UK Variants - why the large value disparity 1 1

[duplicatecomics]

I noticed that the pence vs cents issue prices vary but quite a fair bit for non-key issues, whilst for the larger books, the price discount seems much less. However, the supply for pence variants is much lower (i read a figure of 3-5% being thrown around before). Given its relative rarity, shouldn't prices at least be comparable to its cents counterpart? Demand certainly plays a factor but I wonder whether the much lower supply figures should at least help to contribute to prices being higher.

[valiantman]

The quick answer is something like:

"A comic book is primarily known as an 'American medium' (since 1938) which reflects lots of 'American pop culture' aspects of growing up in America with American characters from American writers, American artists, produced by an American company, etc.  As a result, you'll see that the American issue of a comic book generally sells for more money than a "foreign edition" for the same reason that a classic American movie poster (King Kong 1933, older than comics) sells for more than the foreign release poster for the same movie.  For the same reason, but with opposite results, you'll see that British first editions of books like Harry Potter sell for more than their American counterparts, having Harry Potter as a British character from a British writer, etc."

 

[revat]

The lower supply only matters if there is a demand, and the cause of the demand.  If the demand is either for the 'original' book, or for the book that reminds you most of your childhood, and most (by a wide margin) collectors are American, they'll be satisfied with an American copy, especially if it creates uniformity with the rest of their likely American collection.  For the keys, you get more 'fans' of a specific key issue or event or character, who are more likely to want something more 'special' after they've already collected the original.

I guess it just comes down to "Who would want to buy this comic and why, and what are the reasons anyone would pay more or less for any given issue?"

[Get Marwood & I]

Pence copies are worth ten times their cents counterparts. Fact. 

[valiantman]

15 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Pence copies are worth ten times their cents counterparts. Fact. 

Are you buying or selling? 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/17/2019 at 6:31 AM, duplicatecomics said:

I noticed that the pence vs cents issue prices vary but quite a fair bit for non-key issues, whilst for the larger books, the price discount seems much less. However, the supply for pence variants is much lower (i read a figure of 3-5% being thrown around before). Given its relative rarity, shouldn't prices at least be comparable to its cents counterpart? Demand certainly plays a factor but I wonder whether the much lower supply figures should at least help to contribute to prices being higher.

Hello DC,

I was waiting to see if you would post again.

I take it you are referring to Marvel pence copies here. I've dabbled a little in this area and I can tell you that there is near zero interest in the pence variants produced by Archie, Charlton, DC, Dell Gold Key and King Comics. The only publisher that attracts any meaningful interest is, surprise surprise, Marvel.

As a general rule, historically, pence copies have commanded much lower prices than their cents counterparts. This is entirely understandable as the comics are US creations. We have always loved the medium in the UK, hence the books coming to our shores first as stamped copies and then with our currency applied for a time. But even the majority of UK based collectors prefer the cents copies as they represent 'purity'. There are many other influencing factors. Because of the notorious shipping issues there are hardly any headline titles for which you can collect a full set of pence copies. Amazing Spider-Man stops at issue 17 and doesn't start again until issue 28. That can put collectors off. There has been much speculation as to printing order. Are pence copies later reprints or true first printings. The history is plagued with misinformation which can put people off.

I have spent well over ten years documenting what pence copies exist, three of them here, and you will not find a bigger appreciator of them. But I understand completely why they have been, are, and likely always will play second fiddle to the US priced copies. 

That said, I see the keys are starting to gain traction as you yourself note. That is also entirely understandable. As more is known about them, collectors will see opportunities to own key books in pence which may be out of reach in cents. One personal view I hold is that there are a hardcore of serious collectors who are excited by any variants. I am one of them. So pence copies are a natural progression for those who have completed their cents collections.

Scarcity will always play a part. I live in England. Many early Marvel titles - especially pre-hero, romance and western - are virtually non existent now as pence copies. If they exist, they are squirrelled away in collections and rarely see the light of day. There are books for which I have only ever seen one or two copies in all my years. So the prices on these are starting to rise (especially titles like JIM, TTA, TOS). On the flip, no one is interested in 'My Girl Pearl' #7 as a pence copy. The title commands zero interest. So it could be the only pence copy in the world and wouldn't be worth much. There has to be something in the title that attracts collector interest in the first place.

