Kirkman says Liefeld a modern day Kirby. 0

[JohnFranklin]

As a "still learning" recreational sequential artist I am not fond of the man's art, however he is doing something I am not, having his work published.  One thing of note for me is that a colleague of mine who is not a reader of comics at all is familiar with RL's art and the criticism which follows it.  Regardless, to imply RL is on some level positivly compared to Kirby is a real, real stretch.  

[Azkaban]

Kirkman that's embarrassing  

[CartoonFanboy]

Though the comment that Liefeld is a modern day Jack Kirby is patently absurd, it does not surprise me that Kirkman said it. He's an unabashed fanboy of the Image founders, especially Liefeld. He collects Original Art by Liefeld and even got the man folded back in to the Image family. The comparison is ridiculous of course, but if anyone was going to make it, Kirkman would be the guy.

[WoWitHurts]

3 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

I was talking about this at a local show this weekend. I came across a poster for X-Force in a recent comic collection and the art looked great (not to be confused with great art). It made me instantly think about when I was younger and how exciting comics were at that time. Are there better artists - YES. Are there more important ones - YES but at the time, many (not all of you) but many here ate it up and loved it. 

I was one of them and I don't see what's wrong with that.

 He shouldn't be the punching bag that he is. There are far more creators deserving of that mark (less talented and great DB)

 

I liked Hawk and Dove. Never really read the New Mutants. He just left the rails when he went to help form Image. No editorial control destroyed him IMO.

[Aweandlorder]

1 hour ago, JohnFranklin said:

As a "still learning" recreational sequential artist I am not fond of the man's art, however he is doing something I am not, having his work published.  One thing of note for me is that a colleague of mine who is not a reader of comics at all is familiar with RL's art and the criticism which follows it.  Regardless, to imply RL is on some level positivly compared to Kirby is a real, real stretch.  

Nailed it.. 

liefeld is certainly right there between the “guy getting his work published” and Kirby 

[kav]

1 hour ago, JohnFranklin said:

As a "still learning" recreational sequential artist I am not fond of the man's art, however he is doing something I am not, having his work published.  One thing of note for me is that a colleague of mine who is not a reader of comics at all is familiar with RL's art and the criticism which follows it.  Regardless, to imply RL is on some level positivly compared to Kirby is a real, real stretch.  

This is what enrages me about Liefeld-there are tons of talented artists that blow him entirely out of the water and will never see a single thing published.  This was also true at the time he was drawing for Marvel in the 90s.  

[kav]

Ps I forget who it was someone went to Liefeld's house and there was not a single book in his entire house.  Comics only.  No anatomy books, no fiction, no history of comics-nothin.

From this void he taps his creative 'talents'.

[Aweandlorder]

6 minutes ago, kav said:

Ps I forget who it was someone went to Liefeld's house and there was not a single book in his entire house.  Comics only.  No anatomy books, no fiction, no history of comics-nothin.

From this void he taps his creative 'talents'.

.... Then they went to his basement and after breaking up 15 locks to get in they found a whole batch of these sketches piled under mountains of dust

[kav]

1 minute ago, Aweandlorder said:

.... Then they went to his basement and after breaking up 15 locks to get in they found a whole batch of these sketches piled under mountains of dust

[SBRobin]

18 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

I don't like Liefeld but to be fair, his work is unique and is synonymous of early 1990s comics.  Love him or hate him he did have a huge impact on the art form.  And no, he's no Kirby.

If I were to start drawing comics for Marvel, you could also describe my art as "unique." It would be the most "unique" of any Marvel artist in history. 

I disagree he had a huge impact on the art form. An impact on the industry - yes. On the art form? No, unless he showed artists what not to do. 

 

5 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

 He shouldn't be the punching bag that he is. There are far more creators deserving of that mark (less talented and great DB)

 

He absolutely should be, for the simple fact that he has had THIRTY YEARS to grow and develop as an artist and he still posts garbage. He gets work now because his name carries weight, not his art. Look at the awful art in Major X and the Action Comics variants from this year. He STILL has not learned perspective. How is it possible to get worse as an artist in thirty years? And he deserves to be crapped on more than ever for the way he acts on Twitter and his shady business tactics. Remember the Spider-Man/DeadPool 47 fit he threw? That was all because he wasn't hoarding 500 copies of that issue in his closet. All he cares about is money. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by SBRobin

[kav]

3 minutes ago, SBRobin said:

If I were to start drawing comics for Marvel, you could also describe my art as "unique." It would be the most "unique" of any Marvel artist in history. 

 

I disagree he had a huge impact on the art form. An impact on the industry - yes. On the art form? No, unless he showed artists what not to do. 

Many copied Kirby and Adams-dont know anyone of note that copied Liefeld.  Am I wrong or was Liefeld trying to draw like Jim Lee?

[Ken Aldred]

6 minutes ago, kav said:

Many copied Kirby and Adams-dont know anyone of note that copied Liefeld.  Am I wrong or was Liefeld trying to draw like Jim Lee?

Arthur Adams initiated the style with elongated figurework in his early comics such as Longshot.

Except, he's really good, and continued to develop and improve his art.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Ken Aldred

[SBRobin]

1 hour ago, kav said:

This is what enrages me about Liefeld-there are tons of talented artists that blow him entirely out of the water and will never see a single thing published.  This was also true at the time he was drawing for Marvel in the 90s.  

