Scorsese slams MCU 0

[marvelcollector]

Two filmmakers that have created truly great movies, but can we hear from a film creator under 75 now please?

Sorry, this plays as sour grapes, and they couldn't be more off base.

[Larryw7]

Sour grapes from the creators of RAGING BULL, THE GODFATHER 1 and 2, and GOODFELLAS? I doubt it. I'm sure that their frustration comes from the fact that thoughtful, adult movies don't get the green light like they used to, and movies that are full of CGI and often empty spectacle are all that's offered at cinemas anymore. I'm sure they're not thrilled with garbage like Disney's remakes.either. I've enjoyed most Marvel movies, but many of them play like episodes of a TV show. The only Marvel movies that transcend this and are "cinematic" in the sense that.Marty.and Francis mean are the first IRON MAN, the two GOTG, RAGNAROCK, and IW. The first AVENGERS  movie was great, but.it defines the word "thrill ride". Sorry, but this is how I feel after 11 years of being inundated with these movies.

 

[TheBook]

On 10/20/2019 at 5:06 AM, bentbryan said:

All this demonstrates is that you could have created some of the most iconic, beloved movies off all time and emotionally still be a jealous little beoatch. 
 

[Bosco685]

42 minutes ago, Larryw7 said:

Sour grapes from the creators of RAGING BULL, THE GODFATHER 1 and 2, and GOODFELLAS? I doubt it. I'm sure that their frustration comes from the fact that thoughtful, adult movies don't get the green light like they used to, and movies that are full of CGI and often empty spectacle are all that's offered at cinemas anymore. I'm sure they're not thrilled with garbage like Disney's remakes.either. I've enjoyed most Marvel movies, but many of them play like episodes of a TV show. The only Marvel movies that transcend this and are "cinematic" in the sense that.Marty.and Francis mean are the first IRON MAN, the two GOTG, RAGNAROCK, and IW. The first AVENGERS  movie was great, but.it defines the word "thrill ride". Sorry, but this is how I feel after 11 years of being inundated with these movies.

I still laugh at this Twitter response.

As a comic book fan, I was more offended by Coppolla's comment more than Scorsese. But I do have to agree with @Larryw7. What we are probably seeing is the underlying studio shifts going on what is considered a solid -script nowadays.

With all the money rolling in on the more successful comic book films, studios are probably being very selective what they are looking for to jump in on the excitement. So any independent or small production concepts are tossed to the side to make way for that next Avengers, Spider-Man or Wonder Woman. Just in this case it is the old guard calling out what studios are doing through poorly placed comments directed at the genre instead of the studios themselves.That's where the barbs should be thrown to make the point.

Who knows how many Godfathers, Goodfellas or Taxi Drivers are not being made because of these greedy studios only wanting the bigger fish to fry? It's not crazy concept to assume this is going on across Hollywood, frustrating older and newer film creators targeting independent or small budget films.

[newshane]

He is correct. MCU movies aren't "cinema" as defined by college film professors or professional critics. 

They are popcorn movies. 

Nothing wrong with that. 

Wagyu ceases to be special if eaten every day. Sometimes McDonalds hits the spot. 

You can't read Cormac McCarty all the time. Sometimes a nice, formulaic sci-fi pulp will do. 

You can like Bach and Cannibal Corpse.  

I don't need, or want, to be intellectually stimulated every time I visit the theater. Sometimes, I like a ridiculously fantastical movie to take me away from the negativity in my life. MCU movies, in general, afford a nice, albeit temporary, distraction from the real world. 

[marvelcollector]

1 hour ago, Larryw7 said:

Sour grapes from the creators of RAGING BULL, THE GODFATHER 1 and 2, and GOODFELLAS? I doubt it. I'm sure that their frustration comes from the fact that thoughtful, adult movies don't get the green light like they used to, and movies that are full of CGI and often empty spectacle are all that's offered at cinemas anymore. I'm sure they're not thrilled with garbage like Disney's remakes.either. I've enjoyed most Marvel movies, but many of them play like episodes of a TV show. The only Marvel movies that transcend this and are "cinematic" in the sense that.Marty.and Francis mean are the first IRON MAN, the two GOTG, RAGNAROCK, and IW. The first AVENGERS  movie was great, but.it defines the word "thrill ride". Sorry, but this is how I feel after 11 years of being inundated with these movies.

