Available older keys "drying up" a report from NYCC 6 6

[drotto]

I was at day one of NYCC and managed to pick up a few keys that I wanted, but was unable to find several issues I was considering.  In the past, NYCC was easy to find just about any comic you wanted, and for Bronze age and younger was still flush with copies on most big books.  The disappointing part was key GA and silver were either nowhere, or only available at unobtainable (at least more then I could spend levels). Or when issues were there I could find 1 maybe 2 copies, while in the past they were plentiful. From my observations (and I have been to NYCC every year for 10 plus years), the older keys were noticable reduced in number. The number of dealers there had remained roughly the same.

 

I commented on this to two dealers that are generally great to work with, reasonably priced (no convention premiums), and both said they had noticed the same thing.  Both parties went as far to say they brought less stuff this year because they just do not have the stock and are having problems getting it especially in mid grades (the sweat spot for many collectors). One even said he thinks the influx of new collectors have taken books up into collections, and books are being kept, not passed around as much as they used to be.

 

Any thoughts?  Are others noticing the same thing? Is this isolated to just NYCC this year?

[BlowUpTheMoon]

1 minute ago, drotto said:

the older keys were noticeably reduced in number.

Examples? 

[WolverineX]

5 minutes ago, drotto said:

I was at day one of NYCC and managed to pick up a few keys that I wanted, but was unable to find several issues I was considering.  In the past, NYCC was easy to find just about any comic you wanted, and for Bronze age and younger was still flush with copies on most big books.  The disappointing part was key GA and silver were either nowhere, or only available at unobtainable (at least more then I could spend levels). Or when issues were there I could find 1 maybe 2 copies, while in the past they were plentiful. From my observations (and I have been to NYCC every year for 10 plus years), the older keys were noticable reduced in number. The number of dealers there had remained roughly the same.

 

I commented on this to two dealers that are generally great to work with, reasonably priced (no convention premiums), and both said they had noticed the same thing.  Both parties went as far to say they brought less stuff this year because they just do not have the stock and are having problems getting it especially in mid grades (the sweat spot for many collectors). One even said he thinks the influx of new collectors have taken books up into collections, and books are being kept, not passed around as much as they used to be.

 

Any thoughts?  Are others noticing the same thing? Is this isolated to just NYCC this year?

I also be interested did hear what type of books. I feel like I see them everywhere now. And if not, you can always buy on eBay

[drotto]

I was looking mainly for lower to mid grade Batmans, key or first appearance for villians.  The had multiple Mr. Freeze and like one of Scarecrow, but that is all I saw.  I could have misses them, but I looked around for a good solid 3 or 4 hours and asked several dealers if they had them. Last year when that was not my focus, I saw many.

 

I just brought this up because when I commented to two dealers, they both said they felt early keys in generally were drying up, and "disappearing " into permanent collections.

[1Cool]

4 hours ago, drotto said:

I was looking mainly for lower to mid grade Batmans, key or first appearance for villians.  The had multiple Mr. Freeze and like one of Scarecrow, but that is all I saw.  I could have misses them, but I looked around for a good solid 3 or 4 hours and asked several dealers if they had them. Last year when that was not my focus, I saw many.

 

I just brought this up because when I commented to two dealers, they both said they felt early keys in generally were drying up, and "disappearing " into permanent collections.

It makes sense since a lot of the hard core collectors are selling off collections and concentrating on buying just mega keys.  if those guys are planning on holding for awhile then it makes sense the number of available key copies will dwindle over time.

Edited October 4, 2019 by 1Cool

[RockMyAmadeus]

I try not to let my comics near any sweat spots....

[Robot Man]

With the quick huge rise in keys, classic covers and the like, I think people are holding to them to see where this settles out at. 

In the past year, I have seen less and less key books at shows. The ones that are there are at absolute nose bleed prices. Dealers just can’t get them. Even eBay has slowed down for the most part. 

I am doing the same thing. I just don’t know how to price PCH, Baker, L.B. Cole, keys and origin books. They are just too hard to get now days. 

If I bring these to shows, I get just swamped by the local flippers just begging for them. 

These books might just be locked up until such time as there is some semblance of stabilization in the hobby. 

[drotto]

14 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

With the quick huge rise in keys, classic covers and the like, I think people are holding to them to see where this settles out at. 

