Scorsese slams MCU 0

[Bosco685]

50 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Going back to the Anthony Mackie one more time, I don't mean to say that the Falcon didn't honestly NOT like Man of Steel because I have to agree with him, it's not a good movie and a lot of people feel the same way (there's a reason Henry Cavill and Zach Snyder are out of DC moviemaking). But the interviewer asked him plain and simple, DC or Marvel? What response was to be expected? You ask Anthony Mackie a question and he will give his honest unadulterated answer every time. I bet Mackie will tell you he liked Wonder Woman. God bless, Sam Wilson.

You'd probably be able to make broad statements like that if not for Home Theater Sales figures (domestic, at least) proving this statement false. Someone spent $116.7 million on DVD and bluray media to rewatch Man of Steel outside of the theater release. 

And a 'DC or Marvel' wasn't a question where the interviewer was stating a choice meant poor standards. Mackie took it much further, and made it into a statement about Weintraub liking MOS indicates he is a poor reviewer.

[theCapraAegagrus]

2 minutes ago, BuscemasAvengers said:

So we're at the end of the originality conveyor belt?

It's felt like that for a long time. When was the last time I saw a non-comic book, non-Star Wars, movie in theaters? Godzilla in 2014? When's the last time I saw a completely original story in theaters? I have no freaking clue.

Can't remember if I saw Inception in theaters. Wish I saw Interstellar in theaters.

There probably are a few good ones out there from the last decade, but they're definitely few and far between. The 80's and 90's were the Golden Age of original movie ideas IMO.

[bane]

17 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

You'd probably be able to make broad statements like that if not for Home Theater Sales figures (domestic, at least) proving this statement false. Someone spent $116.7 million on DVD and bluray media to rewatch Man of Steel outside of the theater release. 

And a 'DC or Marvel' wasn't a question where the interviewer was stating a choice meant poor standards. Mackie took it much further, and made it into a statement about Weintraub liking MOS indicates he is a poor reviewer.

Man of Steel is still the best Superman movie I've seen. 

Christopher Reeve is still the best Superman.

[BuscemasAvengers]

26 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

It's felt like that for a long time. When was the last time I saw a non-comic book, non-Star Wars, movie in theaters? Godzilla in 2014? When's the last time I saw a completely original story in theaters? I have no freaking clue.

Can't remember if I saw Inception in theaters. Wish I saw Interstellar in theaters.

There probably are a few good ones out there from the last decade, but they're definitely few and far between. The 80's and 90's were the Golden Age of original movie ideas IMO.

Only in film? Stories continue to be told in fiction/non-fiction, many of which are revelations of someone's past buried under the rubble of history.  Those stories do sometimes make their way to film.  Science continues to reveal the intricacies of our universe, providing fertilizer for new narratives to be developed ... the conveyor belt may not be a loop ...

[theCapraAegagrus]

14 minutes ago, BuscemasAvengers said:

Only in film? Stories continue to be told in fiction/non-fiction, many of which are revelations of someone's past buried under the rubble of history.  Those stories do sometimes make their way to film.  Science continues to reveal the intricacies of our universe, providing fertilizer for new narratives to be developed ... the conveyor belt may not be a loop ...

I don't understand where you're going with this.

Original ideas on film are rare in the 21st century. It's why comic book movies are so popular. Turning static images into dynamic entertainment.

There isn't much indication that originality is circling back around soon - hence the propagation of even more comic book properties to TV and streaming services.

I, personally, am getting fatigued with the amount of comic book material - mostly because it's turning into drek money-grabs IMO. I would gladly welcome a massive wave of originality in "cinema".

[1Cool]

Sounds like sour grapes to me.  I think if he was slated to direct a couple Marvel movies next year his stance would change drastically.

[herc2000]

I can see where Martin Scorsese is coming from. 

If I think of a cinematic film, I think of such films as Lawrence of Arabia. I think all of Martin's films, and most of the best directors films, are filmed in proper locations, so everything is quite real, as it is real.

Now think about Marvel films, as much as we love them, half of it, if not more is CGI or green screen, so there's not much to say about the visuals in terms of cinematography. Most of it is just done by some person sitting behind a computer who is very good at CGI.