As a parallel, there has been a near explosion in the prices seen for Australian price variants. It appals me personally, but it is rooted I think in the growing understanding that they exist, their comparative scarcity, and the desire to 'clean up' the keys while they are available. And the fact that many collectors love variants, especially first printings. 

Anyway, I could go on, but I hope this helps. It would be nice to hear your thoughts having raised the question and now that you have received a few replies. 

[duplicatecomics]

14 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Hello DC,

I was waiting to see if you would post again.

I take it you are referring to Marvel pence copies here. I've dabbled a little in this area and I can tell you that there is near zero interest in the pence variants produced by Archie, Charlton, DC, Dell Gold Key and King Comics. The only publisher that attracts any meaningful interest is, surprise surprise, Marvel.

As a general rule, historically, pence copies have commanded much lower prices than their cents counterparts. This is entirely understandable as the comics are US creations. We have always loved the medium in the UK, hence the books coming to our shores first as stamped copies and then with our currency applied for a time. But even the majority of UK based collectors prefer the cents copies as they represent 'purity'. There are many other influencing factors. Because of the notorious shipping issues there are hardly any headline titles for which you can collect a full set of pence copies. Amazing Spider-Man stops at issue 17 and doesn't start again until issue 28. That can put collectors off. There has been much speculation as to printing order. Are pence copies later reprints or true first printings. The history is plagued with misinformation which can put people off.

I have spent well over ten years documenting what pence copies exist, three of them here, and you will not find a bigger appreciator of them. But I understand completely why they have been, are, and likely always will play second fiddle to the US priced copies. 

That said, I see the keys are starting to gain traction as you yourself note. That is also entirely understandable. As more is known about them, collectors will see opportunities to own key books in pence which may be out of reach in cents. One personal view I hold is that there are a hardcore of serious collectors who are excited by any variants. I am one of them. So pence copies are a natural progression for those who have completed their cents collections.

Scarcity will always play a part. I live in England. Many early Marvel titles - especially pre-hero, romance and western - are virtually non existent now as pence copies. If they exist, they are squirrelled away in collections and rarely see the light of day. There are books for which I have only ever seen one or two copies in all my years. So the prices on these are starting to rise (especially titles like JIM, TTA, TOS). On the flip, no one is interested in 'My Girl Pearl' #7 as a pence copy. The title commands zero interest. So it could be the only pence copy in the world and wouldn't be worth much. There has to be something in the title that attracts collector interest in the first place.

As a parallel, there has been a near explosion in the prices seen for Australian price variants. It appals me personally, but it is rooted I think in the growing understanding that they exist, their comparative scarcity, and the desire to 'clean up' the keys while they are available. And the fact that many collectors love variants, especially first printings. 

Anyway, I could go on, but I hope this helps. It would be nice to hear your thoughts having raised the question and now that you have received a few replies. 

Thanks for the very detailed post! I'm very new to the CGC Boards, but certainly not new to collecting comics (IG handle is my ID here, but quite new there too).

It does interest me though that you actually prefer the cents copies over the pence copies even though you're English! I'm neither English nor American so I'm somewhat ambivalent about either.

The key thing here to me is, as I understand it, literally almost everything is the same. Cover, content, same press, printed at the same time, same paper, same ink. At some point of time the pence was printed instead of cents, and the calendar month was removed so that long shipping time wouldn't make it seem like the comics were outdated. But it seems to me that they are one, and the same! Except for that price. I can't help but wonder if this is down to general collector education, or whether truly not many collectors want the pence variants despite knowing the history behind it? In modern age comics, there are plenty of collectors that clamor after cover variants (I personally don't).

There are certainly collectors out there who look for pence variants because variants in general appeal to them. I do seek out a few pence titles (the earlier ones i have are FF#1, #3, #5 etc). Another source of demand is also those who want to own key books but who can't afford / not willing to pay as much for the cents copies. The latter group however is probably getting smaller primarily because the pence variants are starting to get almost as expensive as the cents copies.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

5 hours ago, duplicatecomics said:

Thanks for the very detailed post! I'm very new to the CGC Boards, but certainly not new to collecting comics (IG handle is my ID here, but quite new there too).

