JOKER: THE MOVIE spoilers thread (anything goes) 1 1

[Bosco685]

And it was interesting that there was no DC COMICS logo or intro credits theme displayed throughout the entirety of the film. Anyone notice that?

Just the 70's WB film logo at the beginning. And the scenes in the end which were clearly tied to Bruce Wayne's origin - including the theater placard and posters. Which was a really nice touch to circle back to its foundations who these characters truly were.

[Skylath]

Watched it earlier this morning and am still trying to figure out whether I think this film is pure genius or just half baked. Gonna have to rewatch it a couple of times when it comes out on DVD.

Like many though, I really enjoyed the Joker being dragged out of the police car in an almost revered way and him dancing on the hood of the car (kind of reminded me in Pink Floyd's the Wall), alongside at the end when he shoots Murray. That was probably the most emotional point of the film, I felt, especially when he makes the "joke" of crossing a mentally ill loner with a late night host and such.

Also when he times out in the refrigerator after being at the hospital was also kind of another emotional chord that really spoke out alongside his interactions with Sophie being a delusion.

 

Probably the only constant complaint that I felt was that Arthur's laugh was kind of jarring and just felt forced into the story. Kind of made it a nuisance to watch the movie after a bit.

 

[Bosco685]

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

Quote

Following a pair of narrative fakeouts earlier in the film, Arthur Fleck posed the possibility of Joker's entire narrative being a made up story in his head. Much like his happy interaction with Murray Franklin and finding a girlfriend in his neighbor, the movie is posed as one big joke when Arthur tells his counselor, "You wouldn't get it."

 

ComicBook.com asked director Todd Phillips if the movie's overall narrative was real in that world's canon or if Arthur Fleck made the whole thing up:

 

"When Scott Silver and I sat down to write it, we knew enough about the comics," Phillips said. "I read comics when I was a kid, we knew he didn't have an origin story. We also, I don't want to say whether it's real or not because I think part of the fun, I've shown it to many, many different people and they all have a different reaction. Some of them say, 'Oh I get it, I mean the last line in the movie, you wouldn't get it, to a joke he was telling. Well is the joke the movie? Is the joke the thing? Or is the thing about the --' The idea is you don't like to answer those questions, because its nice to see the different things people take away from it."

 

So, Phillips isn't ready to disclose whether or not the movie's story is real, but it seems he did intentionally created that discussion.

 

"That was the idea, the idea that all of 'My past is multiple,'" Philips said. "I like to think of my past as multiple choice, it's a little bit of like, 'Wait, did that happen? Did this?' It's really kind of fun when you make a movie with an unreliable narrator. There is no greater unreliable narrator than Joker. He's an unreliable narrator and he's Joker, so it's sort of like a double whammy, and so I think that lends to people's reaction to the movie and I like that people don't really know what happened. There are certain things if you see it again, on a second viewing, you'll notice about that white room at the end that kind of picks up at the beginning, and you go, 'Oh, wait a minute, that's interesting.' Its kind of one of those."

 

[Xenosmilus]

The more I think of it, I think I prefer Heath Ledger's Joker characture more ( "prefer" is not to be confused with performance).  My break down is as follows:

Joaquin Phoenix Joker = Society made him

Heath Ledger Joker (as quoted by Alfred) = Some men just want to watch the world burn!

Edited October 5, 2019 by Xenosmilus

[Bosco685]

Just now, Xenosmilus said:

The more I think of it, I think I prefer Heath Ledger's Joker more ( "prefer" is not to be confused with performance).  My break down is as follows:

Joaquin Phoenix Joker = Society made him

Heath Ledger Joker (as quoted by Alfred) = Some men just want to see the world burn!

But near the end of the film, even Arthur notes to his mother there had never been anything wrong with him. He was just not recognizing he was 'himself' all along and ignored this.

To me, that also means 'some men just want to see the world burn'. But I do get your point. 

[Xenosmilus]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

But near the end of the film, even Arthur notes to his mother there had never been anything wrong with him. He was just not recognizing he was 'himself' all along and ignored this.

To me, that also means 'some men just want to see the world burn'. But I do get your point. 

Maybe but if true wouldn't he have kill the little guy (I forget his name) too to be completely moral less? 

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

Maybe but if true wouldn't he have kill the little guy (I forget his name) too to be completely moral less? 

I think it was his only nod to someone that had been kind to him all the way through his life. And even more after he found out his mother had allowed a boyfriend to abuse him like that.

[Xenosmilus]

11 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I think it was his only nod to someone that had been kind to him all the way through his life. And even more after he found out his mother had allowed a boyfriend to abuse him like that.

My point exactly, hence he did have "some morals"/compassion" . I view Joker as completely moralless but that is just me and I am by no means a Joker expert.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Xenosmilus

[Bosco685]

9 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

My point exactly, hence he did have "some morals"/compassion" . I view Joker as completely moralless but that is just me and I am by no means a Joker expert.

Even with the Harley Quinn relationship in Batman TAS, one moment he is gentle and sweet with her acknowledging her love. Then he is trashing her for being too soft. His mind probably goes in and out as a psychopathic character.

[Xenosmilus]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Even with the Harley Quinn relationship in Batman TAS, one moment he is gentle and sweet with her acknowledging her love. Then he is trashing her for being too soft. His mind probably goes in and out as a psychopathic character.

But is this an example of morals/compassion or manipulation of an individual for his own gratification/needs? Are they mutually exclusive? 

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

But is this an example of morals/compassion or manipulation of an individual for his own gratification/needs? Are they mutually exclusive? 

Heck if we will know. 

[valiantman]

1 hour ago, Xenosmilus said:

My point exactly, hence he did have "some morals"/compassion" . I view Joker as completely moralless but that is just me and I am by no means a Joker expert.

Heath's Joker (first scene) didn't kill anyone in the bank who was innocent.

[Xenosmilus]

Just now, valiantman said:

Heath's Joker (first scene) didn't kill anyone in the bank who was innocent.

It wasn't part of his plan. He was playing the long game.

[ADAMANTIUM]

I loved how the Joker: was asked by the cops if the laughing illness was a "thing" and he said, "I'm a clown what do you think?" and then abruptly walked into the glass door  

Kind of made me chuckle

[Hollywood1892]

Opinions on Batman who laughs...will he trump the Joker in villainy?

[valiantman]

5 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Opinions on Batman who laughs...will he trump the Joker in villainy?

I'm only vaguely aware of Batman who Laughs, and I'm an active comic guy, so no, there's no way he'll trump Joker in anything, if you're asking about overall (general) recognition across Batman mythology. Harley Quinn is still a minor Batman-adjacent character (or completely unknown) to the general public.

[valiantman]

20 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

It wasn't part of his plan. He was playing the long game.

Completely moral-less has no long game which spares the innocent.