 

Yes, sour grapes, and your second sentence explains precisely why they would feel that way. They are very frustrated. I would like to see more character and plot driven movies as well, and they are tougher and tougher to get made. I'm not defending these movies, but to claim they're not cinema, and call them despicable is just the frustration bubbling up.

[Larryw7]

Frustration is not the same thing as sour grapes. Sour grapes implies jealousy. I doubt.either filmmaker is jealous of any of these movies. And yes, calling them despicable is really overboard. But I'll give a pass to the man who gave us THE GODFATHER films and APOCALYPSE NOW.

[bane]

15 hours ago, Larryw7 said:

Sour grapes from the creators of RAGING BULL, THE GODFATHER 1 and 2, and GOODFELLAS? I doubt it. I'm sure that their frustration comes from the fact that thoughtful, adult movies don't get the green light like they used to, and movies that are full of CGI and often empty spectacle are all that's offered at cinemas anymore. I'm sure they're not thrilled with garbage like Disney's remakes.either. I've enjoyed most Marvel movies, but many of them play like episodes of a TV show. The only Marvel movies that transcend this and are "cinematic" in the sense that.Marty.and Francis mean are the first IRON MAN, the two GOTG, RAGNAROCK, and IW. The first AVENGERS  movie was great, but.it defines the word "thrill ride". Sorry, but this is how I feel after 11 years of being inundated with these movies.

 

[valiantman]

12 hours ago, Larryw7 said:

Frustration is not the same thing as sour grapes. Sour grapes implies jealousy.

It's possible that sour grapes implies jealousy now, but it used to imply frustration with not getting what you want.  The story of sour grapes was about a single fox (person), not about a group where someone was jealous of another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

[paperheart]

Ken Loach Weighs In On Superhero Movie Debate: “They’re Made As Commodities Like Hamburgers”

https://deadline.com/2019/10/ken-loach-weighs-superhero-movie-debate-made-commodities-hamburgers-1202765842/

whoever he is

[AndyFish]

1- They are both right-- the Marvel Movies are entertainment rides, like a video game or an amusement park ride. 

2- By Cinema he's referring to "art"-- there are plenty of art movies that are not me cuppa but I understand the difference.

3- I'm not a fan of superhero movies for the most part because they are long and boring to me.   I got about halfway through Endgame on a flight-- the Hulk and Ant Man were great, but the story was just meandering and dull.   There are no actual consequences in these movies.   Characters die and we're supposed to care only to have them come back in the next movie. Makes for boring storytelling.   DItto 90% of comic book movies.   When they do have a decent story they figure out another way to screw it up-- Bale's enhanced Batman voice for instance.

4- Why does anyone care what someone else thinks about movies they like?   If you like these things good for you, I hold no ill will against you for your taste.   I like Roller Coaster rides myself, but not three hour ones.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, paperheart said:

Ken Loach Weighs In On Superhero Movie Debate: “They’re Made As Commodities Like Hamburgers”

https://deadline.com/2019/10/ken-loach-weighs-superhero-movie-debate-made-commodities-hamburgers-1202765842/

whoever he is

Ken Loach is one of Britain's great Social Realist filmmakers, along with Mike Leigh. He generally makes gritty yet heartfelt movies about the British working class. Of course he isn't going to like comic book movies just as I'm sure he doesn't like Star Wars movies, Indiana Jones movies, Star Trek movies, Terminator movies, Godzilla movies, Transformer movies, any Disney movie for that matter, Lord of the Rings movies, Jurassic Park movies, any movie starring Tom Cruise or other actor making over $10million per picture, and horror movies. If you're going to use social realism as your barometer than 90% of movies are a corporate commodity or "roller coaster ride." I did cry on a roller coaster once as a kid.

[N e r V]

I wonder what it’s like over at the Coppola household when his comic book collector/fan nephew Nic drops by with his changed comic book superhero last name and his comic book lead credits in Ghost Rider for a bite....

Edited October 22, 2019 by N e r V

[@therealsilvermane]

2 hours ago, AndyFish said:

1- They are both right-- the Marvel Movies are entertainment rides, like a video game or an amusement park ride. 

2- By Cinema he's referring to "art"-- there are plenty of art movies that are not me cuppa but I understand the difference.

3- I'm not a fan of superhero movies for the most part because they are long and boring to me.   I got about halfway through Endgame on a flight-- the Hulk and Ant Man were great, but the story was just meandering and dull.   There are no actual consequences in these movies.   Characters die and we're supposed to care only to have them come back in the next movie. Makes for boring storytelling.   DItto 90% of comic book movies.   When they do have a decent story they figure out another way to screw it up-- Bale's enhanced Batman voice for instance.

