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JOKER: THE MOVIE spoilers thread (anything goes)
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Started by Bosco685,

243 posts in this topic

Hollywood1892

Hollywood1892

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

:eyeroll:

She was apparently stable when working for the Waynes - which is when she adopted. She worked for one of the wealthiest families in Gotham/Fake America... And it's unthinkable to you that she could have adopted if she wanted to?

lol

Okay.

Are you capable of giving an inch in an open discussion?

At the end of the day our opinions are just speculation, but the fact you are so unrelenting in your opinion is divisive.

We are just having fun discussing a good movie that we all saw.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Are you capable of giving an inch in an open discussion?

At the end of the day our opinions are just speculation, but the fact you are so unrelenting in your opinion is divisive.

We are just having fun discussing a good movie that we all saw.

Your question makes no sense.

My speculation is no more "divisive" than anyone else's (i.e. also makes no sense).

You're free to avoid the discussion if you're not "having fun".

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zhamlau

zhamlau

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

:eyeroll:

She was apparently stable when working for the Waynes - which is when she adopted. She worked for one of the wealthiest families in Gotham/Fake America... And it's unthinkable to you that she could have adopted if she wanted to?

lol

Okay.

That’s not a good argument, but again it’s all fiction. I’m just basing my view on how it would normally work (or not work).

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Ken Aldred

Ken Aldred

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/7/2019 at 12:16 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

 

Things I didn't like:

  • The songs. The movie music itself was perfect.

 

The movie music was fine, apart from one extremely poor choice - from a British perspective, anyway.

The appearance of one song in particular really irritated me; Rock and Roll Part 2 by Gary Glitter.

In the UK he's absolutely despised; a quick Google will explain why.

It's about time his music was globally blacklisted.

Edited by Ken Aldred
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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

Posted
Posted

Just saw this thing. I dug it. Martin Scorsese's The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver meets Joker story sums it up for me.. The last fifteen minutes or so when Arthur Fleck goes full Joker up to the end was pretty excellent. I felt the the majority of the movie leading up to that was a bit slow at times even though things definitely happen, maybe I could've used one less scene of Arthur writhing in slow motion.

I don't know much about the Gary Glitter thing but I kind of loved Joker dancing on the stairs to Rock and Roll Part 2. I felt like in that one scene, we were finally in Arthur Curry's mind.

And contrary to what Todd Philips says, Joker was definitely the hero in this movie. Everyone he killed (except for that one tragic scene) had it coming, in the context of the movie.

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

:eyeroll:

Joker is not a hero.

When I say "hero", it's in extreme broad terms. Call it anti-hero or sympathetic protagonist, or whatever. In the context of the movie, Arthur Fleck is the protagonist and Gotham City is the antagonist.

Heck, even Batman's dad comes off looking worse than Joker.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

Posted
Posted
Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

When I say "hero", it's in extreme broad terms. Call it anti-hero or sympathetic protagonist, or whatever. In the context of the movie, Arthur Fleck is the protagonist and Gotham City is the antagonist.

That's not how it works. Cold-blooded murderers are not heroes or protagonists.

Joker is simply the central figure of the movie. Makes sense since, y'know, Joker is the title of the movie...

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

That's not how it works. Cold-blooded murderers are not heroes or protagonists.

Joker is simply the central figure of the movie. Makes sense since, y'know, Joker is the title of the movie...

Erhm, according to literature, the protagonist of a story isn't excusively a wholesome law abiding person. The protagonist of a story is the main leading character. That'd be Joker. The antagonist is the character or thing that gets in the way of the protagonist's goal. Arthur Curry wants to be a clown, whether at kid's parties or on stage. Gotham City and everyone in Arthur's life is preventing him from doing that.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Erhm, according to literature, the protagonist of a story isn't excusively a wholesome law abiding person. The protagonist of a story is the main leading character. That'd be Joker. The antagonist is the character or thing that gets in the way of the protagonist's goal. Arthur Curry wants to be a clown, whether at kid's parties or on stage. Gotham City and everyone in Arthur's life is preventing him from doing that.

Okay, he's still not a hero in any sense of the word. Don't use them inclusively if they don't both apply.

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Okay, he's still not a hero in any sense of the word. Don't use them inclusively if they don't both apply.

Oh, but he is a "hero", in a sense, in Joker. At the film's beginning, Arthur Fleck is a victim of the violence and callousness of Gotham City. Whether it's his social worker psychologist, random guys on a subway, Thomas Wayne(who possibly abandoned him?), his mother (who doesn't think he's funny), his co-workers (except for Gaggy, the only guy who is nice to him), or talk show host Murray Franklin, in the context of the movie, they all, in one way or another, bully or belittle poor Arthur.

In the movie's class warfare angle, does the movie take sides? Kind of. The yuppies on the Subway are jerks (who deserve to get their butts kicked) and Thomas Wayne is portrayed as an uppity callous jerk who possibly abandoned Arthur and his mother (the photo of Arthur's mother with the initials T.W. on the back make me think she was telling the truth). The movie kind of takes the side of the lower class.

As we follow Arthur on his hero's journey, he vanquishes these bullies and belittlers (yes, killing his mother was tragic, but at the same time, she didn't believe in his "talent") until he ascends to near god-like status to the working class of Gotham City, not unlike Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver.

In the crazy screwed up Gotham City of this movie, Joker is the hero.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

Posted
Posted
Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

Oh, but he is a "hero", in a sense, in Joker. At the film's beginning, Arthur Fleck is a victim of the violence and callousness of Gotham City. Whether it's his social worker psychologist, random guys on a subway, Thomas Wayne(who possibly abandoned him?), his mother (who doesn't think he's funny), his co-workers (except for Gaggy, the only guy who is nice to him), or talk show host Murray Franklin, in the context of the movie, they all, in one way or another, bully or belittle poor Arthur.

In the movie's class warfare angle, does the movie take sides? Kind of. The yuppies on the Subway are jerks (who deserve to get their butts kicked) and Thomas Wayne is portrayed as an uppity callous jerk who possibly abandoned Arthur and his mother (the photo of Arthur's mother with the initials T.W. on the back make me think she was telling the truth). The movie kind of takes the side of the lower class.

As we follow Arthur on his hero's journey, he vanquishes these bullies and belittlers (yes, killing his mother was tragic, but at the same time, she didn't believe in his "talent") until he ascends to near god-like status to the working class of Gotham City, not unlike Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver.

In the crazy screwed up Gotham City of this movie, Joker is the hero.

No, he isn't. Joker isn't a hero. Murderers aren't heroes. Just because a villain has a fleshed-out backstory does not make them a hero.

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