Warning: More Corrupt, Fraudulent, and Criminal Behavior by eBay 1 1

[MGsimba77]

36 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The buyer gave ZERO benefit of the doubt. Didn't contact me directly, just went straight to eBay. Refused to WORK WITH ME, just said "nope, nope, NOPE!!" Wouldn't listen to me, when he could see the address I asked him to send it back to was IDENTICAL TO THE RETURN ADDRESS ON THE ORIGINAL PACKAGE. It wasn't a "different" address...it was the CORRECT address.

In this case with their being a different return address on the original box than on the return label I would have contacted the seller first then Ebay just to do everything possible to get everyone on same page before sending the package back. If after doing so Ebay still tells him to return to a certain address that's a different matter.

In this case it looks like the buyer didn't do everything possible to try and clarify some conflicting return address information before acting. I know he's not required to but its just common courtesy you know 

Edited September 24, 2019 by MGsimba77

[Cat]

I'm strictly referring to the 'original packing materials' part. Ignore the photos. I'm saying that it's possible (though unlikely) he could've interpreted the 'IMPORTANT' sentence to mean just the actual internal packing materials, ie the peanuts and bubblewrap, but not the box itself. That's what I meant. 

Either way, really minor point, and not worth arguing about. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, masterlogan2000 said:

Again, putting yourself in the buyer's shoes... why should he give you a benefit of the doubt?  Does he owe you something?  Does he know you personally?  What guarantee is he provided by giving up his guarantee to a refund through eBay?

Because:

1. I have 100% positive feedback in the several thousands.

2. I have 5 star DSRs across the board.

3. I have a 30 day return policy.

4. I responded to his case immediately.

5. I gave no inkling of pushback.

6. He knew the item was insured, so no one was potentially losing any money except the USPS which damaged it.

7. You do not "give up your guarantee" when you pay with a credit card through Paypal. 

8. As this very experience shows, as long as it shows "delivered", he wouldn't have given up his guarantee no matter where it ended up.

5 minutes ago, masterlogan2000 said:

According to eBay, the PO Box you asked him to write in was a different address.  According to eBay, the correct address is the address that is printed via their own return label.  You may not like that, but that's the reality of the situation.

No one is disputing that. I already clearly explained to you that the buyer got precisely what he wanted. 

Please stop arguing about a side, tangential, "irrelevant because it didn't happen" issue.

7 minutes ago, masterlogan2000 said:

As a buyer wanting a return, without knowing anything about the seller, would you honestly risk your refund for a seller that has already failed to properly deliver the package that was originally purchased?

1. The buyer knew much about me.

2. There is no risk for your refund if you pay with your credit card.

3. A seller that has "already failed to properly deliver the package"....? Seriously....? The USPS runs over the package...insured, by the way...(assuming that's what happened; the buyer took a week after it was delivered to inform me there was a problem), but the seller "failed to properly deliver the package"....? No, the seller contracted a carrier, paid to insure the package, and the CARRIER failed to "properly deliver the package."

9 minutes ago, masterlogan2000 said:

As @Mecha_Fantastic stated, what would you do if the buyer originally asked you to write in a new address as his shipping address?  Are you willing to give the buyer the benefit of the doubt and void all of your already limited seller protections because they told you it needed to be shipped somewhere else?

Apples and oranges. Sellers cannot "charge back" an item already delivered. Buyers, however, can charge back a credit card payment.

Are we done now...?

[masterlogan2000]

4 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

Why are folk arguing about the return address thing when it's really about the post office and feebay?

It's not just about the Post Office and eBay.  If the current address was provided at the onset, then there is a possibility that this problem never would have occurred.  If this wasn't at least part of the issue, it should not have even been brought up in the discussion in the first place.  Since it was brought up in the discussion, it is fair game to comment on it.

6 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

Seller didn't return to where RMA asked nicely,RMA said that's fine,he didn't have to.

Hmmm... that's a new revelation that wasn't previously revealed.  Where are you getting this information?

[masterlogan2000]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Are we done now...?

Listen, I'm rooting for you to get this sorted out, along with any claim that should be owed to you through insurance.  We can "argue" all night about this, but that's not why I'm here.

I do believe that what eBay is doing here is criminal, but I also believe that making a few more phone calls to them will get this sorted out.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

In this case with their being a different return address on the original box than on the return label I would have contacted the seller first then Ebay just to do everything possible to get everyone on same page before sending the package back. If after doing so Ebay still tells him to return to a certain address that's a different matter.

