Available older keys "drying up" a report from NYCC 6 6

[ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE]

5 hours ago, the blob said:

For years I have been buying books from shops and shows and selling them for more on ebay. ebay is not necessarily any cheaper, particularly after you pay for shipping. also, please post that FF 3 you got for $350. Books like that usually don't fall through the cracks on ebay if they are properly graded.

 

Actually $320 bucks. From what I’d say it’s a solid 6.0 so that should sell for $1200-$1600.

an eBay gem 

[namisgr]

Unfortunately, the top edge of the cover is almost certainly trimmed.

[the blob]

3 hours ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

Actually $320 bucks. From what I’d say it’s a solid 6.0 so that should sell for $1200-$1600.

an eBay gem 

So you are citing it as a $330 purchase to show how much cheaper ebay is yet say you will sell it for $1200 easy. If it's an easy sale at $1200 why is it an easy buy at $330? Are you saying it is easy to find $900 flips on eBay? If so I might quit my day job.

[ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE]

32 minutes ago, the blob said:

So you are citing it as a $330 purchase to show how much cheaper ebay is yet say you will sell it for $1200 easy. If it's an easy sale at $1200 why is it an easy buy at $330? Are you saying it is easy to find $900 flips on eBay? If so I might quit my day job.

Didn’t say was easy. Just citing that I’d never be able to walk into a comic shop and find it at that price.  I’d also just plain not find an FF#3. Or it would be rare. Most comic shops I been to in Los Angeles don’t have a ton of Kirby stuff. Just a small selection of none at all. 

[Prince Namor]

So you buy an undisclosed trimmed book on eBay for $330, and now you'll turn it around and SELL that undisclosed trimmed book on eBay for $1200? That pretty much sounds like eBay.

This is a PERFECT example of why dealers don't go up against outlier prices from eBay - unqualified sellers AND buyers who think they know grading.

Not to sound like a jerk - everyone here has been down this road at some point in their collecting career - but this is why CGC exists (one of the primary reasons) and why trusted dealers still exist. You buy in the wild and you can very easily get:

a) Someone selling you something who has no idea what they have, where that lack of knowledge can come back to lessen the value of the book in third party grading.

b) Someone selling you something who very MUCH knows what they have and are looking to make you a sucker, NOT disclosing something that can come back to lessen the value of the book in third party grading.

OR

You can go with a trusted and respected dealer who, should something get past him and color touch or trimming or something shows up in grading - he'll make it right for you. Go through the process on eBay a few times and get something graded that was misgraded raw by the seller and try and return it 8 months later and see how much fun that is.

People THINK they're getting a good deal on eBay - that's what eBay is founded upon - so that the buyer can then make some money off of it. But the truth is, that site is more and more filled with people who are out to scam those who are unaware.

The truth is, if you don't know grading and restoration, or even if you're just lazy about looking for it, or the pictures aren't up to par - eBay can be one of the WORST places to buy valuable comics. What I've seen on there - is a long, long history of - if you buy a comic for $900 less than it's FMV - it's because something about that book MAKES it $900 less than it's FMV. Seen it again and again and again. And I've even fallen for it myself, before I learned to know better.

What HELPED you in this situation, wasn't a seller who gave you a good deal, but rather a FORUM of knowledge that can help you keep from having it happen to you again. This isn't a place for know-it-alls to come and constantly try and one up one another (ok, maybe it IS), but rather a place of tremendous information and knowledge that can help ANYONE become more knowledgeable about the hobby and protect themselves from making costly buying mistakes.

Now who knows for sure? Maybe it isn't trimmed. Maybe you got the deal of the year. But history (and expert eyes) has consistently shown otherwise.

[ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

So you buy an undisclosed trimmed book on eBay for $330, and now you'll turn it around and SELL that undisclosed trimmed book on eBay for $1200? That pretty much sounds like eBay.

This is a PERFECT example of why dealers don't go up against outlier prices from eBay - unqualified sellers AND buyers who think they know grading.

Not to sound like a jerk - everyone here has been down this road at some point in their collecting career - but this is why CGC exists (one of the primary reasons) and why trusted dealers still exist. You buy in the wild and you can very easily get:

a) Someone selling you something who has no idea what they have, where that lack of knowledge can come back to lessen the value of the book in third party grading.

b) Someone selling you something who very MUCH knows what they have and are looking to make you a sucker, NOT disclosing something that can come back to lessen the value of the book in third party grading.