Truer words. Look at the /r/comics subreddit and all of the original art that people are posting there. Much of that stuff is from kids who aren't even out of college yet, and it blows away anything Liefeld has ever done. None of those kids will ever be published, even though they deserve to be. I had dreams of being a comic book artist in my youth and the first thing I learned from all of my courses was that you learn general form and perspective first. That is why those "how-to" guides always start out with a few connected circles and end with something amazing. I am convinced Liefeld starts out just drawing hundreds lines everywhere and then goes back and tries to connect everything. I was the biggest Liefeld fanboy growing up and still have about 100 of his books in my collection, and somehow never realized how terrible they all are until I was an adult.

 

I'm sorry, I have to log out now and stay off CGC for at least a week or I will spend hours just railing on the guy in this thread. Maybe when I log back in Liefeld will have delivered on his six year old Brigade Kickstarter 

[Aweandlorder]

For all of those who cares about what happened in the 90s and with Liefeld in particular:

http://geniusboyfiremelon.blogspot.com/2008/01/dont-you-know-its-all-art-adamss-fault.html

[kav]

1 minute ago, SBRobin said:

Truer words. Look at the /r/comics subreddit and all of the original art that people are posting there. Much of that stuff is from kids who aren't even out of college yet, and it blows away anything Liefeld has ever done. None of those kids will ever be published, even though they deserve to be. I had dreams of being a comic book artist in my youth and the first thing I learned from all of my courses was that you learn general form and perspective first. That is why those "how-to" guides always start out with a few connected circles and end with something amazing. I am convinced Liefeld starts out just drawing hundreds lines everywhere and then goes back and tries to connect everything. I was the biggest Liefeld fanboy growing up and still have about 100 of his books in my collection, and somehow never realized how terrible they all are until I was an adult.

 

I'm sorry, I have to log out now and stay off CGC for at least a week or I will spend hours just railing on the guy in this thread. Maybe when I log back in Liefeld will have delivered on his six year old Brigade Kickstarter 

Luckily for me art school was mostly pointless and exactly as depicted in the movie 'Art School Confidential', however I did have ONE good class and one good teacher-it was a design class.  Knowing where to put things to create a solid overall design is imperative, and extremely rare among professional comic artists.  Mostly they just throw a wad of characters on a cover eg Jim Lee.  Also lucky for me was realizing how incredibly stupid art school was and moving clear across campus to study biology and chemistry.

[JohnFranklin]

6 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

I was talking about this at a local show this weekend. I came across a poster for X-Force in a recent comic collection and the art looked great (not to be confused with great art). It made me instantly think about when I was younger and how exciting comics were at that time. Are there better artists - YES. Are there more important ones - YES but at the time, many (not all of you) but many here ate it up and loved it. 

I was one of them and I don't see what's wrong with that.

 He shouldn't be the punching bag that he is. There are far more creators deserving of that mark (less talented and great DB)

 

I am just curious, silver age forward, what other artists in your opinion do you feel one could attribute the "punching bag" descriptor too?  I can think of two, likely Frank Robbins and maybe the early Luke Cage artist whose name escapes me at the moment.  But again, the upshot for me is the work was being published.  But then again I am not a fan of all of Salvador Dali's or Picasso's work either.

Edited October 14, 2019 by JohnFranklin

[kav]

17 minutes ago, JohnFranklin said:

I am just curious, silver age forward, what other artists in your opinion do you feel one could attribute the "punching bag" descriptor too?  I can think of two, likely Frank Robbins and maybe the early Luke Cage artist whose name escapes me at the moment.  But again, the upshot for me is the work was being published.  But then again I am not a fan of all of Salvador Dali's or Picasso's work either.

Remember Picasso could draw realistic when he wanted to.  He chose another way of expressing himself but unlike Liefeld, he could draw:
https://www.google.com/search?q=picasso+early+drawings&rlz=1CASUUV_enUS769US769&sxsrf=ACYBGNTWCCry5QGUuUCSUm3WEPzyx6zN-w:1571096893563&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBk_6B-JzlAhXECTQIHdqkAn8Q_AUIEigB&biw=1324&bih=632

[catman76]

What's with this crazy hate for Liefeld here? You don't like his art? Great, then don't look at it. I don't like his work personally at all, so I don't look at it and I concentrate on stuff I do like. But then I love Rory Hayes and love tons of outsider art so what do I know?

[kav]

1 minute ago, catman76 said:

What's with this crazy hate for Liefeld here? You don't like his art? Great, then don't look at it. I don't like his work personally at all, so I don't look at it and I concentrate on stuff I do like. But then I love Rory Hayes and love tons of outsider art so what do I know?

Well personally I dont hate Liefeld-by all accounts he is a very nice guy.  I find his art ludicrous, and his success baffling, but this thread was about excoriating Kirkman for claiming he's a Kirby.

[bababooey]

17 minutes ago, JohnFranklin said:

I am just curious, silver age forward, what other artists in your opinion do you feel one could attribute the "punching bag" descriptor too?  I can think of two, likely Frank Robbins and maybe the early Luke Cage artist whose name escapes me at the moment.  But again, the upshot for me is the work was being published.  But then again I am not a fan of all of Salvador Dali's or Picasso's work either.

Probably Lee Elias, his art looked similar to Robbins stuff.