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Warning: More Corrupt, Fraudulent, and Criminal Behavior by eBay
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257 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

yes, absolutely he had every right to be upset...but not at me

Totally agree 100%. But see ML2000's point as well. Buyer doesn't know you and maybe he had a bad experience with a 100% Ebayer before. Both you and the buyer have a reason to be upset. You much more than him as you are potentially out major $$$. He's covered.

And yea, that box looks like it was beat with a sledgehammer. I've seen some pretty bad USPS deliveries before, but nothing close to that. That's insane.

Again, hoping you can get this worked out.

EDIT: And how in the H E double hockey sticks did you manage to sell that for $650? I sold my NM copy a year ago for a fraction of that. 

Edited by WPPJames
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7 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

It looks like someone ran over it. Nothing would have prevented that damage, not the four layers of bubble wrap which surrounded the book, not the "double flat rate envelope" into which that goes, not the packing peanuts to keep everything stable, nothing. You stomp on a box...the slab is gonna break. 

It looks like Ace Ventura delivered your package drop kick style bro 

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5 minutes ago, WPPJames said:

Buyer doesn't know you and maybe he had a bad experience with a 100% Ebayer before

I've been on eBay since 1998. I've been through the wringer as a buyer. I completely understand the buyer's reasons for doing what he did. I just don't agree with them. But I am certainly familiar with them, intimately.

I give people the benefit of the doubt. I bend over backwards to make my customers happy. It's not unreasonable to expect a SMIDGEN of benefit of the doubt. And when a seller sends something that, and it's destroyed in the mail...even if I know it's because of garbage packaging...I don't rush to file a claim against them. I reach out to them. I ask them how they want to handle it.

And when a buyer doesn't pay, I don't open an Unpaid Item Case against them 2 days after the listing ended. I give them a week. THEN I send them a message. I don't resort to an unpaid item until I've exhausted every avenue prior to that. I won an auction in January this year...the Saturday of MLK weekend, a holiday weekend....and by Monday...the day of the holiday...I had a shiny new unpaid item case against me. That's extreme. :preach: Back in my day, we waited WEEKS for checks and money orders to come...now? Kids have a meltdown if you don't pay them five seconds after an AUCTION ends on a holiday weekend.

:screwy:

If this were Craigslist, with no reputation of any kind? Fine. Totally understand the caution. But it's not. 

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3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I don't rush to file a claim against them. I reach out to them. I ask them how they want to handle it

I do the same. My only point was that sometimes a bad experience as a buyer taints you towards all sellers in the future. No it's not fair. No you shouldn't judge everyone else by a bad experience with a different seller. But I can *understand* how a bad experience could make you jaded. "This was a 100% seller and he treated me like garbage. Why bother connecting with this other one". Main point just being that a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us. Whether we are buyers or sellers. And for most of us, we are both.

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And here we go again...

49 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Don't assume.

I made no assumption.  In fact, if you're suggesting that I read into the context of your words, that's a form of "making an assumption".  Your clarification is appreciated, as your story was NOT clear as you laid it out originally.

 

Let's recap a few of your own words to illustrate why there may be confusion...

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I have no idea. I moved this year, so my return address was my old PO box. Before I caught it, I had sent out a return label.

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

and the buyer refused to simply write in my new PO box

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

But, I figured, my forwarding order is valid for a year, doesn't expire until January, and I've gotten everything so far, so I figured it'd be fine to ship it back and it would be forwarded to me, like everything else has been.

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The buyer gave ZERO benefit of the doubt. Didn't contact me directly, just went straight to eBay. Refused to WORK WITH ME, just said "nope, nope, NOPE!!" Wouldn't listen to me, when he could see the address I asked him to send it back to was IDENTICAL TO THE RETURN ADDRESS ON THE ORIGINAL PACKAGE. It wasn't a "different" address...it was the CORRECT address.

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

That's not how gentlemen conduct themselves, regardless of technicalities. In the END..the buyer got PRECISELY what he wanted, the WAY he wanted. That doesn't preclude me from calling the buyer tacky and uncouth.

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

So, did the buyer do anything wrong...? You be the judge.