OR

You can go with a trusted and respected dealer who, should something get past him and color touch or trimming or something shows up in grading - he'll make it right for you. Go through the process on eBay a few times and get something graded that was misgraded raw by the seller and try and return it 8 months later and see how much fun that is.

People THINK they're getting a good deal on eBay - that's what eBay is founded upon - so that the buyer can then make some money off of it. But the truth is, that site is more and more filled with people who are out to scam those who are unaware.

The truth is, if you don't know grading and restoration, or even if you're just lazy about looking for it, or the pictures aren't up to par - eBay can be one of the WORST places to buy valuable comics. What I've seen on there - is a long, long history of - if you buy a comic for $900 less than it's FMV - it's because something about that book MAKES it $900 less than it's FMV. Seen it again and again and again. And I've even fallen for it myself, before I learned to know better.

What HELPED you in this situation, wasn't a seller who gave you a good deal, but rather a FORUM of knowledge that can help you keep from having it happen to you again. This isn't a place for know-it-alls to come and constantly try and one up one another (ok, maybe it IS), but rather a place of tremendous information and knowledge that can help ANYONE become more knowledgeable about the hobby and protect themselves from making costly buying mistakes.

Now who knows for sure? Maybe it isn't trimmed. Maybe you got the deal of the year. But history (and expert eyes) has consistently shown otherwise.

You seem annoyed/angry that I got a nice looking FF #3 for $320 bucks. Who said anything about me selling it, I was just speculating and what it’s probably worth. And if it’s “trimmed” (I don’t think it is) then okay I have a great book with minor restoration. I just am a fan of fantastic four and want to own the full run and am happy with any book that looks okay. I’m not looking to “flip” anything.

my point about comic shops (at least in LA) is that I would like to go to them but their selection and prices don’t match eBay. I guess I could see your argument if I was looking exclusively for high grade RAWs and was dropping thousands on single issues but I’m not. I just go to a shop and they don’t have much in terms of silver age back issues - and I live in a major city, I can only imagine if I lived someplace smaller the selection of comic stores would shrink.

I posted FF 3 (cuz someone asked me to) as an example of a nice find. I’m not trying to argue comic shops should close, I love comic shops I’m arguing that for me it makes more sense to use eBay for price and selection. 
 

granted - many of the places I buy from are mike high or comic stores, I just don’t happen to live next to shops that have great selections and multiple grades of silver age issues. 
 

people get really persnickety here, geez. 

 

[Jaylam]

I get burned all the time by color touch from either unscrupulous or unsuspecting sellers on eBay. I’ve gotten a lot better at detecting it. Even when I ask before the buy, especially on dark cover books notorious for being altered, sellers still try to pass off a doctored book and then respond in disbelief when I find it, some even arguing with me about it. Sorry, I’ve been to that rodeo before and I know what I’m talking about; return and refund please.

As far as your FF #3 there, I agree that it may have been trimmed. There should be overhang of the cover over the interior of the book, not under hang. Considering the condition of the rest of the book and the appearance of the bottom edge, the other edges are just too perfect, but if you are happy with it and the price you paid, more power to ya brother, that's all that matters.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Jaylam

[Prince Namor]

35 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

You seem annoyed/angry that I got a nice looking FF #3 for $320 bucks. Who said anything about me selling it, I was just speculating and what it’s probably worth. And if it’s “trimmed” (I don’t think it is) then okay I have a great book with minor restoration. I just am a fan of fantastic four and want to own the full run and am happy with any book that looks okay. I’m not looking to “flip” anything.

Not sure how you got that I’m ‘annoyed/angry’ - I personally have no issue with books that have been doctored. More affordable is ok with me. 
 

But if you come on here and try to assign it a value that is inconsistent with what people with a lot more experience in grading see - you’ll get some feedback. 
 

You didn’t specifically say you’d sell that book, but you did say: 

For years I have been buying books from shops and shows and selling them for more on ebay. 

 

From what I’d say it’s a solid 6.0 so that should sell for $1200-$1600.

You’re assigning value. And that’s different than paying a price just because you like it. 

35 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

my point about comic shops (at least in LA) is that I would like to go to them but their selection and prices don’t match eBay. I guess I could see your argument if I was looking exclusively for high grade RAWs and was dropping thousands on single issues but I’m not. I just go to a shop and they don’t have much in terms of silver age back issues - and I live in a major city, I can only imagine if I lived someplace smaller the selection of comic stores would shrink.

