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Available older keys "drying up" a report from NYCC
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223 posts in this topic

Just now, FlyingDonut said:

Again, what are you looking for? Low- to mid-grade Batmans are everywhere. High grade yes, but those? Those are pretty easy to find in that grade range.

They have been in the past, they seemed much more scarce this year and I noticed, and a few people were having the same feeling. This is just a sample.of NYCC 2019, wanted to know if it was an isolated event to this con, personal bias (Murphy's Law that you can't find what you have decided you want), or something wider.

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9 minutes ago, drotto said:

They have been in the past, they seemed much more scarce this year and I noticed, and a few people were having the same feeling. This is just a sample.of NYCC 2019, wanted to know if it was an isolated event to this con, personal bias (Murphy's Law that you can't find what you have decided you want), or something wider.

It may be at shows - I think that kind of material is moving to an online audience because (1) it will sell and (2) you will get your selling price. If that kind of stuff isn't available in Baltimore then we can see if it is a trend.

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23 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

It may be at shows - I think that kind of material is moving to an online audience because (1) it will sell and (2) you will get your selling price. If that kind of stuff isn't available in Baltimore then we can see if it is a trend.

It's also seems more focused on GA and earlier Silver Keys.  Like I said at the start most Bronze age was still plentiful even if there seemed to be somewhat fewer copies.  Meaning stuff every stall used to have 3 or 4 copies of (looking at you Hulk 181) they now only had 1 or 2 copies.

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1 hour ago, drotto said:

It's also seems more focused on GA and earlier Silver Keys.  Like I said at the start most Bronze age was still plentiful even if there seemed to be somewhat fewer copies.  Meaning stuff every stall used to have 3 or 4 copies of (looking at you Hulk 181) they now only had 1 or 2 copies.

That's probably a function of it being New York as well.

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14 minutes ago, mackenzie999 said:

Common selling tactic to allow yourself to be negotiated down to the actual going rate.

The funny one I saw multiple times yesterday was the sticker would say one thing and when I asked to see the book the dealer would lower the price without me even asking.  The most extreme was a booked was listed at $4500 I picked it up and instantly heard, just so you know I would let it go for $3500.

 

I know it is supposed to make you feel special or you are getting a deal, but it strikes me as funny. He is either trying to soften me up, profiling me, or just doing the price tag means nothing thing.

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3 hours ago, drotto said:

The funny one I saw multiple times yesterday was the sticker would say one thing and when I asked to see the book the dealer would lower the price without me even asking.  The most extreme was a booked was listed at $4500 I picked it up and instantly heard, just so you know I would let it go for $3500.

 

I know it is supposed to make you feel special or you are getting a deal, but it strikes me as funny. He is either trying to soften me up, profiling me, or just doing the price tag means nothing thing.

I got that from a few dealers as well.  I chalked it up to them colluding at a NYCC markup for keys and wall books that they hoped to sell for higher amounts on Saturday or as was mentioned before that they prefer to a larger negotiating margin. 

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1 hour ago, justafan said:

I got that from a few dealers as well.  I chalked it up to them colluding at a NYCC markup for keys and wall books that they hoped to sell for higher amounts on Saturday or as was mentioned before that they prefer to a larger negotiating margin. 

Almost all the books I ended up getting were either dead on, or even slightly under GPA.  It is possible.  It may also be just me, but when I am looking for keys and high value books, I do better with the dealers who concentrate on bringing a small number of high value books as opposed to the guys bringing dozens of long boxes, and then have the wall books.

Box diving can be fun, and the large stock guys are great for that, but for big books I have better luck with more focused dealers.

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1 hour ago, Buzzetta said:

I asked about a copy of ASM 31 today (1st Spider Gwen for the Noobz)

I had no idea spider gwen went back this far.  And yeah that dealer can suck it.  wtf

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Going to cons became nigh-pointless years ago. The last few I went to were illuminating. Prices were so outrageous I skipped sticker shock and went straight to laughter. I don't know who pays these prices, but it's not going to be me.

Online is also considerably tougher than it used to be, or at least more hit or miss. A day of on and off searching used to result in 3-4 nice deals, now it's nothing as often as not. The piles of keys I used to wholesale quarterly to dealers? A thing of the past, and when I do get some in they go out at retail. Selling at a discount only makes sense when sourcing is easy, and it's been a challenge for the last 2-3 years.

I'd say overall I make about half of what I did in my best year (probably 2015), though to be fair I knew those results were not sustainable.