In the past year, I have seen less and less key books at shows. The ones that are there are at absolute nose bleed prices. Dealers just can’t get them. Even eBay has slowed down for the most part. 

I am doing the same thing. I just don’t know how to price PCH, Baker, L.B. Cole, keys and origin books. They are just too hard to get now days. 

If I bring these to shows, I get just swamped by the local flippers just begging for them. 

These books might just be locked up until such time as there is some semblance of stabilization in the hobby. 

I had managed a few years back to get 3 GA Catwoman covers. Two of them I have seen pop up again rarely, the third I have is the last listed sale for that book in that grade and it was over 3 years ago now.  I have no intention of letting the books go at this time, but I have no clue in this market how to value them.

[batman_fan]

16 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

With the quick huge rise in keys, classic covers and the like, I think people are holding to them to see where this settles out at. 

In the past year, I have seen less and less key books at shows. The ones that are there are at absolute nose bleed prices. Dealers just can’t get them. Even eBay has slowed down for the most part. 

I am doing the same thing. I just don’t know how to price PCH, Baker, L.B. Cole, keys and origin books. They are just too hard to get now days. 

If I bring these to shows, I get just swamped by the local flippers just begging for them. 

These books might just be locked up until such time as there is some semblance of stabilization in the hobby. 

Be prepared to hear “it’s for my private collection. It will go in the vault where it won’t see the light of day until I am dead, so can you take 25% off the price.” Only to see it freshly pressed in a new CGC holder for sell at 10x what you sold it for. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just hoard them until no one wants them, they say.

[Robot Man]

1 minute ago, batman_fan said:

Be prepared to hear “it’s for my private collection. It will go in the vault where it won’t see the light of day until I am dead, so can you take 25% off the price.” Only to see it freshly pressed in a new CGC holder for sell at 10x what you sold it for. 

Oh, believe me, after 40+ years in this hobby I’ve heard it all. That one is very common. I don’t care what you do with it as long as you pay me what I want. Trouble is, I don’t know what to ask anymore. 

I’ve seen a lot of the younger flippers lose their shirts lately. I recently sold a book at a show for $1,200. To a guy who immediately put it on the bay and ended up with $925. for it. 

Between ebay and Instagram, I pay close attention to these guys. They probably figure I’m too old or stupid to do so. At best, most are making 5-10%. Many times losing money. This is bad for the hobby. They just have that quick “turn and burn” attitude. 

Us “old guys” just  have a lot more patience...

[drotto]

11 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

Oh, believe me, after 40+ years in this hobby I’ve heard it all. That one is very common. I don’t care what you do with it as long as you pay me what I want. Trouble is, I don’t know what to ask anymore. 

I’ve seen a lot of the younger flippers lose their shirts lately. I recently sold a book at a show for $1,200. To a guy who immediately put it on the bay and ended up with $925. for it. 

Between ebay and Instagram, I pay close attention to these guys. They probably figure I’m too old or stupid to do so. At best, most are making 5-10%. Many times losing money. This is bad for the hobby. They just have that quick “turn and burn” attitude. 

Us “old guys” just  have a lot more patience...

I am very upfront and honest with dealers, with things like GPA and Ebay, it is very easy on "common" keys to find the current prices very quickly as well as trends.  I know the dealers are in the same general marketplace, and often deal with similar price constraints to collectors. If a dealer is at or near GPA, we can talk. I know they need to make some money. When I see people offering a book 10%, 20%, or more over the going price (regardless of who you are), it is very hard to even start talking about a deal.  It is not worth my time, and I try hard to avoid impulse buys, and convention premiums.

Edited October 4, 2019 by drotto

[Phicks]

3 hours ago, drotto said:

I was looking mainly for lower to mid grade Batmans, key or first appearance for villians.  The had multiple Mr. Freeze and like one of Scarecrow, but that is all I saw.  I could have misses them, but I looked around for a good solid 3 or 4 hours and asked several dealers if they had them. Last year when that was not my focus, I saw many.

 

I just brought this up because when I commented to two dealers, they both said they felt early keys in generally were drying up, and "disappearing " into permanent collections.