In this case it looks like the buyer didn't do everything possible to try and clarify some conflicting return address information before acting. I know he's not required to but its just common courtesy you know 

Oh, we both did. In this case, I noticed as soon as I hit the return button, and immediately wrote the buyer that my old address had been "populated" (as the cool IT kids say) with my old "return" address. He didn't respond for a day or so, but instead called eBay. Of course, eBay's so corrupt, most of the drones working in their first level customer service centers don't have any idea what they're doing. The buyer wrote to me and said "They should be able to switch the address out for you if you call. "

Which, of course, isn't true. 

So, he didn't want to write in the correct return address, he didn't have to. Problem solved. I think it's a sad indictment on our society, but what can ya do...? I think arguing that the buyer shouldn't have given any benefit of the doubt is pretty cynical, and the whole point of "reputation scores" on eBay is so that buyers AREN'T buying blind, that they DO know at least a little about their sellers, but other people see things differently. It's certainly not a valid argument that they give up all their rights in doing so, of course.

[RockMyAmadeus]

10 minutes ago, masterlogan2000 said:

It's not just about the Post Office and eBay.  If the current address was provided at the onset, then there is a possibility that this problem never would have occurred.  If this wasn't at least part of the issue, it should not have even been brought up in the discussion in the first place.  Since it was brought up in the discussion, it is fair game to comment on it.

Yes, and I think we've pretty well exhausted it, since it never happened. You say "if the current address was provided at the onset, then there is a possibility that this problem never would have occurred." I say "if the buyer had written in the correct address, then there is a possibility that this problem never would have occurred." Both equally true.

All of which is still irrelevant, because the post office delivered the package to the wrong address, regardless of what was on the label.

12 minutes ago, masterlogan2000 said:

Hmmm... that's a new revelation that wasn't previously revealed.  Where are you getting this information?

It was, in fact, previously revealed.

"But, I figured, my forwarding order is valid for a year, doesn't expire until January, and I've gotten everything so far, so I figured it'd be fine to ship it back and it would be forwarded to me, like everything else has been."

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

9 minutes ago, masterlogan2000 said:

Listen, I'm rooting for you to get this sorted out, along with any claim that should be owed to you through insurance.  We can "argue" all night about this, but that's not why I'm here.

I do believe that what eBay is doing here is criminal, but I also believe that making a few more phone calls to them will get this sorted out.

 

We shall see.

Long, long, very very long, bitter experience says otherwise. 

But we shall see.

[MGsimba77]

6 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

All of which is still irrelevant, because the post office delivered the package to the wrong address, regardless of what was on the label.

Well Warner Brothers likely receives a ton of packages that have to be signed for every day. After getting off the phone with USPS maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to try and get em on the horn

[WPPJames]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

as I deal with maybe 1 return every 5 years

That's pretty awesome. Maybe it's not worth getting this worked up about something that happens once every 5 years. Every business loses a small amount of profits to fraud/refunds/shipping issues/etc. And I think you are being a bit harsh on the buyer. I'm sure he wasn't happy about getting a damaged item. Having to take a bunch of photos (although not enough for your liking) and take the time and effort to send it back. Having a 100% feedback rating on Ebay doesn't mean as much as some people would like to think. I've dealt with a couple of 100%'s as a buyer that were very rude and difficult to work with to resolve an issue. Maybe this buyer had a similar experience prior to your sale and just said, "screw it, I'm not going through all that again. I'll just contact Ebay directly". That's obviously not your fault and yes, the courteous thing would to have been to contact you first. I'd be *d if I were you. I'd also be *d if I was the buyer. I don't think Ebay is necessarily corrupt or doing things that are illegal. But they will always side in their own $$$ best interest. I agree that when they are taking 10%+ of your sales fee they should be a little more understanding and accommodating instead of just sending you to talk to "Peggy" (Discover Card commercial), but it is what it is.

[RockMyAmadeus]

10 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

Well Warner Brothers likely receives a ton of packages that have to be signed for every day. After getting off the phone with USPS maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to try and get em on the horn

Oh, that's my first call. I'm hoping this "LARRY LAZANO" person is someone people know...but Warners is HUGE. I looked up the Zip, and, while it's an area I'm uber familiar with, I didn't know Warners had an office there. It's mostly a residential neighborhood. But here's to hoping. Frankly...I'm glad it says WB. I've never seen a business named on the delivery before. And without the exact address...which they didn't provide...I don't know which building it could be. 

