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Batman #251 Cover Art Being Auctioned (Guess The Final Bid, all ya'll Smarty Pantses !!)
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Final Bid For Batman #251  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think the Batman #251 original art cover will sell for?

    • 0 - $50,000
      0
    • $50,000 - $100,000
      0
    • $100,000 - $200,000
      1
    • $200,000 - $300,000
      4
    • $300,000 - $400,000
      11
    • $400,000 - $500,000
      15
    • $500,000 - $750,000
      19
    • $750,000 - $1,000,000
      6
    • $1,000,000 - $1,500,000
      0
    • $1,500,000 - $2,000,000
      0
    • $2,000,000 +
      0

This poll is closed to new votes

  • Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.
  • Poll closed on 11/01/2019 at 04:00 PM

153 posts in this topic

27 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I suspect there are more than 3 people who are still in the mix at this point. $366K is less than what some are asking for non-key twice up Marvel covers, and this piece, no matter what anyone's individual opinion is, has a ton more cachet in the eyes of many. I think there's still a ways to go before we weed it down to 3 contenders. 2c

Plus, remember, the stock market is at all time highs, interest rates are at 5000 year lows, and people are paying stooooopid prices for collectibles everywhere these days (e.g. $202K for a manufactured collectible 1 of 30 Derek Jeter card from 1996 the other week...it was somehow billed as his rookie card, but, his regular rookie card came out in 1993).  Anyway, total insanity, and a reminder that logic and rational analysis are not working in any market at present. So, Bats 251 I think has a lot further to run IMO... 

Didn’t see the Jeter auction but by description I assume your talking about The mirror gold 96 psa 10. 
 

That card is grail for a lot of collectors, more than a psa 10 1993 SP foil. It’s just so rare and condition sensitive due to the foily nature of it. Jeter has enough guys driving him that I can see it. Hell if a black lotus beta BGS 9.5 can hit 100k where there are maybe a dozen or more in that grade, I can see the only Jeter doing that.

Also the rule in baseball isn’t just first year cards now (which I agree is sorta BS but with the advent of Bowman scooping these guys up years before their pro debuts I sorta get it) count as RC’s. In fact only cards released your rookie year (qualified) count for that technical distinction. Agreed it’s a little goofy but the market has spoken on that. 
 

Sorry if off topic but I like modern cards a fair amount so I’m a fan of talking em.

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40 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I suspect there are more than 3 people who are still in the mix at this point. $366K is less than what some are asking for non-key twice up Marvel covers, and this piece, no matter what anyone's individual opinion is, has a ton more cachet in the eyes of many. I think there's still a ways to go before we weed it down to 3 contenders. 2c

Plus, remember, the stock market is at all time highs, interest rates are at 5000 year lows, and people are paying stooooopid prices for collectibles everywhere these days (e.g. $202K for a manufactured collectible 1 of 30 Derek Jeter card from 1996 the other week...it was somehow billed as his rookie card, but, his regular rookie card came out in 1993).  Anyway, total insanity, and a reminder that logic and rational analysis are not working in any market at present. So, Bats 251 I think has a lot further to run IMO... 

OK. Maybe 4 people. Including a dealer, or two, who want to put it on their sales wall as advertising. 

Edited by PhilipB2k17
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29 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Sorry if off topic but I like modern cards a fair amount so I’m a fan of talking em.

Most of us have other hobbies that are OT. But wow, just two paragraphs on the subect and I know I will never, ever understand or care to understand that hobby. You sure this isn't your other priority hobby?

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4 minutes ago, vodou said:

Most of us have other hobbies that are OT. But wow, just two paragraphs on the subect and I know I will never, ever understand or care to understand that hobby. You sure this isn't your other priority hobby?

Haha it’s definitely something I like, it’s a LOT cheaper than art. Not sure it’s really sustainable though the way it’s been going as of late.

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On 10/28/2019 at 7:44 AM, delekkerste said:

No, just no.  

At least. I would be less surprised by a 7-handle than a 4-handle, all-in.  Most likely a 5 or 6 handle.  Chance of a 2 or 3 handle is somewhere between Slim and None and Slim just left the building. 

I agree 250K range is just right!  IMHO  : - ) 

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9 hours ago, zhamlau said:

That card is grail for a lot of collectors, more than a psa 10 1993 SP foil. It’s just so rare and condition sensitive due to the foily nature of it. Jeter has enough guys driving him that I can see it. Hell if a black lotus beta BGS 9.5 can hit 100k where there are maybe a dozen or more in that grade, I can see the only Jeter doing that.

Also the rule in baseball isn’t just first year cards now (which I agree is sorta BS but with the advent of Bowman scooping these guys up years before their pro debuts I sorta get it) count as RC’s. In fact only cards released your rookie year (qualified) count for that technical distinction. Agreed it’s a little goofy but the market has spoken on that. 
 

Sorry if off topic but I like modern cards a fair amount so I’m a fan of talking em.