Sorry if I didn't make the assumption that "RMA said that's fine" with regards to shipping the return to the original address.  Afterall, you're not known for arguing with people, and after the buyer "Refused to work with you", just said "nope, nope, NOPE!!", and "Wouldn't listen to you"... I guess you just told him that it was cool to do it his way...

Again, I'm glad you clarified the whole ordeal so that others won't make bad assumptions and get the wrong idea from your words.  Only good assumptions are welcome in the thread.

 

 

49 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

If you're going to make an issue of things which aren't relevant,

These arguments are indeed relevant and are born of...

1)  Your initial inclusion of the incorrect return address into this very discussion.  Again, if it was irrelevant, then you should never have brought it up in the first place.  Since you did, it's a topic that is open to discussion.

2)  Your refusal to acknowledge any wrongdoing on your own part for why you are in this situation in the first place.  Your tone and attitude intimate considerable blame on the buyer, who, as others have pointed out, is simply trying to get a refund.  You complain about his methods to receive his refund, but fail to recognize that it is his RIGHT to get a refund HIS way, not YOUR way.  Your feedback rating... irrelevant.  Your 30 day return policy.. irrelevant.  Your response time to the case opened against you... irrelevant.  The nationality of the eBay representatives you spoke with... irrelevant.  The buyer being a flipper... irrelevant.  The buyer having other avenues for a refund... irrelevant.  He chose the method of refund HE wanted, so deal with it.

 

Take some responsibility for your own actions here, as sympathy for your situation is waning.

 

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5 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Buyer, without contacting me directly, opens a return case on eBay, which I despise because it's not how you conduct business, but whatever.

I ask buyer for further pictures, specifically of all sides of the box, and immediately file insurance claim with USPS.

"But...you can see that it wasn't delivered to me, and the buyer is responsible for getting it back to ME."

"Sorry...it shows as delivered, and since it's delivered to the same city and state, that's good enough."

"But...you can SEE that it wasn't returned to ME. If I, as a seller, send something to someone in New York, I'm responsible for getting it to THEM...not New York."

"Sorry, there's nothing we can do. The best thing you can do is call the USPS and try to locate the package."

This is, of course, fraud, criminal, and illegal. 

eBay's own policy says this:

"If you're returning an item, you'll need to ship it back to the seller. "

"Once the seller receives the item back from you,"

The eBay policies suck! That's a fact! :rulez:

Buyers are frequently childish, they blame the seller if an item gets actually destroyed by the couriers, it doesn't make sense!

eBay always back the buyers, no matter what, the sellers are always wrong, always seen as criminals whom try to steal money from the buyer.

It doesn't matter what the sellers do or say, eBay, always backed by PayPal, has the right to hack your PayPal account and refund the buyer. Are you a seller with 1K positive feedback vs a buyer with 0 feedback? It doesn't matter! The seller is always dead wrong.

In a recent friendly chat with eBay customer service, I've been told that the seller his responsible for the item until it is delivered to the buyer.

Me: "Am I a courier? Should I deliver my items door 2 door?".

The lovely eBay support team member: "the seller has to guarantee to item to be delivered safely to the buyer" (or like these)

Honestly I use eBay because it allows me to be viewed by potential customers worldwide, but that's it! Their policies are unreasonable. I'm setting up my own website and taking all my habitual customers away from eBay. If all of us will do it, eBay will shut down and their very supportive customer service team members will loose their helpful job :sumo: 

Would you like to talk about people whom bid at auctions and never pay? I've sold items by "buy it now" and never received any money! I've also received direct offers, accepted them, and never been paid! If one does the same in a real auction house, one is forced to pay, or one lost his deposit, because professional auctioneers don't like to waste time and to lose fees on sales, but eBay never force a buyer to pay, it always forces a seller to refund! 

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Did you call PayPal?

PayPal has been known to reverse eBay decisions before.  Then eBay is responsible for making everyone whole.  Just saying...  

Just because one entity says, 'no', does not mean the other entity won't say 'yes.'

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3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Apples and oranges. Sellers cannot "charge back" an item already delivered. Buyers, however, can charge back a credit card payment.

Are we done now...?