Warners takes up the entire Southwestern quadrant of Burbank. It's huge. But I have a name, and I have a place, so it's a start.

I was even contemplating driving back out there, if they could A. find the package, and B. hold it for me.

Edited September 24, 2019 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 minutes ago, WPPJames said:

That's pretty awesome. Maybe it's not worth getting this worked up about something that happens once every 5 years. Every business loses a small amount of profits to fraud/refunds/shipping issues/etc. And I think you are being a bit harsh on the buyer. I'm sure he wasn't happy about getting a damaged item. Having to take a bunch of photos (although not enough for your liking) and take the time and effort to send it back. Having a 100% feedback rating on Ebay doesn't mean as much as some people would like to think. I've dealt with a couple of 100%'s as a buyer that were very rude and difficult to work with to resolve an issue. Maybe this buyer had a similar experience prior to your sale and just said, "screw it, I'm not going through all that again. I'll just contact Ebay directly". That's obviously not your fault and yes, the courteous thing would to have been to contact you first. I'd be *d if I were you. I'd also be *d if I was the buyer. I don't think Ebay is necessarily corrupt or doing things that are illegal. But they will always side in their own $$$ best interest. I agree that when they are taking 10%+ of your sales fee they should be a little more understanding and accommodating instead of just sending you to talk to "Peggy" (Discover Card commercial), but it is what it is.

I'm not in a position to lose $450. 

And yes, eBay is corrupt and does things that are illegal. They've been taken to court many times...and lost several of those times.

Edited September 24, 2019 by RockMyAmadeus

[masterlogan2000]

 

36 minutes ago, masterlogan2000 said:

45 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

Seller didn't return to where RMA asked nicely,RMA said that's fine,he didn't have to.

Hmmm... that's a new revelation that wasn't previously revealed.  Where are you getting this information?

21 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

"But, I figured, my forwarding order is valid for a year, doesn't expire until January, and I've gotten everything so far, so I figured it'd be fine to ship it back and it would be forwarded to me, like everything else has been."

You figuring something would happen with the forwarding order and you reaching out to the buyer saying it's fine are two completely different... you know what, nevermind...

Good luck with everything.  I hope it works out.

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by masterlogan2000

[WPPJames]

3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

And yes, eBay is corrupt and does things that are illegal

I probably should have said any more corrupt than most other companies. Trust me, I have issues with Ebay as well. And I didn't notice the sales price of the item before. That is a LOT of money to lose. I hope you are able to somehow get it worked out. Not sure what your best recourse would be at this point. Sounds like Ebay has basically told you it's your problem not ours. I think you said the shipment to the buyer was insured? I may have missed this in the thread, but no recourse with USPS saying the shipment arrived damaged and file a claim? Again, I haven't read every response here, so maybe I missed that.

[WPPJames]

38 minutes ago, WPPJames said:

but no recourse with USPS saying the shipment arrived damaged and file a claim

Hmm... guess that might work if the shipment never arrived. But arrived damaged you would need to show the damaged item. Which you don't have because it was delivered to Looney Toons. Hoping for the best but not sensing a good outcome on this one.

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, masterlogan2000 said:

You figuring something would happen with the forwarding order and you reaching out to the buyer saying it's fine are two completely different... you know what, nevermind...

Don't assume. They're not completely different. It's not explicit, but it's perfectly clear by implication. How? The buyer was already waiting to hear what to do (wait for a new label, or ship to the address on the current label), which is made known by my mentioning his refusal to write in the correct address. It makes no sense to say "I figured it was fine" and then not have passed that information on to the buyer, who was waiting for it.

Here's the original statement, several posts back:

"...the buyer refused to simply write in my new PO box...

But, I figured, my forwarding order is valid for a year, doesn't expire until January, and I've gotten everything so far, so I figured it'd be fine to ship it back and it would be forwarded to me, like everything else has been."

How was the buyer supposed to know that if I didn't also tell him? Guess...?