Agree. There’s been a decade of lament about the selection of quality books in the LA market Stores on these boards. 

35 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

I posted FF 3 (cuz someone asked me to) as an example of a nice find. I’m not trying to argue comic shops should close, I love comic shops I’m arguing that for me it makes more sense to use eBay for price and selection. 

Sure. If price and selection is your only goal, eBay has a big selection to choose from. And sometimes you can find a decent price.

I still think you got what you paid for there though. 

35 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

granted - many of the places I buy from are mike high or comic stores, I just don’t happen to live next to shops that have great selections and multiple grades of silver age issues. 

me neither. It sucks. 

35 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

people get really persnickety here, geez. 

Just as a heads up - this is a huge, diverse forum of people who’ve worked the market for decades. Not just ‘collected for decades’, but actually worked the market - been there when trends changed - and new information was uncovered - and scam artists were exposed - and CGC changes the hobby, etc. 

So if you make a statement that doesn’t jibe with someone’s 40+ year DAILY dealings in the hobby - most likely someone will call it into question. 
They’re not always right - sometimes there’s no definitive answer - but you WILL get varying opinions. 
 

THAT is the nature of a discussion forum. There’s nothing necessarily ‘persnickety’ about someone who disagrees with someone else. Especially in written form. 

Opinions are expressed. That’s the nature of discussion.

[blazingbob]

47 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

You seem annoyed/angry that I got a nice looking FF #3 for $320 bucks. Who said anything about me selling it, I was just speculating and what it’s probably worth. And if it’s “trimmed” (I don’t think it is) then okay I have a great book with minor restoration. I just am a fan of fantastic four and want to own the full run and am happy with any book that looks okay. I’m not looking to “flip” anything.

my point about comic shops (at least in LA) is that I would like to go to them but their selection and prices don’t match eBay. I guess I could see your argument if I was looking exclusively for high grade RAWs and was dropping thousands on single issues but I’m not. I just go to a shop and they don’t have much in terms of silver age back issues - and I live in a major city, I can only imagine if I lived someplace smaller the selection of comic stores would shrink.

I posted FF 3 (cuz someone asked me to) as an example of a nice find. I’m not trying to argue comic shops should close, I love comic shops I’m arguing that for me it makes more sense to use eBay for price and selection. 
 

granted - many of the places I buy from are mike high or comic stores, I just don’t happen to live next to shops that have great selections and multiple grades of silver age issues. 
 

people get really persnickety here, geez. 

 

I don't think Chuck is annoyed at all.  However if you are ok with buying a book that "might be" restored from a seller who "may have not" disclosed it that makes my job as a on-line/convention seller difficult to compete against.  You are basically telling me that even if the seller ripped you off you are ok with it.  Not exactly the way I want to do business with my customers since a majority of them prefer disclosure versus I find out later when I get it graded or go to sell it.  If somebody has been building a collection and then go to sell it to fund a college education or new home and start finding out their books are restored you don't get smiling faces that they got a "deal"

[ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE]

You didn’t specifically say you’d sell that book, but you did say: 

For years I have been buying books fromshops and shows and selling them for more on ebay. 

 

I never said that dude. I’ve never sold anything on eBay only bought 

 

“the blob” said that. People are defensive kind of fit no reason and are attributing things to me I didn’t say. Take a look at what I’m ACTUALLY saying - it’s not that controversial 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE
Clarification

[ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE]

49 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

I don't think Chuck is annoyed at all.  However if you are ok with buying a book that "might be" restored from a seller who "may have not" disclosed it that makes my job as a on-line/convention seller difficult to compete against.  You are basically telling me that even if the seller ripped you off you are ok with it.  Not exactly the way I want to do business with my customers since a majority of them prefer disclosure versus I find out later when I get it graded or go to sell it.  If somebody has been building a collection and then go to sell it to fund a college education or new home and start finding out their books are restored you don't get smiling faces that they got a "deal"

I love how everyone assumes it’s crazy restored and I’m being ripped off (for $320??) 

a lot of poo pooing me to elevate yourselves and your skills.  Relax.  You all serve a purpose and I’m glad people go to cons and comic shops. I’d love to send it to cgc just to quiet you guys. But I’m not even interested in that because I have no interest in selling it. 
 

in a perfect world my LCS would have a great selection of back silver age back issues with multiple grades of issues. But they don’t and eBay does. C’est la vie 

[comicdonna]

I don't see this thread drying up anytime soon.  

