Available older keys "drying up" a report from NYCC
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3 hours ago, DanCooper said:

Another "lesson" sellers should follow is never underestimate a potential customer because of age.

Here's another, similar story. When I was around twelve myself (in 1977), a kid broke into my bedroom and stole some comics. He was caught but not before he'd sold most of them. Thanks to my carefully kept inventory, his parent's insurance company paid me around $400 as compensation for the missing comics. I took that money and hopped on a bus to Palo Alto to a store called (I think) Comics and Comix. Inside, they had a copy of Frazetta's first comic, Thun'Da #1. I bought it for $375. Not a very good buy in retrospect but I was very proud of it at the time. If I recall, the condition wasn't great, VF at best, more likely F.

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5 hours ago, DanCooper said:

Very sound advice, Bob.

Another "lesson" sellers should follow is never underestimate a potential customer because of age.

Paul Howley tells the following story, from his wonderful blog, on an experience from the early days of Sparkle City:

"A very young boy, perhaps 12 years old, came up to my display and pointed to a copy of “Fantastic Four” #1 from 1961, and asked “How much is that comic book”. I didn’t take his inquiry very seriously, and I replied “ Oh, that’s a lot of money”. The young boy then said, “ Well, how much?” I said, “It’s $695.00.” He replied “Oh. Do you have a cheaper copy?” I showed him a copy that was priced at $295.00. To my surprise, he said, “I’ll take this one. Do you have issues #2 through #150?” Within ten minutes this pre-teen spent over $1200.00 and paid in cash! After he had completed this transaction I learned that he had just sold his horse and his parents allowed him to spend the proceeds on his new hobby of collecting comic books. I learned at that moment to take all customers seriously, regardless of my first impression of them."

Bar mitzvah and communion money appears st 13. Could be thousands.

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On 10/4/2019 at 11:57 PM, Buzzetta said:

Why would I ever sell my books to a dealer? 

I've gotten good prices on a book that a dealer knew was going to get hot before the market does.

I've also gotten good prices on books that the market could give two chits about, but a dealer had a customer who specifically was looking for that book.

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On 10/7/2019 at 9:55 PM, justafan said:

Absolutely negotiate! Always negotiate. Always BE negotiating. Negotiate with your body language even before you get to the booth.  Negotiate with your stare as you get the dealer's attention.  Negotiate even as you're making small talk warming up to negotiate.  Negotiate hard on the price, negotiate on the payment method, negotiate on a trade in, negotiate on any store credit, negotiate on the fees, negotiate on what drinks you may have to buy the dealer later to close the deal.  Just whatever you do, don't be THAT guy that uses the pathetic "please it's for my personal collection cut me a deal" tactic.

Ya know it's weird... I never really negotiate with the good sellers at shows. I just pick out what I want and they always give me a discount. The good one's are NEVER desperate to sell stuff. They can only do what they can do. And they're always good to me. And that makes me go back.

Back when I would set up and sell at smaller shows, it was the guys who used 'body language' or whatever or what I called 'had attitude' that I didn't care to sell to. You want my KEY for YOUR price? Ha ha ha. You must think it's a small world. That book will sell regardless - if not at the show - at another show - online - whatever. I don't need a deal that's BAD for me. 

The BOOK has the power in this equation, not your dollar.

Edited by Chuck Gower

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On 10/8/2019 at 11:17 AM, Hamlet said:

I think people have gotten way too focused on keys currently, especially at conventions where everyone has the keys priced at FMV at the minimum.  Conventions are for buying cheap books that don't make sense to buy when you have to pay for shipping, IMO.  The keys are always available online.  You just have to pay the money.

I've always enjoyed hunting through the bargain bins and finding cool books that no one is currently interested in at the moment.  I have varied enough collecting interests that there is almost always something neat I can find for almost no money.  I'm generally not all that picky on condition if the price is right.

At the local convention I just went to, I found some real nice DC SA books.  Some examples--

Flash 167 in Fine for $5.40

Flash 183 in F/VF for $5.40

Superboy 131 in VF for $5.40

Superboy 139 in VF ( oops, much lower, didn't see the popped staple :) ) for $5.40

Tomahawk 98 in F/VF for $5.40

I also found-

TTA 93 in G/VG for $25 ( seems reasonably priced to me )

A high grade Thor 339 for $3

Some mid-grade Conans for a few bucks each

A high grade ASM 220 for $4 

The beauty of collecting what is currently cold is that occasionally cold books develop heat.  Stuff like FF 67, Thor 165, Marvel Premiere 1, Thor 337, ASM 316, and Astonishing Tales 25 are all books that I bought really cheaply 5-10 years back because no one was all that interested in them at the time that I have recently sold for many multiples of what I bought them for.  Now those sales are funding my current collecting.  In 5-10 years, I imagine that some of the stuff I am buying today will be a little hotter than it is currently.  Even if it isn't, I'm getting pretty neat books for almost nothing.