(Which, by the way, blows a bit of a hole in your argument. The buyer...after being told that my address was an old one....still took the risk to ship it there, because 1. it was the "official" one he was given, and 2. I told him it was ok. So, yes, the buyer was willing to take SOME risk shipping to an address he knew was NOT correct, minimal though it was to HIM. After all....I COULD have given him a bogus, non-existent address, and the package would have bounced back to him....and it would have been past the deadline to return, meaning he's out of luck as far as eBay is concerned.)

If you're going to make an issue of things which aren't relevant, and are only mentioned by way of "filling in the details"...then be prepared for the rebuttal. Here's the entire chain; hopefully this will clarify:

Spoiler

 

Me upon seeing the wrong address on the return label: "Hi....unfortunately, the eBay system sucks. It gave you my old PO Box to return to.

Please return to the return address on the original label:

XXX XXXXX

PO Box XXX

XXXXX CA XXXXX

Please acknowledge, so I know you got this.

Thank you!"

Buyer (a day later): "Thank you for the quick response. I’m unable to change the address on the printed return label. Can you please provide a new label with the updated address?"

Me: "You can just cross it out and write the correct one underneath. It will get here (and show proper delivery.) Sorry about that..."

Buyer: " What I meant by that is EBay won’t allow a buyer/seller to send an item back to an address that is not listed or verbally provided. I called EBay yesterday just to verify before I send the item back. I read all of their updated terms and agreements just to stay in the know, to avoid any issues. They should be able to switch the address out for you if you call. "

Me (after getting off the phone with eBay to see if they could reissue the label with the correct address): "eBay is not able to make the switch. I would have to create a new label outside of eBay and upload it to the case. If you'd rather not make the address change by hand, go ahead and ship it to my PO Box XXXXX, Burbank, CA 91510 address using that label. It will get to me.

Thank you for your patience and understanding."

 

Exactly as the porcupine said, revealed from the context of the discussion, which is where he got it. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by RockMyAmadeus

[MGsimba77]

4 minutes ago, WPPJames said:

Hmm... guess that might work if the shipment never arrived. But arrived damaged you would need to show the damaged item. Which you don't have because it was delivered to Looney Toons. Hoping for the best but not sensing a good outcome on this one.

Yeah RMA shouldn't be out 450 dollars because some fool was too incompetent to do their job be it the buyer sending it to Looney Toons or the mail carrier misdelivering it there. Theres nothing in either of his return addresses indicating Warner Brothers! Ebay blowing him off not even considering his side is beneath contempt 🤬😡! They suck!

[WPPJames]

3 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

Yeah RMA shouldn't be out 450 dollars because some fool was too incompetent to do their job be it the buyer sending it to Looney Toons or the mail carrier misdelivering it there. Theres nothing in either of his return addresses indicating Warner Brothers! Ebay blowing him off not even considering his side is beneath contempt 🤬😡! They suck!

That's all well and good, but what's your suggestion for him getting his money back? I just don't see one. I wish I did. I personally have a particular MAJOR issue with Ebay, but I won't hijack RMA's thread to bring it up here.

[MGsimba77]

1 minute ago, WPPJames said:

That's all well and good, but what's your suggestion for him getting his money back? I just don't see one. I wish I did. I personally have a particular MAJOR issue with Ebay, but I won't hijack RMA's thread to bring it up here.

Contact both Warner Brothers and USPS to try and locate the package. He has a tracking number and a name that was signed for at Warner Brothers. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

15 minutes ago, WPPJames said:

Hmm... guess that might work if the shipment never arrived. But arrived damaged you would need to show the damaged item. Which you don't have because it was delivered to Looney Toons. Hoping for the best but not sensing a good outcome on this one.

Yeah, it's definitely a tricky one. They misdeliver the return that I needed to show them for the insurance claim. Now what? I think I'll get it back eventually, but all of this could have been avoided with a little patience and understanding from the buyer. 

I'm hoping...and I'm certainly going to show them all the paperwork...that the USPS doesn't get frosty about only having whatever this buyer sent me. I have a good relationship with the Burbank PO, so we'll see.

As for the buyer...yes, absolutely he had every right to be upset...but not at me. I'm SUPER anal about all of these things, which annoys sellers, and delights buyers. But...you saw the box. It looks like someone ran over it. Nothing would have prevented that damage, not the four layers of bubble wrap which surrounded the book, not the "double flat rate envelope" into which that goes, not the packing peanuts to keep everything stable, nothing. You stomp on a box...the slab is gonna break.