When do comic films ever get considered for best film, best director, best actor at the Oscars? Never, I'm hoping Joker has a chance, but again, the filming of this is all very real, most of it in locations or sets, might be a little CGI, but can't think of any of hand.

[BuscemasAvengers]

4 minutes ago, herc2000 said:

I can see where Martin Scorsese is coming from. 

If I think of a cinematic film, I think of such films as Lawrence of Arabia. I think all of Martin's films, and most of the best directors films, are filmed in proper locations, so everything is quite real, as it is real.

Now think about Marvel films, as much as we love them, half of it, if not more is CGI or green screen, so there's not much to say about the visuals in terms of cinematography. Most of it is just done by some person sitting behind a computer who is very good at CGI.

When do comic films ever get considered for best film, best director, best actor at the Oscars? Never, I'm hoping Joker has a chance, but again, the filming of this is all very real, most of it in locations or sets, might be a little CGI, but can't think of any of hand.

Perhaps this is what Scorsese needed to add to his definition of what [good] 'cinema' actually is ... a bit of the 'real' laced into the film (as opposed to CGI) ... of course, I'm sure Scorsese would greatly expand on what he believes 'good cinema' to be if he was actually asked that question. Part of the problem is that we can only speculate on what he believes 'cinema' should be because we've only been exposed to a (more-than-likely-edited) snippet of his thought process ... 

[Bosco685]

56 minutes ago, bane said:

Man of Steel is still the best Superman movie I've seen. 

Christopher Reeve is still the best Superman.

No, no. Everyone beats up on the poor MCU and only recently has its true greatness been realized. Don't distract from that message.

 

[BuscemasAvengers]

19 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I don't understand where you're going with this.

Original ideas on film are rare in the 21st century. It's why comic book movies are so popular. Turning static images into dynamic entertainment.

There isn't much indication that originality is circling back around soon - hence the propagation of even more comic book properties to TV and streaming services.

I, personally, am getting fatigued with the amount of comic book material - mostly because it's turning into drek money-grabs IMO. I would gladly welcome a massive wave of originality in "cinema".

I think I was leaning toward the optimistic view that the 'death of originality' in film may not be so, since the transition between word to imagery continues.  Is there repetition in art? No doubt! Even the 'static images' which comprise the hobby we love is guilty of resurrecting old plot lines and characters to create 'new' arcs and characters. But every once in a while, the originality of the human experience emerges.  There are stories waiting to be told via text and film.  So originality may not be something that we 'circle back to' (as in "it's time for a period of originality") ... it just arrives along the way.

[dupont2005]

2 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Thanks for that, and it's interesting to see the trend of franchise films increase over the decades.

However, I still don't think it's an indicator that the quality of movies has gone down. I think it's more an indicator of the amount of content being pushed out by both the major and independent studios. Another informative study to be done would be to see the ratio of these sequel and franchise movies to the overall quantity of movies given a theatrical release. That doesn't even count the amount of films one can see at the hundreds of film festivals that have sprung up across the country, that go straight to home video or streaming, or that you see on TV. I think the ratio might show that big budget action franchise movies still make up a minor percentage of the movies produced today.

And I don't think TV is irrelevant at all to the discussion. People in general don't care how they get their movie watching experience. A lot of people actually prefer to see movies at home. Filmmakers and production studios also don't care, in the end, how their work gets shown to the public. As long as it gets shown and they can get paid somehow.

It was only a few years ago that a relatively little 2 million dollar movie called Moonlight won Best Picture, was the hot movie to see, and made 65 million at the box office. And what was the other hot movie to see that year? La La Land, a musical, which made $450 million at the box office.

