Batman #251 Cover Art Being Auctioned (Guess The Final Bid, all ya'll Smarty Pantses !!) 1 1

[exitmusicblue]

Not a DC guy.  But went for 500-750k, what the hell.  Think it'll be closer to the former.

 

[jjonahjameson11]

2 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

I understand your love for Batman 227's cover, but it's popularity is actually much newer than 251. 251 was hot from the day it hit the stands. 227 was cool, but its real collectibility rose with the realization that Detective 31 was the iconic Batman cover. Batman 227 is popular not because of Adams but because of the homage to Detective 31. Again, Batman 251 has always been considered an important cover. Batman 227 has only been considered in same for the last decade or so.

Thanks, Richard:

the books’ publication preceded my time, and I am aware of the 227 homage to tech 31, however, I don’t believe that 251 caught on value wise as much as 227.  I’ll double check my Overstreet’s to confirm

[Pete Marino]

1 hour ago, comix4fun said:

Yes.

Beatles, awesome. Nice cover, nice era for Neal....not 251. Not Joker. Not the Icon the 251 is.  

It's the difference between how much Eddie Murphy loves a Ritz cracker as opposed to any old generic cracker how much Rick James Loves cocaine

updated for clarity

[comix4fun]

Just now, Pete Marino said:

updated for clarity

I was dating myself with that, wasn't I?

Eddie's joke from the original "Raw" special always stuck with me. 

[Bronty]

57 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Thanks, Richard:

the books’ publication preceded my time, and I am aware of the 227 homage to tech 31, however, I don’t believe that 251 caught on value wise as much as 227.  I’ll double check my Overstreet’s to confirm

You’re going to believe what Overstreet printed over what Richard’s telling you?   He’s been in the game at the highest level for a long time.   More to the point , can you ever recall a single instance where he was wrong about something comic related?   He chooses his words carefully from what I’ve seen.

[jjonahjameson11]

5 minutes ago, Bronty said:

You’re going to believe what Overstreet printed over what Richard’s telling you?   He’s been in the game at the highest level for a long time.   More to the point , can you ever recall a single instance where he was wrong about something comic related?   He chooses his words carefully from what I’ve seen.

Having attended University in Texas in the mid-90’s, I’ve met Richard in person several times (heck, even sold him my high grade Avengers 4 and Hulk 6), and yes, he’s very knowledgeable, but that doesn’t mean that I should forego my own due diligence.  And besides, it’ll be a fun little activity for me.

[PhilipB2k17]

Batman 251 is a cool cover. It's value comes from being a really cool cover. GL 76 is a cool cover, but also one of the most important keys in comics, the comic that is considered to be the 1st of the Bronze Age. 

This is sort of like comparing the best non-key Flash cover (not sure what that'd be. Flash #105? Flash New 52 #1?) to the cover of Showcase #4. 

For reference: Flash #105. (I am not counting Flash #123 "Flash of Two Worlds," as that is a major Key).

Edited October 29, 2019 by PhilipB2k17

[Mystafo]

ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS!! 

[delekkerste]

50 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Batman 251 is a cool cover. It's value comes from being a really cool cover. GL 76 is a cool cover, but also one of the most important keys in comics, the comic that is considered to be the 1st of the Bronze Age. 

First does not necessarily mean best or most expensive.  GL 76 is also not universally considered to be the launching point of the Bronze Age.  But, even assuming it is, it's not like the book marked such a clear and obvious demarcation with the past as, say, Showcase #4 did for the Silver Age by bringing superheroes back into the fore.  I just don't think it's as important like the first Golden Age or first Silver Age books are.  Does anybody even care what the first Copper Age book or Modern book was?  Sliding scale of importance, IMO... 

Also, Green Lantern and Green Arrow, bro.  Not exactly most people's favorite superheroes, nor the icons that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman are.  

Batman #251 has an iconic cover, and the book marked the launching point of the Joker as a more hard-edged, murderous psychopath.  You know what else is an iconic cover?  Amazing Spider-Man #50.  Yeah, it's the first Kingpin issue, but, the cover has zero to do with him and it's the iconic cover image that is 90%+ of the draw with this book.  Just like Batman #251 is the launching point for the modern Joker, but, it's the iconic cover image that is 90%+ of the draw with this book.  And the ASM #50 cover reportedly sold a few years ago in the range that we are talking about for the Bats #251 now.  Doesn't seem like a stretch at all to me.  

Edited October 29, 2019 by delekkerste

[Bronty]

4 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

First does not necessarily mean best or most expensive.  GL 76 is also not universally considered to be the launching point of the Bronze Age.  But, even assuming it is, it's not like the book marked such a clear and obvious demarcation with the past as, say, Showcase #4 did for the Silver Age by bringing superheroes back into the fore.  I just don't think it's as important as the first Golden Age or first Silver Age book is.  Does anybody even care what the first Copper Age book or Modern book was?  Sliding scale of importance, IMO... 