[drbanner]

3 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

I don't see this thread drying up anytime soon.  

Yeah, and I think that FF 3 cover is trimmed at the top. Anyone else catch that? 

[ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE]

2 minutes ago, drbanner said:

Yeah, and I think that FF 3 cover is trimmed at the top. Anyone else catch that? 

You’re the first person to point that out! What!!?

[Dick Pontoon]

I haven't seen an FF #3 sell on ebay in that range for a l-o-n-g time, unless it was a beater.

[greggy]

@Buzzetta

[speedcake]

31 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

I love how everyone assumes it’s crazy restored and I’m being ripped off (for $320??) 

a lot of poo pooing me to elevate yourselves and your skills.  Relax.  You all serve a purpose and I’m glad people go to cons and comic shops. I’d love to send it to cgc just to quiet you guys. But I’m not even interested in that because I have no interest in selling it. 
 

in a perfect world my LCS would have a great selection of back silver age back issues with multiple grades of issues. But they don’t and eBay does. C’est la vie 

Can everyone take a couple of breaths, read what is actually being posted, and step it back a half beat or so? This thread has been a decent read, and there is now some really good opportunities for learning coming up. But if everyone gets hot and the thread gets locked, then all anyone gets out of this is hard feelings.

Orrgo is right, he didn't say he's been buying and flipping on ebay for years. That WAS Blob. Yes he assigned a value to the book, but so what? He didn't imply he was going to try and sell it. He's been pretty insistent its for his personal FF run and that he can't find early FFs for decent prices at his locals.

But @ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE you've also gotta be able to step back a sec and not take whats being said personally, because some pretty knowledgeable people are trying to help you out.  Maybe you did get an ok deal for the book HAD YOU KNOWN it was definitely or possibly trimmed.  Having it pointed out that the deal you got was very likely done with deception,  and the frustration caused when that data point is used later (not necessarily by YOU, but uninformed buyers in general) to drive down prices with dealers, isn't a personal attack or some attempt to belittle you while "propping themselves up."

Maybe your  book isn't trimmed. Maybe you should send it off to CGC and show everyone  

Edited October 11, 2019 by speedcake

[ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE]

8 minutes ago, speedcake said:

Can everyone take a couple of breaths, read what is actually being posted, and step it back a half beat or so? This thread has been a decent read, and there is now some really good opportunities for learning coming up. But if everyone gets hot and the thread gets locked, then all anyone gets out of this is hard feelings.

Orrgo is right, he didn't say he's been buying and flipping on ebay for years. That WAS Blob. Yes he assigned a value to the book, but so what? He didn't imply he was going to try and sell it. He's been pretty insistent its for his personal FF run and that he can't find early FFs for decent prices at his locals.

But @ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE you've also gotta be able to step back a sec and not take whats being said personally, because some pretty knowledgeable people are trying to help you out.  Maybe you did get an ok deal for the book HAD YOU KNOWN it was definitely or possibly trimmed.  Having it pointed out that the deal you got was very likely done with deception,  and the frustration caused when that data point is used later (not necessarily by YOU, but uninformed buyers in general) to drive down prices with dealers, isn't a personal attack or some attempt to belittle you while "propping themselves up."

Maybe your  book isn't trimmed. Maybe you should send it off to CGC and show everyone  

A sensible person. Thank you. Yes I agree there’s very knowledgeable people here and I can appreciate their viewpoint. It just came across as angry old guys telling me I’m being ripped off and am stupid for using eBay. I know that’s not maybe what they meant but it comes across that way. There’s a way to say what they’re saying without being bitter know it alls. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

18 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

A sensible person. Thank you. Yes I agree there’s very knowledgeable people here and I can appreciate their viewpoint. It just came across as angry old guys telling me I’m being ripped off and am stupid for using eBay. I know that’s not maybe what they meant but it comes across that way. There’s a way to say what they’re saying without being bitter know it alls. 

Some people don't know any better. You'll catch on quick.

[speedcake]

Ebay can be great. Is buying raw big money books (particularly golden and silver age books most prone to restoration) from unknown sellers the best idea without a whole bunch of experience and knowledge? Probably not lol.  So buy a slabbed copy.  This is a very specific and very, very small % of the ebay comic book market. No reason to toss the baby out with the bathwater.