Wide release films have decreased in frequency by a huge margin over this time period. In 2006 there was 128, a decade later there as 96. Overall film releases have increased, but if it’s not wide release it’s usually straight to redbox or streaming B movie garbage. The threshold for a movie to be considered “wide release” is incredibly low. It has to be shown in 600 theaters. Southern California alone can get you there I’m pretty sure.  There is definitely a trend of mainstream movies heading this direction. Regardless if you liked the new Robocop or not I think we can all agree it was better when it was a new idea. And TV is irrelevant because we are talking about movies. Wide release theatrical movies in particular. It’s true not all low budget movies are bad and not all streaming exclusive content is bad, but the staggering majority of these movies that fall outside the wide release umbrella are forgettable at best. TV is great right now, golden age of television. Movies, not so much

 

Edited to add: the few sequels we had in the beginning were at the very start of franchises still in theaters to this day. Rocky, Rambo, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc. how many is enough? How many entries? How many years? 007 was pretty much the only long running franchise in cinema back then, and honestly, that was more than enough.

Edited October 16, 2019 by dupont2005

[theCapraAegagrus]

2 minutes ago, BuscemasAvengers said:

I think I was leaning toward the optimistic view that the 'death of originality' in film may not be so, since the transition between word to imagery continues.  Is there repetition in art? No doubt! Even the 'static images' which comprise the hobby we love is guilty of resurrecting old plot lines and characters to create 'new' arcs and characters. But every once in a while, the originality of the human experience emerges.  There are stories waiting to be told via text and film.  So originality may not be something that we 'circle back to' (as in "it's time for a period of originality") ... it just arrives along the way.

Can you support that it isn't dying, though? As Dupont has demonstrated - the amount of sequels is taking over "Hollywood".

Nothing wrong with optimism, but we have to be realistic in our assessments.

Even in comic book cinematic universes - I wanna see The Flash and/or Green Lantern Corps before I see an Aquaman sequel.

I think that an argument can be made that TV is still dominated by original shows.

[BuscemasAvengers]

2 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Can you support that it isn't dying, though? As Dupont has demonstrated - the amount of sequels is taking over "Hollywood".

Nothing wrong with optimism, but we have to be realistic in our assessments.

Even in comic book cinematic universes - I wanna see The Flash and/or Green Lantern Corps before I see an Aquaman sequel.

I think that an argument can be made that TV is still dominated by original shows.

Sequels have increased - yes.  TV seems to be the medium which is now better able to showcase originality, and those shows (Handmaid's Tale et.al) do come from some incredible original stories.

[1Cool]

36 minutes ago, BuscemasAvengers said:

Sequels have increased - yes.  TV seems to be the medium which is now better able to showcase originality, and those shows (Handmaid's Tale et.al) do come from some incredible original stories.

I'm debating cancelling my AMC theater card since I'm really having a tough time finding 3 movies a month to go to.  The summer is pretty easy to hit my 3 movies a month target but the last 2 months have been dreadful.  I find way more enjoyable shows on Netfix and Hulu then the movies being cranked out. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by 1Cool

[Bosco685]

Whoa!

I always felt most comic books films went for teaching selfless service and protection of others. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Bosco685

[bentbryan]

All this demonstrates is that you could have created some of the most iconic, beloved movies off all time and emotionally still be a jealous little beoatch. 
 

[▫️]

I lean with Scorsese on this but it’s disappointing to hear Coppola describe them as despicable. That’s of course extreme. These two are legends in their field and can express any opinion they have though. But at the end of the day, let’s not pretend that our fun capes and tights adventures are anything beyond that. 

[@therealsilvermane]

Screw Coppola. True to this particular filmmaker’s form, that comment simply served a little free publicity for a “legend” who hasn’t been truly relevant since the 70’s. Oh look, after two decades we’re once again talking about a guy who was disgruntled at George Lucas for not bringing him along for the Star Wars ride. About had it with these old geezers trying to on my comic book culture. 

[@therealsilvermane]

 

[Mr Sneeze]

I think 98% of academy members would be of a similar mind. So I would ask, how is that at all surprising and why get upset about it?

Comic books strength is in their own medium (by leaps and bounds I would say but that would be another argument) and fortunately for me I came into them long before the current era of movie making. I can only imagine the disdain I would have for them if I were introduced to the concepts through these movies. I would miss out on all the brilliant artists who have worked in the field over the years. The best of comics can't really translate to other mediums and to think it even comes close is to do a disservice to our beloved hobby (i.e. only the most superficial elements make it through).