That's assuming he paid via credit card. While he probably did, it may not have been the case. Doing so would also eliminate one of the two forms of protection he enjoys in this scenario, that being the ability to complain to Paypal, and then if he's unhappy with the outcome, to appeal to the card provider to have them investigate. And beyond THAT he'd also be cutting his 'warranty time' in half, and maybe even more, as PayPal allows for claims to be filed for up to 6 months, while credit cards usually max out at 90 days. 

So yeah, there's quite a few reasons why it would not be in his best interests to do as you requested, and that's not even accounting for the general inconvenience of doing a credit card disputed transaction versus a PayPal dispute. A PayPal dispute is generally over with in days to a week, while a CC dispute can take up to 6-8 weeks, and can involve copious amounts of manual paperwork and trips to the bank. That's an inconvenience that many just don't have time for. 

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8 minutes ago, OrangeNemesis said:

just another reason why I wont use the united states postal service to ship ANYTHING

See, I would rather use them then Fed Ex.    Fed Ex left two packages that needed to be signed for on the doorstep.  Luckily it was flat so people from the street could not really see it.  Luckily it did not rain. 

I would think it was me and now they just screw around due to complaining, but I recently found a Fed Ex delivery on my doorstep that should have been signed for, and it belonged to my neighbor.  Fed Ex is the worst around here or whoever has the south shore of LI route. 

Edited by Buzzetta
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Hope this all works out for you RMA.

Your current experience added to my own experiences are why I am reluctant to sell my own comics on Ebay

I think my worst was selling to a CGC board member who had bought several books from me before. I sent the book insured + tracking + signature required. The book gets delivered, and signed for but not by my buyer.

I end up refunding the buyer, losing the book and since the book is considered "delivered" I can't file an insurance claim.

Nice scam.

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7 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

See, I would rather use them then Fed Ex.    Fed Ex left two packages that needed to be signed for on the doorstep.  Luckily it was flat so people from the street could not really see it.  Luckily it did not rain. 

I would think it was me and now they just screw around due to complaining, but I recently found a Fed Ex delivery on my doorstep that should have been signed for, and it belonged to my neighbor.  Fed Ex is the worst around here or whoever has the south shore of LI route. 

I feel ya. I'm sure everyone has there own history with certain shipping companies. Ive been burned by USPS to much to use them. UPS on the other hand has never screwed me "yet".

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I had a package that was severely damaged when the buyer received it. Had a tire track on it and was flattened over almost 1/2 the shipping box.  About 1/4 of the slab inside was badly cracked and partially shattered. The buyer of course requested to return the item and get a refund. I had the buyer send me pictures and forwarded them to USPS to make a claim. I insured the item for its full purchase price which in this case was only around $120 if I remember correctly. However when I submitted the claim to USPS, their decision was to only pay $50 for damages, not the full insured amount. Their reasoning for the partial payment of the insurance claim was, in their opinion, the item was not a total loss. WTF! Of course in my mind, I'm thinking I paid for insurance for the whole amount of the sale, and the package and the item was damaged while in their care to the point the buyer did not want the item. That's a total loss to me, but tough s--t according to USPS. Take our payment or leave it regardless of what you paid us to insure your sale.

So to RMA, I'm curious to see if you get a full payment from USPS for the damaged item, or will they try to weasel you out of it by claiming the item is not a total loss in their opinion.

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1 hour ago, Buzzetta said:

See, I would rather use them then Fed Ex.    Fed Ex left two packages that needed to be signed for on the doorstep.  Luckily it was flat so people from the street could not really see it.  Luckily it did not rain. 

I would think it was me and now they just screw around due to complaining, but I recently found a Fed Ex delivery on my doorstep that should have been signed for, and it belonged to my neighbor.  Fed Ex is the worst around here or whoever has the south shore of LI route. 

I've had bad issues with Fed ex and UPS in Canada.

Fed Ex. dropped off a package at the front of my porch enclosure in the rain..... I mean the drive could of left it at the Front door inside the porch enclosure so its hidden and out of the rain... Nope didn't happen..

UPS delivered my package to a neighbor down the street thankfully they called and I was able to come and pick it up. 

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