Also, Green Lantern and Green Arrow, bro.  Not exactly most people's favorite superheroes, nor the icons that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman are.  

Batman #251 has an iconic cover, and the book marked the launching point of the Joker as a more hard-edged, murderous psychopath.  You know what else is an iconic cover?  Amazing Spider-Man #50.  Yeah, it's the first Kingpin issue, but, the cover has zero to do with him and it's the iconic cover image that is 90%+ of the draw with this book.  Just like Batman #251 is the launching point for the modern Joker, but, it's the iconic cover image that is 90%+ of the draw with this book.  And the ASM #50 cover reportedly sold a few years ago in the range that we are talking about for the Bats #251 now.  Doesn't seem like a stretch at all to me.  

I don't like it in a way  because I've never cared for bats 251, but I can kinda see it.   GL76 sold for 4 and change some time ago.   Might be 5 or 6 and change now.    Which would put the two of them in the same ballpark which doesn't seem that unreasonable considering the raging.... umm, 'excitement' that some people have for the joker.

As Chris C said the GL 76 is a much more significant book but this one has much more significant characters.

[delekkerste]

42 minutes ago, Bronty said:

I don't like it in a way  because I've never cared for bats 251, but I can kinda see it.   GL76 sold for 4 and change some time ago.   Might be 5 or 6 and change now.    Which would put the two of them in the same ballpark which doesn't seem that unreasonable considering the raging.... umm, 'excitement' that some people have for the joker.

As Chris C said the GL 76 is a much more significant book but this one has much more significant characters.

Eh, how much more significant is it, really.  First appearance of more socially relevant Green Lantern/Green Arrow stories. BFD.  

I kid - somewhat - but, how much do people really care.  I mean, really, really care, as opposed to just being told that it's important and that they should care about it.  Clearly, the people into Lee, Capullo, Murphy, etc. and who don't even know who Neal Adams is don't care one iota about things like this (cue the:  "Gene has stolen my dreams and my childhood with his ageism!"  again...)  

And, in any case:  Action #1 kicked off superheroes in the Golden Age.  Showcase #4 brought back superheroes to a new Silver Age.  The Bronze Age?  I see it as more of a continuum - the stories had gotten progressively less goofy/corny throughout the Silver Age, and it's not like one day GL/GA #76 came out and, voila, we were in the Bronze Age (and, anyone who's read GL #76 knows that it's still PLENTY corny).  Huge overstatement by people implying that it marked some kind of singular Action #1 or Showcase #4-like turning point.  I'm not saying that it's not a big deal...just not necessarily as big a deal as some are making it out to be. 

And, again, first doesn't necessarily mean best or most valuable.  What is considered to be the first Marvel Bronze Age book?  Conan #1 (some would argue that the entire Bronze Age started here)?  And yet, it's Hulk #181, GSXM 1 and XM 94 that are the Big 3 Marvel BA books.  FF #1 is considered to be the first Marvel Silver Age book, but, AF #15 has long since surpassed it in importance and popularity. For good reason in both cases, of course, but, just reinforcing my point that first <> most valuable.  I can think of easily half a dozen Bronze Age DC covers that I'd personally rather own than GL #76...  

I personally don't see any imperative at all for GL #76 to have to be worth as much or more than Batman #251.  I think the OA is a different animal from the comic book for each issue. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by delekkerste

[Bronty]

47 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Eh, how much more significant is it, really.  First appearance of more socially relevant Green Lantern/Green Arrow stories. BFD.  

I kid - somewhat - but, how much do people really care.  I mean, really, really care, as opposed to just being told that it's important and that they should care about it.  Clearly, the people into Lee, Capullo, Murphy,

I personally don't see any imperative at all for GL #76 to have to be worth as much or more than Batman #251.  I think the OA is a different animal from the comic book for each issue. 

Well.   Different animal perhaps, but related.

I don't think there's any question that GL 76 was always a bigger deal in the past.   It won the best story award for that year for a reason.   Its miles ahead of most of the tripe that was being published at the time.

That being said, character has definitely come to matter much more than in the past and as you point out, its not batman and is losing relevance over time.

I dunno.   I hear your points but when I see 500k+ for what I consider an awkward drawing of the joker from what I don't consider a significant issue ('mean' Joker?  as you said, BFD), I'm just glad its not my money.   

Edited October 29, 2019 by Bronty

[grapeape]

4 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

First, I was referring to "Batman" in the generic sense, not the "Title of the Comic" sense. But, still, is this a fair comp?

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/neal-adams-and--giordano-batman-stacked-cards-book-and-record-set-pr-27-cover-original-art-power-records-/a/7187-91002.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Sold for $31,000 a year ago. Are we expecting the #251 cover to go for 20 times that?

Some of us are yes

[vodou]

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

(cue the:  "Gene has stolen my dreams and my childhood with his ageism!"  again...)  