I was at a small show in Northern Virginia a few weeks ago and bought all kinds of beat up readers for $1 of cheap early silver age DC's and early bronze DC and Marvel's (and Archie's)... it was awesome. I'm all about readers now.

I still buy my Atlas Humor/Romance and various GA Archie's in the $25-$100 range but... really enjoying my comics I can read.

Edited by Chuck Gower

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20 hours ago, the blob said:

Those books were only 24 years old then. Like running into a 9.8 from 1995 in the wild that was not bagged and boarded.

Well... big difference in the way books were handled early 60's vs 1995....

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2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Ya know it's weird... I never really negotiate with the good sellers at shows. I just pick out what I want and they always give me a discount. The good one's are NEVER desperate to sell stuff. They can only do what they can do. And they're always good to me. And that makes me go back.

Back when I would set up and sell at smaller shows, it was the guys who used 'body language' or whatever or what I called 'had attitude' that I didn't care to sell to. You want my KEY for YOUR price? Ha ha ha. You must think it's a small world. That book will sell regardless - if not at the show - at another show - online - whatever. I don't need a deal that's BAD for me. 

The BOOK has the power in this equation, not your dollar.

As a seller yourself, you know the importance of repeat customers. So going back to the same people repeatedly will allow better pricing on their side because of long term returns. Cracking the ice on a first sale is a different story however because I personally feel it gives you a gauge for future interactions, or lack thereof.

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On 10/4/2019 at 11:57 PM, Buzzetta said:

Why would I ever sell my books to a dealer?  Unless the dealer is going to give me 90% of the value I am going to send those books to auction at CLink, CConnect, Heritage or MCS. 

Because if you're willing to sell them by consignment to a top quality dealer at fixed prices, over a longer period of time than it takes to auction them off, your comics will often realize higher prices overall.

Edited by namisgr

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4 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Well... big difference in the way books were handled early 60's vs 1995....

I run into plenty of mid 90s books that don't have bags or boards sitting in boxes that might be 9.8s. If someone bought the ff 5, read it once, tucked it away in a box, why not? There are 9.8s and 9.6ses from 1962. Not many, but they exist.

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1 hour ago, namisgr said:

Because if you're willing to sell them by consignment to a top quality dealer at fixed prices, over a longer period of time than it takes to auction them off, your comics will often realize higher prices overall.

Also, on a big $15k type book maybe a dealer is fine clearing 10-15%.maybe less if they have a sure or cash sale.  Bob sells that via his website he maybe pays CC fees. You sell it on clink you pay all sorts of fees. You may net as much from a dealer willing to pay 85-90% of FMV.  (I'm just saying Bob because I think he says his margin % is not big on high end stuff)

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4 minutes ago, the blob said:

Also, on a big $15k type book maybe a dealer is fine clearing 10-15%.maybe less if they have a sure or cash sale.  Bob sells that via his website he maybe pays CC fees. You sell it on clink you pay all sorts of fees. You may net as much from a dealer willing to pay 85-90% of FMV.  (I'm just saying Bob because I think he says his margin % is not big on high end stuff)

My consignment fee on $10K+ sales is 8.75%,  I don't charge sellers or buyers CC/paypal fees.  

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Slightly off topic but I do haggle at shops and cons slightly (I’m 42) I find that for r what I’m Looking for shops and cons can’t really compare to eBay. I go to a physical place , they don’t have what I’m looking for (mid grade Kirby FF) so I go online and get it at various prices. Or conversely they DO have what I want but they have one copy and I can still get it cheaper on eBay. I’m never looking for high high grade cgc graded, so maybe that’s a different market. 
 

how do dealers even compete with eBay? I honestly would LOVE to go into my LCS but I’m just throwing away money when I do. 

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33 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

Slightly off topic but I do haggle at shops and cons slightly (I’m 42) I find that for r what I’m Looking for shops and cons can’t really compare to eBay. I go to a physical place , they don’t have what I’m looking for (mid grade Kirby FF) so I go online and get it at various prices. Or conversely they DO have what I want but they have one copy and I can still get it cheaper on eBay. I’m never looking for high high grade cgc graded, so maybe that’s a different market. 
 

how do dealers even compete with eBay? I honestly would LOVE to go into my LCS but I’m just throwing away money when I do. 

No offense but "Ebay" is a sales platform with a bunch of sellers.  This is the same issue I have with "Last GPA sale was $xxxx".   If you told me I went to Ebay and "Ebay Seller blah blah blah" generally has what I'm looking for and is a consistent grader then I get a more realistic pricing model to compete against.  Same goes with last GPA price.  If you can bring up a seller who has it a lot cheaper and the copies are similar in eye appeal then maybe that is the person to buy it from.  However,  if there is no seller out there at that price maybe the last buyer got a good deal.  

I'll put my raw grading up against "ebay sellers" all day long.  However,  I cannot match ebay sellers on pricing because frankly I have no idea of the financial motivation those sellers are in to move raw books.