 

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2 hours ago, october said:

Going to cons became nigh-pointless years ago. The last few I went to were illuminating. Prices were so outrageous I skipped sticker shock and went straight to laughter. I don't know who pays these prices, but it's not going to be me.

Online is also considerably tougher than it used to be, or at least more hit or miss. A day of on and off searching used to result in 3-4 nice deals, now it's nothing as often as not. The piles of keys I used to wholesale quarterly to dealers? A thing of the past, and when I do get some in they go out at retail. Selling at a discount only makes sense when sourcing is easy, and it's been a challenge for the last 2-3 years.

I'd say overall I make about half of what I did in my best year (probably 2015), though to be fair I knew those results were not sustainable.

 

I've never understood why anyone bought higher dollar books at cons.  The prices are thru the roof and do not come with a guarantee, like books on ebay.

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On 10/4/2019 at 2:07 PM, Robot Man said:

I’ve seen a lot of the younger flippers lose their shirts lately. I recently sold a book at a show for $1,200. To a guy who immediately put it on the bay and ended up with $925. for it. 

Between ebay and Instagram, I pay close attention to these guys. They probably figure I’m too old or stupid to do so. At best, most are making 5-10%. Many times losing money. This is bad for the hobby. They just have that quick “turn and burn” attitude.

I love a story with a happy ending! :bigsmile:

The sooner the quick flippers leave the hobby, the better.  Apart from driving up prices artificially, a lot of these monkeys can't grade a raw book to save their lives, and mislead potential customers.  They'll buy a book as a 6.5 raw, and advertise as "7.5 or better", and "would benefit from a clean and press," whether it's true or not.

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I went to NYCC Friday and I did not come home with one comic... but not because there were not deals to be had, but I was not really there for any books in particular..more for art.  there were deals to be had, a dealer I know well almost tempted me into a 4 figure deal because he was giving me a sweet bundle on a couple books I was looking at. A couple other guys told me the books were flying off the wall and one had to go home after Thursday and dip into his PC to restock for the weekend. The biggest issue I see is the ridiculous sticker prices that they have no intention of getting, like someone said earlier they were giving mark downs before you even did anything but ask to see a book. Personally I seem to be navigating back to shows albeit the smaller ones to buy keys, because the auctions are great but living in NJ I am now not only getting hit with buyer fees and shipping fees but sales tax everywhere.. even E BAY, That adds up .. cash is king bring a wad to a show and negotiate with it. The beauty of the show. If one booth is unreasonable move to the next one and find someone willing to work with you. (BTW a friend got a cover less x-men 1 for $100 bucks on Thursday at the show, no haggle that was the ask)

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as far as the original posters question, it certainly seems from photos of SDCC each year, and attending both torpedo and california comic con here in CA, that there are still tons of SA keys out there. i can't speak to GA since it's not my thing, but plenty of dealers have multiple AF15s, Xmen 1s, Hulk 1s, and many more in quadruplicate at these shows. so i would say that at least for SA keys, they don't seem to be drying up. if they were, i think we'd probably see prices moving up more strongly than they are on several books, like AF15 and Hulk1, which have plateaued for a few years now, or even lost a bit. 

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I think what is more likely is collections full of keys aren’t being offloaded to dealers by collectors who have nobody else willing to buy anymore. eBay and the various auction sites are selling countless keys every single day. They don’t need to pass them off to a traveling comics dealer for pennies on the dollar because they saw an ad on Craigslist. You can still get the keys, cheaper than the dealer was going to sell it to you for, directly from the guy who decided to sell it to you instead of the dealer. Sucks for comics dealers, just fine for everyone else.

 

i also think fewer and fewer collections are permanent private collections. Everyone’s looking to upgrade their copy, or ditch it for a different key later. Or, for some reason, sell it because of a financial emergency, not that I’ve ever understood owning a bunch of five figure price tag comics when you don’t have the cash/credit for an unexpected car repair or trip to the dentist.

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On 10/4/2019 at 11:19 AM, drotto said:

I am very upfront and honest with dealers, with things like GPA and Ebay, it is very easy on "common" keys to find the current prices very quickly as well as trends.  I know the dealers are in the same general marketplace, and often deal with similar price constraints to collectors. If a dealer is at or near GPA, we can talk. I know they need to make some money. When I see people offering a book 10%, 20%, or more over the going price (regardless of who you are), it is very hard to even start talking about a deal.  It is not worth my time, and I try hard to avoid impulse buys, and convention premiums.

Trust me you start quoting GPA and Overstreet that just sends sellers in a  tizzy.

So dont do that, please.

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