported buyer). Whatever this is, it isn’t shilling. 

[Hollywood1892]

Just now, THE_BEYONDER said:

Having your buddy Post a fake best offer goes beyond bartering

They didn't post a fake best offer

Before I ever submit an offer I always open up dialogue with the seller. My friend contacted the seller and asked what type of prices they would sell it at.

I contacted the seller via message and said I'll offer you this amount are you interested?

They responded that night and said "yeah, submit the offer"

[wombat]

1 minute ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I'm not a seller, and I try not to have an opinion on things that don't directly involve me.

So as a buyer a seller shilling their auctions doesn't involve you?  And of course this is a total cop out on your part.  

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, Hollywood1892 said:

They didn't post a fake best offer

Before I ever submit an offer I always open up dialogue with the seller. My friend contacted the seller and asked what type of prices they would sell it at.

I contacted the seller via message and said I'll offer you this amount are you interested?

They responded that night and said "yeah, submit the offer"

With grey area's it's best to stay out of it all together... I would think...

But you cared enough to pose the question, if you did it unknowingly then when confronted you then knew and cared. It is what you do going forward that matter's. I don't feel the need to block anyone in this thread, I'm relatively new to ebay and especially the selling part. We can only do what we can!

Wisdom comes from the advice of many counselors! 

[mosconi]

2 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

shilling is really becoming a problem because eBay does not care to stop it and even some of the major auction houses have been busted doing it

I'm very interested to hear which auction houses have been caught shilling their books?  Any links that can provide more info?  I have my suspicions on one auction house in particular

[Hollywood1892]

8 minutes ago, wombat said:

So as a buyer a seller shilling their auctions doesn't involve you?  And of course this is a total cop out on your part.  

Alright you have enticed me

When a seller shills their product they are forcing it to be sold at a higher price than said market value

When a buyer tries to entice a seller to selling his product at a lower place weither closer to fair market value or beneath it and involves a friend to make it seem more appealing to the seller and owner the onus rests on the owner. The seller in the first instance is forcing a buyer to pay higher than he would if the seller hadn't shilled his product. Those in my opinion are two different circumstances,

But maybe the problem rests with Ebays opening prices on auctions, maybe the seller should be allowed to set the price he actually wants for the product and allow bidders to bid from that jump off point.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hollywood1892

[Hollywood1892]

6 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

With grey area's it's best to stay out of it all together... I would think...

But you cared enough to pose the question, if you did it unknowingly then when confronted you then knew and cared. It is what you do going forward that matter's. I don't feel the need to block anyone in this thread, I'm relatively new to ebay and especially the selling part. We can only do what we can!

Wisdom comes from the advice of many counselors! 

Exactly

I'm prepared to listen, or I wouldn't have posed the question

[wombat]

6 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Alright you have enticed me

When a seller shills their product they are forcing it to be sold at a higher price than said market value

When a buyer tries to entice a seller to selling his product at a lower place weither closer to fair market value or beneath it and involves a friend to make it seem more appealing to the seller and owner the onus rests on the owner. The seller in the first instance is forcing a buyer to pay higher than he would if the seller hadn't shilled his product. Those in my opinion are two different circumstances,

But maybe the problem rests with Ebays opening prices on auctions, maybe the seller should be allowed to set the price he actually wants for the product and allow bidders to bid from that jump off point.

How is a seller "forcing" anyone to buy his product? No one has to bid on an auction. And of course the auction can also be way below market value and have shilling. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by wombat

[ThothAmon]

2 minutes ago, mosconi said:

I'm very interested to hear which auction houses have been caught shilling their books?  Any links that can provide more info?  I have my suspicions on one auction house in particular

Me too, but I am familiar with a well known comic art dealer admitting he'd been doing it for years.  A thread somewhere on it a couple years back.

3 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

maybe the seller should be allowed to set the price he actually wants for the product and allow bidders to bid from that jump off point.

Uhhh.  I think they can now.

[wombat]

5 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

 

But maybe the problem rests with Ebays opening prices on auctions, maybe the seller should be allowed to set the price he actually wants for the product and allow bidders to bid from that jump off point.

You know this is actually a thing, right?