My experience with selling on ebay raw was a waste of time.  Everyone assumes you can't grade.

Edited by blazingbob

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27 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

how do dealers even compete with eBay?

Reputation...I’ve been burned a few times on Ebay and while the return policy is great, it’s just not worth the time and effort to risk it(at least for me). 

I also prefer the flexibility offered by dealers like trades and time payments. 

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56 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

My consignment fee on $10K+ sales is 8.75%,  I don't charge sellers or buyers CC/paypal fees.  

Right. I think my point is whether you (or similarly situated dealers who deal in "good stuff") are buying outright or selling via consignment, the net the owner gets on really good stuff make you very competitive vs. the owner just plopping it on c-link.

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I’ve bought all kinds of raw silver age on eBay. Just bought Bronze Age marvel two in one #1-100. That’s my issue, I live in LA and I couldn’t walk into any comic shop or con and get 100 issues of a full run, good price or no, most places just don’t have many back issues. 
 

granted some of the places I’ve bought from are actual stores on eBay, they are like in the middle of the country. 
 

my point is I could go to a con and ask if they have FF 19-45 for like under 35/40 bucks a pop and they wouldn’t have it or they would but it would be priced a lot higher. I can go on eBay and get exactly what I’m looking for at a reasonable price. You even find deals. I got an FF #3 grade 5-6 for $350. There’s no way a shop would let that go at that price. 
 

I would love to support dealers but they don’t have the issue availability  nor the right price, 

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46 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

Slightly off topic but I do haggle at shops and cons slightly (I’m 42) I find that for r what I’m Looking for shops and cons can’t really compare to eBay. I go to a physical place , they don’t have what I’m looking for (mid grade Kirby FF) so I go online and get it at various prices. Or conversely they DO have what I want but they have one copy and I can still get it cheaper on eBay. I’m never looking for high high grade cgc graded, so maybe that’s a different market. 
 

how do dealers even compete with eBay? I honestly would LOVE to go into my LCS but I’m just throwing away money when I do. 

Well, many dealers are on ebay too. so that's how they compete? And folks are willing to pay a premium if they feel comfortable getting what they have purchased rather than hoping grading is up to snuff.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

I’ve bought all kinds of raw silver age on eBay. Just bought Bronze Age marvel two in one #1-100. That’s my issue, I live in LA and I couldn’t walk into any comic shop or con and get 100 issues of a full run, good price or no, most places just don’t have many back issues. 
 

granted some of the places I’ve bought from are actual stores on eBay, they are like in the middle of the country. 
 

my point is I could go to a con and ask if they have FF 19-45 for like under 35/40 bucks a pop and they wouldn’t have it or they would but it would be priced a lot higher. I can go on eBay and get exactly what I’m looking for at a reasonable price. You even find deals. I got an FF #3 grade 5-6 for $350. There’s no way a shop would let that go at that price. 
 

I would love to support dealers but they don’t have the issue availability  nor the right price, 

For years I have been buying books from shops and shows and selling them for more on ebay. ebay is not necessarily any cheaper, particularly after you pay for shipping. also, please post that FF 3 you got for $350. Books like that usually don't fall through the cracks on ebay if they are properly graded.

 

Edited by the blob

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20 minutes ago, ORRGO THE UNCONQUERABLE said:

I’ve bought all kinds of raw silver age on eBay. Just bought Bronze Age marvel two in one #1-100. That’s my issue, I live in LA and I couldn’t walk into any comic shop or con and get 100 issues of a full run, good price or no, most places just don’t have many back issues. 
 

granted some of the places I’ve bought from are actual stores on eBay, they are like in the middle of the country. 
 

my point is I could go to a con and ask if they have FF 19-45 for like under 35/40 bucks a pop and they wouldn’t have it or they would but it would be priced a lot higher. I can go on eBay and get exactly what I’m looking for at a reasonable price. You even find deals. I got an FF #3 grade 5-6 for $350. There’s no way a shop would let that go at that price. 
 

I would love to support dealers but they don’t have the issue availability  nor the right price, 

Using your example of FF #19-45 what grade expectations are you looking for at $30-40 bucks a book?

FF #19 hot book,  FF #25, 26 Battle issues,  36 is a key,  39 Dr. Doom cover, 45 is a key.

I'm guessing GD's, maybe VG.  

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4 hours ago, the blob said:

Well, many dealers are on ebay too. so that's how they compete? And folks are willing to pay a premium if they feel comfortable getting what they have purchased rather than hoping grading is up to snuff.

 

 

True dat. I have found that ebay just isn't what it used to be. I collect GA so my options are a lot more limited. It seems like about every 3rd or 4th buy has to go back and I'm not even a high grade guy. One or two pictures, "not a professional grader" and no returns means trouble. Just not willing to gamble and out any more. I'm not just talking about schmoo sellers either. There are several well known dealers that are very misleading in their listings.

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