Welcome 

Quote

It does interest me though that you actually prefer the cents copies over the pence copies even though you're English! I'm neither English nor American so I'm somewhat ambivalent about either.

I personally don't prefer cents. The polar opposite is true of me , hence my earlier comment: ".....you will not find a bigger appreciator of them" (than me). But I've always flown in the face of popular opinion. 

 

Quote

The key thing here to me is, as I understand it, literally almost everything is the same. Cover, content, same press, printed at the same time, same paper, same ink. At some point of time the pence was printed instead of cents, and the calendar month was removed so that long shipping time wouldn't make it seem like the comics were outdated.

Have you been reading my threads? 

Quote

But it seems to me that they are one, and the same! Except for that price. I can't help but wonder if this is down to general collector education, or whether truly not many collectors want the pence variants despite knowing the history behind it? In modern age comics, there are plenty of collectors that clamor after cover variants (I personally don't).

There are certainly collectors out there who look for pence variants because variants in general appeal to them. I do seek out a few pence titles (the earlier ones i have are FF#1, #3, #5 etc). Another source of demand is also those who want to own key books but who can't afford / not willing to pay as much for the cents copies. The latter group however is probably getting smaller primarily because the pence variants are starting to get almost as expensive as the cents copies.

 

Pop over to the Marvel UK Price Variant thread and post those FF's. We'd love to see them 

[GermanFan]

I dont mind pence copies. 

[GermanFan]

I look for the Aussie Cap 76 from the 50s. Must be rare.

[Get Marwood & I]

56 minutes ago, GermanFan said:

I dont mind pence copies. 

Quite right too. 

53 minutes ago, GermanFan said:

I look for the Aussie Cap 76 from the 50s. Must be rare.

Cool. Tell us more GF 

[AJD]

1 hour ago, GermanFan said:

I look for the Aussie Cap 76 from the 50s. Must be rare.

I've seen one in a decade of looking for Australian comics of that period. So, yeah, it's somewhat rare... There were two issues in the series and I've never seen a real life copy of the second one.

[PetuniaGrimm]

The weird price that looks like it was added after the printing as some kind of typo correction (It just doesn't look right to me) That's what I don't like about them and stops me from buying them

[Get Marwood & I]

30 minutes ago, PetuniaGrimm said:

The weird price that looks like it was added after the printing as some kind of typo correction (It just doesn't look right to me) That's what I don't like about them and stops me from buying them

I know. It doesn't make cents does it Petunia.

[PetuniaGrimm]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I know. It doesn't make cents does it Petunia.

No cents at all!!    That's a great pic, those things are just awful (IMO).  So how does the UK market feel about the weird cents prices on US books? 

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, PetuniaGrimm said:

No cents at all!!    That's a great pic, those things are just awful (IMO).  So how does the UK market feel about the weird cents prices on US books? 

Let's ask them shall we. Well, one of them.

@Ken Aldred Ken. As our chief representative of the UK market, what do you think of those weirdy cents and dollar symbols on your comics? 

[porcupine48]

6 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Let's ask them shall we. Well, one of them.

@Ken Aldred Ken. As our chief representative of the UK market, what do you think of those weirdy cents and dollar symbols on your comics? 

Whatever K.A. sez,I agree .

And if you disagree with Ken,I'll get the voles out 

[Ken Aldred]

9 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Let's ask them shall we. Well, one of them.

@Ken Aldred Ken. As our chief representative of the UK market, what do you think of those weirdy cents and dollar symbols on your comics? 

I actually really like them. I always thought it made more sense, seemed right, to have American comics with American prices on them, and I eventually moved completely in that direction.

Although, of course, I have very  fond childhood memories of Marvel All-Colour Comics and TaP-stamped DCs, and they also deserve respect.

Apparently, though, voles have a deep hatred of cent copies, which amplified our mutual animosity, and developed and led to what now can only be described as a perpetual state of unresolvable, inter-species war.

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Ken Aldred

[Ken Aldred]

48 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

Whatever K.A. sez,I agree .

And if you disagree with Ken,I'll get the voles out 

Horrible. Quite horrible.

The thought of a pack of them together is nightmare fuel.

Pure scum.

[Get Marwood & I]