1. Would you think any better of a buyer if their intention instead was to buy a book and quickly flip it?

2. No collection is permanent.  We all have an expiry date.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Phicks
Spelling

[justafan]

22 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

Be prepared to hear “it’s for my private collection. It will go in the vault where it won’t see the light of day until I am dead, so can you take 25% off the price.” Only to see it freshly pressed in a new CGC holder for sell at 10x what you sold it for. 

I just made a big purchase at NYCC and told the dealer something along those lines AFTER I bought the book and was thinking this exact thing as I was making the purchase and fully mean it but I never asked for any discount because of it.   I feel that's just poor form. If I ask for a discount or what is the best they can do it's at the beginning of the negotiation because I understand sometimes they either do or do not have wiggle room and or might be testing the waters with the convention shoppers, but mostly it's hard to believe someone nowadays when anyone uses that and you just don't want to be that guy. Don't be THAT guy.

[drotto]

1 minute ago, Phicks said:

1. Would you think any better of a buyer of their intention instead was to buy a book and quickly flip it?

2. No collection is permanent.  We all have an expiry date.

No, if you want to try and quick flip, that is your business and the risk you elected to take.  I know dealers it is their business to find then sell books. If you are offering a quick flip, I will look at it provided the price is fair and in line with the market.  If you buy a book to flip, and pump up the price, I know I am educated enough to avoid that buy.  I do think however if too many less informed people bit at something that is "hot" it does inflate the prices for those of us that do want to collects.

 

When I am buying older keys, I personally do not buy with the intention to flip.  It is nice to know from the spending money perspective, that I could get most if not make a little if I was forced to sell, but that is more comfort than anything else. It also makes it OK with the wife. Will I hold all my current books till death, not likely, but most should be with me for awhile.

[Callaway29]

2 minutes ago, justafan said:

I just made a big purchase at NYCC and told the dealer something along those lines AFTER I bought the book and was thinking this exact thing as I was making the purchase and fully mean it but I never asked for any discount because of it.   I feel that's just poor form. If I ask for a discount or what is the best they can do it's at the beginning of the negotiation because I understand sometimes they either do or do not have wiggle room and or might be testing the waters with the convention shoppers, but mostly it's hard to believe someone nowadays when anyone uses that and you just don't want to be that guy. Don't be THAT guy.

100% agree, BUT...I've certainly purchased books thinking I was going to retain them much longer than I actually ended up doing so... Ties into the cost of books these days. To keep experiencing new books, quite often others have to go... So changing your mind, taste, and focus is allowed. But like you said, it's best just to not use that "line" at all. It's become cliche... 

[drotto]

4 minutes ago, justafan said:

I just made a big purchase at NYCC and told the dealer something along those lines AFTER I bought the book and was thinking this exact thing as I was making the purchase and fully mean it but I never asked for any discount because of it.   I feel that's just poor form. If I ask for a discount or what is the best they can do it's at the beginning of the negotiation because I understand sometimes they either do or do not have wiggle room and or might be testing the waters with the convention shoppers, but mostly it's hard to believe someone nowadays when anyone uses that and you just don't want to be that guy. Don't be THAT guy.

I always try to haggle a bit, I see it as part of the game. Most dealers are willing to move some, that is why I always ask.  Dealers I have used on multiple occasions will usually throw me a small bone,  even if the price is dead on.

[WolverineX]

38 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

Be prepared to hear “it’s for my private collection. It will go in the vault where it won’t see the light of day until I am dead, so can you take 25% off the price.” Only to see it freshly pressed in a new CGC holder for sell at 10x what you sold it for. 

So that's how my local comic shop owner scores on his deals

[FlyingDonut]

3 hours ago, drotto said:

I was looking mainly for lower to mid grade Batmans, key or first appearance for villians.  The had multiple Mr. Freeze and like one of Scarecrow, but that is all I saw.  I could have misses them, but I looked around for a good solid 3 or 4 hours and asked several dealers if they had them. Last year when that was not my focus, I saw many.

 

I just brought this up because when I commented to two dealers, they both said they felt early keys in generally were drying up, and "disappearing " into permanent collections.

Again, what are you looking for? Low- to mid-grade Batmans are everywhere. High grade yes, but those? Those are pretty easy to find in that grade range.

[FlyingDonut]

Although to the OP point, this was pretty nice last night.