You forgot to hyperlink it to a previous full-bodied screed

[PhilipB2k17]

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Eh, how much more significant is it, really.  First appearance of more socially relevant Green Lantern/Green Arrow stories. BFD.  

I kid - somewhat - but, how much do people really care.  I mean, really, really care, as opposed to just being told that it's important and that they should care about it.  Clearly, the people into Lee, Capullo, Murphy, etc. and who don't even know who Neal Adams is don't care one iota about things like this (cue the:  "Gene has stolen my dreams and my childhood with his ageism!"  again...)  

And, in any case:  Action #1 kicked off superheroes in the Golden Age.  Showcase #4 brought back superheroes to a new Silver Age.  The Bronze Age?  I see it as more of a continuum - the stories had gotten progressively less goofy/corny throughout the Silver Age, and it's not like one day GL/GA #76 came out and, voila, we were in the Bronze Age (and, anyone who's read GL #76 knows that it's still PLENTY corny).  Huge overstatement by people implying that it marked some kind of singular Action #1 or Showcase #4-like turning point.  I'm not saying that it's not a big deal...just not necessarily as big a deal as some are making it out to be. 

And, again, first doesn't necessarily mean best or most valuable.  What is considered to be the first Marvel Bronze Age book?  Conan #1 (some would argue that the entire Bronze Age started here)?  And yet, it's Hulk #181, GSXM 1 and XM 94 that are the Big 3 Marvel BA books.  FF #1 is considered to be the first Marvel Silver Age book, but, AF #15 has long since surpassed it in importance and popularity. For good reason in both cases, of course, but, just reinforcing my point that first <> most valuable.  I can think of easily half a dozen Bronze Age DC covers that I'd personally rather own than GL #76...  

I personally don't see any imperative at all for GL #76 to have to be worth as much or more than Batman #251.  I think the OA is a different animal from the comic book for each issue. 

The debate on the start of the Bronze age is a valid one. Some might argue its Amazing Spider-Man 96, which starts the drugs story line that blew up the Comics Code as it’s beginning. 
 

but I actually like the GL #76 cover as ART better than Batman 251. 

[BCarter27]

18 hours ago, Nexus said:

I've heard that DKR #1 has a standing $1MM offer for it

Wow. That's impressive even if it didn't change hands.Would that be first American superhero art to $1M?

18 hours ago, Nexus said:

SUPERMAN #233

Definitely iconic! I'd be curious to see what the OA looks like. Probably not as rendered or tight as some of the other covers discussed. But the hero shot of all hero shots.

I'd add Batman 244 near the tippy-top of my Adams list.

[zhamlau]

650-700k with juice/tax.

[jjonahjameson11]

6 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Thanks, Richard:

the books’ publication preceded my time, and I am aware of the 227 homage to tech 31, however, I don’t believe that 251 caught on value wise as much as 227.  I’ll double check my Overstreet’s to confirm

OK, my hat's off to you, Richard.  I checked values of the two books in all of the Overstreet volumes I own and here's the results...1st number is the year, second is the value for Batman 227, and the third number is the value for Batman 251:

1981, 80 cents, $3.75

1986, 80 cents, $3.60

1991, 8, 30 (big bump due to Batman movie)

1998, 14, 45

2000, 20, 55

2005, 55, 95

2008, 85, 120

2011, 250, 175

2014, 600, 250

2015, 700, 500

2016, 750, 600

2017, 900, 900

2018, 950, 925

2019, 975, 975 (looks as though they're running out of steam...)

 

[Crowzilla]

3 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

OK, my hat's off to you, Richard.  I checked values of the two books in all of the Overstreet volumes I own and here's the results...1st number is the year, second is the value for Batman 227, and the third number is the value for Batman 251:

1981, 80 cents, $3.75

1986, 80 cents, $3.60

1991, 8, 30 (big bump due to Batman movie)

1998, 14, 45

2000, 20, 55...

Another important thing to remember is that Overstreet is hopelessly behind the market on many books, and 251 sold for well over guide all during this time, so the actual spread was even larger.

[Catwoman_Fan]

On 10/29/2019 at 5:04 PM, grapeape said:

Some of us are yes

 

On 10/29/2019 at 5:04 PM, grapeape said:

  On 10/29/2019 at 12:28 PM, PhilipB2k17 said:

First, I was referring to "Batman" in the generic sense, not the "Title of the Comic" sense. But, still, is this a fair comp?

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/neal-adams-and--giordano-batman-stacked-cards-book-and-record-set-pr-27-cover-original-art-power-records-/a/7187-91002.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Sold for $31,000 a year ago. Are we expecting the #251 cover to go for 20 times that?

 

I agree that is not a comp.

A small example is that Heritage sold the Joker/Batman interiors from the above Power Records story, for 2-4 thousand (even i was able to afford one with Joker ).   

As for 251, even pages with little to no Batman sell for 4x that.