4- Why does anyone care what someone else thinks about movies they like?   If you like these things good for you, I hold no ill will against you for your taste.   I like Roller Coaster rides myself, but not three hour ones.

There now appears to be an official "Marvel Movies Are Trash" Bandwagon Ride that you can now jump on. Thanks, Scorseezee.

So Marvel Movies are amusement park rides or a video game, huh? Ok, let's compare the first Thor movie to a popular roller coaster, say, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disney World:

The first Thor film directed by Kenneth Branagh introduces us to a protagonist Thor who wants to be King of Asgard but can't because of his hubris and also because he's been exiled to Earth by his father Odin. In order to be worthy of the Kingship of Asgard and get back home, he must prove himself worthy. But what is worthy? The physical manifestation of being worthy for Thor is if he can pick up a hammer called Mjolnir. Through the course of the movie, he befriends Midgardians who help him search for the hammer. When he finds it, he can't lift it. He is truly unworthy. But when Thor sacrifices his own life out of love for Jane Foster and his Midgard/Asgard friends who are in danger from the Asgardian Destroyer which was sent by Loki to kill Thor once and for all, Thor proves he can be selfless and can be worthy of the Throne of Asgard and his hammer, Mjolnir. He tries to impart this newfound wisdom to his brother Loki. But Loki, damaged by years of jealousy as well as learning he isn't a true Asgardian but rather a Frost Giant, self exiles himself to the stars. The royal family of Asgard is broken, but move on, changed from this experience. The movie featured pretty good directing by Kenneth Branagh and an outstanding cast which made unknowns Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston almost household names.

On Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, you get in a row of metal cars and go real fast for five minutes on a smooth state of the art track twisting and turning through caves and over big drops on a replica Southwestern themed mountain.

So how is a Marvel Movie like an amusement park ride again?

Edited October 22, 2019 by @therealsilvermane

[valiantman]

I can't believe we're nearing 100 replies and no one has posted this yet:

[N e r V]

I like some of work by both filmmakers but also could critique their work at times as being unoriginal remakes or repetitive too. Did we need that many Godfathers after the original classic? 
 

I think the live and let live in film should apply here. People don’t usually go to the movies to learn something or be enlightened or both those guys are crazy if they think gangster films being done over and over is doing that.

Someone mentioned before about it being like attacking Bugs Bunny for not deserving to be made. If you ever saw the movie from Hollywood’s golden age Sullivan’s Travels it’s about a filmmaker trying to make an “important” film around the depression era and learning instead people use films as an “escape” from reality and just want to be entertained at times. It’s considered a classic but since gangsters weren’t in it I doubt those two ever saw it.

 

The recent comments by these guys and others is why Hollywood gets its bad (and deserved) rep as being elitist. At this point they may as well go all the way and start telling everyone how stupid they are for attending superhero type movies and how wrong they are for liking them.

Listen to Martin And Francis and they’ll tell what’s good or bad to watch...

Edited October 22, 2019 by N e r V

[N e r V]

4 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I can't believe we're nearing 100 replies and no one has posted this yet:

[valiantman]

30 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

There now appears to be an official "Marvel Movies Are Trash" Bandwagon Ride that you can now jump on. Thanks, Scorseezee.

So Marvel Movies are amusement park rides or a video game, huh? Ok, let's compare the first Thor movie to a popular roller coaster, say, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disney World:

The first Thor film directed by Kenneth Branagh introduces us to a protagonist Thor who wants to be King of Asgard but can't because of his hubris and also because he's been exiled to Earth. In order to be worthy of the Kingship of Asgard and get back home, he must prove himself worthy. The physical manifestation of being worthy for Thor is if he can pick up a hammer called Mjolnir. Through the course of the movie, searches for the hammer and can't lift it. He is truly unworthy. But when Thor sacrifices his own life out of love for Jane Foster and his friends who are in danger from the Asgardian Destroyer, sent by Loki to kill Thor once and for all, Thor proves he can be selfless and can be worthy of the Throne of Asgard, and be worthy of Mjolnir. He tries to impart this newfound wisdom to his brother Loki. But Loki, damaged by years of jealousy as well as learning he isn't a true Asgardian but rather a Frost Giant, self exiles himself to the stars. The royal family of Asgard is broken, but move on, changed from this experience. The movie featured pretty good directing by Kenneth Branagh and an outstanding cast which made unknowns Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston almost household names.

On Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, you get in a row of metal cars and go real fast for five minutes on a smooth state of the art track twisting and turning through caves and over big drops on a replica Southwestern themed mountain.

So how is a Marvel Movie like an amusement park ride again?

Better yet, let's compare The Godfather to the line you stand in before you get on the amusement park ride:

The Godfather - a brilliant, but slow-moving movie originally released to a crowded, small area containing many people who all paid for admission, with a Sicilian mafia family in America, with many interesting conversations and some surprising family drama from enemies and from within, where Sonny isn't patient enough for Dad and gets himself in big trouble. It takes a couple hours. You're both excited and glad when it's over and you can cross it off your bucket list. You can now stream The Godfather online and skip the boring parts.

The line for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad - a slow-moving trek back and forth in a crowded, small area containing many people who all paid for admission, with some families in America from who knows where, with possibly some interesting conversations and even surprising family drama from enemies and from within, where Sonny isn't patient enough for Dad and gets himself in big trouble. It takes a couple hours. You're both excited and glad when it's over and you can cross it off your bucket list. You can now stream Big Thunder Mountain Railroad online and skip the boring parts.

Edited October 22, 2019 by valiantman

[@therealsilvermane]

18 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Better yet, let's compare The Godfather to the line you stand in before you get on the amusement park ride:

The Godfather - a brilliant, but slow-moving movie originally released to a crowded, small area containing many people who all paid for admission, with a Sicilian mafia family in America, with many interesting conversations and some surprising family drama from enemies and from within, where Sonny isn't patient enough for Dad and gets himself in big trouble. It takes a couple hours. You're both excited and glad when it's over and you can cross it off your bucket list. You can now stream The Godfather online and skip the boring parts.

The line for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad - a slow-moving trek back and forth in a crowded, small area containing many people who all paid for admission, with some families in America from who knows where, with possibly some interesting conversations and even surprising family drama from enemies and from within, where Sonny isn't patient enough for Dad and gets himself in big trouble. It takes a couple hours. You're both excited and glad when it's over and you can cross it off your bucket list. You can now stream Big Thunder Mountain Railroad online and skip the boring parts.

One could probably make an entertaining reality show series out of some of these amusement park waiting lines. However, I never to Thunder Mountain Railroad without a fast pass.

[AndyFish]

46 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

There now appears to be an official "Marvel Movies Are Trash" Bandwagon Ride that you can now jump on. Thanks, Scorseezee.

So Marvel Movies are amusement park rides or a video game, huh? Ok, let's compare the first Thor movie to a popular roller coaster, say, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disney World:

The first Thor film directed by Kenneth Branagh introduces us to a protagonist Thor who wants to be King of Asgard but can't because of his hubris and also because he's been exiled to Earth by his father Odin. In order to be worthy of the Kingship of Asgard and get back home, he must prove himself worthy. But what is worthy? The physical manifestation of being worthy for Thor is if he can pick up a hammer called Mjolnir. Through the course of the movie, he befriends Midgardians who help him search for the hammer. When he finds it, he can't lift it. He is truly unworthy. But when Thor sacrifices his own life out of love for Jane Foster and his Midgard/Asgard friends who are in danger from the Asgardian Destroyer which was sent by Loki to kill Thor once and for all, Thor proves he can be selfless and can be worthy of the Throne of Asgard of hammer, Mjolnir. He tries to impart this newfound wisdom to his brother Loki. But Loki, damaged by years of jealousy as well as learning he isn't a true Asgardian but rather a Frost Giant, self exiles himself to the stars. The royal family of Asgard is broken, but move on, changed from this experience. The movie featured pretty good directing by Kenneth Branagh and an outstanding cast which made unknowns Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston almost household names.

On Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, you get in a row of metal cars and go real fast for five minutes on a smooth state of the art track twisting and turning through caves and over big drops on a replica Southwestern themed mountain.

So how is a Marvel Movie like an amusement park ride again?

The problem with any corporate character is there will never be any actual development because they are corporately owned characters.   I've not seen Thor, but I'm more than willing to agree there are good movies in the MCU-- but to compare them to original works featuring characters driven by something other than a set of standard rules to protect the intellectual property value is like apples and oranges.

Again, why the outrage that someone doesn't like these?   Who cares?   I certainly could care less if you don't like something like DIABOLIQUE-- but I thought it was a great movie.   Your opinion on it changes nothing for me.