I'm sorry, but the current Modern sports card craze is the among the dumbest things I've ever seen.  There is no way on earth that this $202K Jeter card is going to hold its value over the long run (incidentally, that's enough to buy a 1952 Topps Mantle PSA 7 and still have enough left over for a new BMW). I think that eventually people are going to realize that the thought of this card somehow representing the pinnacle of Derek Jeter collectibles (which is how it's priced) is totally absurd.  I mean, what does $202K buy you in terms of Jeter game-used uniforms and equipment?  The thought of a manufactured collectible with artificial scarcity/scarcity in grade actually being a Grail to real fans who didn't grow up like Boomers/Gen Xers/early Millennials with the old way of thinking that baseball cards were the top of the sports memorabilia food chain I think is utterly nonsensical and makes everything in comics and comic art look positively sane by comparison. 

Heck, the MTG Black Lotus Beta looks like an utter bargain by comparison - sure, there are a dozen or more in grade, but, what is a 1/1 PSA 10 when it's artificial scarcity to begin with (and those foil cards, as we have sadly learned, are also ludicrously easy to trim/manipulate)?  To me, there's just nothing inherently desirable about something like this (and this is far from an isolated example - we both know of dozens and dozens of absolutely idiotic 5 and 6 figure gimmick cards from the 1990s and 2000s; PWCC on eBay has tons of them for sale every week without exception).  I don't know when, but, I guarantee you that this will end very, very badly.  

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16 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I'm sorry, but the current Modern sports card craze is the among the dumbest things I've ever seen.  There is no way on earth that this $202K Jeter card is going to hold its value over the long run (incidentally, that's enough to buy a 1952 Topps Mantle PSA 7 and still have enough left over for a new BMW). I think that eventually people are going to realize that the thought of this card somehow representing the pinnacle of Derek Jeter collectibles (which is how it's priced) is totally absurd.  I mean, what does $202K buy you in terms of Jeter game-used uniforms and equipment?  The thought of a manufactured collectible with artificial scarcity/scarcity in grade actually being a Grail to real fans who didn't grow up like Boomers/Gen Xers/early Millennials with the old way of thinking that baseball cards were the top of the sports memorabilia food chain I think is utterly nonsensical and makes everything in comics and comic art look positively sane by comparison. 

Heck, the MTG Black Lotus Beta looks like an utter bargain by comparison - sure, there are a dozen or more in grade, but, what is a 1/1 PSA 10 when it's artificial scarcity to begin with (and those foil cards, as we have sadly learned, are also ludicrously easy to trim/manipulate)?  To me, there's just nothing inherently desirable about something like this (and this is far from an isolated example - we both know of dozens and dozens of absolutely idiotic 5 and 6 figure gimmick cards from the 1990s and 2000s; PWCC on eBay has tons of them for sale every week without exception).  I don't know when, but, I guarantee you that this will end very, very badly.  

Oh agreed on many levels. This current trajectory is just nuts like I said. It’s not sustainable. I’m just saying this card is impossible to find and impossible in grade (think 2 exist). It’s not insane to me to think the most collected modern players hardest most brag worthy card would be chased to insane record levels.

However I just saw the auction...it was Brent and Betsy selling it...that’s concerning considering their recent scandals. That puts this sale in a very suspect light now. 
 

As for young buyers, I do see young people at shows buying and selling this stuff. I think people aren’t seeing young millennials and post-mil properly in terms of them being collectors. I think the hoarding/acquisition/collecting gene is strong in them.

Edited by zhamlau
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37 minutes ago, vodou said:

"range" = mocking how wide your quoted spread was lol

A multiple six-figure item like this is going to have a potentially wide variance of outcomes. (shrug)  And I did give a point estimate of $660K for the statistically illiterate. :baiting: 

Also, $720K-$504K is $216K, not $250K. (shrug)  I don't know if you're right about his referring to the spread as opposed to using "range" as a synonym for "area".  

 

Edited by delekkerste
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6 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

A multiple six-figure item like this is going to have a potentially wide variance of outcomes. (shrug)  And I did give a point estimate of $660K for the statistically illiterate. :baiting: 

Also, $720K-$504K is $216K, not $250K. (shrug)  I don't know if you're right about his referring to the spread as opposed to using "range" as a synonym for "area".  

 

I was thinking 4-7 handle, roughly. Maybe I give that fella too much credit, but you did open pretty wide. Mine was 400-500, just 20% off the top to bottom of range.

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13 minutes ago, vodou said:

I was thinking 4-7 handle, roughly. Maybe I give that fella too much credit, but you did open pretty wide. Mine was 400-500, just 20% off the top to bottom of range.

It wasn't meant to be so much a range as it was just pointing out 3 key levels - first, I said that I bet we see a 5-handle on this, so that means $420K hammer ($504K w/juice).  Then I said, it would take $550K hammer ($660K w/juice) to beat the Hulk #180 and ASM #328, and is where I put my chips down.  And then I said it would take $600K hammer ($720K w/juice) to beat the Fritz the Cat result, which is kind of where I see a natural stopping point.  

And, in any case, given that many of the pre-auction starting estimates both here and offline had $2, $3, and $4 handles, there's absolutely nothing to mock about a $216K range whose lower bound is a $5-handle.  It's a somewhat wide range (30% off the top to bottom vs. your 20%) , but, it's starting from a value that many did not even think would be reached. hm  

In any case, your $400-$500K range is fine as a guess that doesn't want to seem too wide, but, it's effectively $450K plus or minus $50K, which I suspect doesn't really capture much of the bell curve. (shrug) 

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1 hour ago, delekkerste said:

your $400-$500K range is fine as a guess

It's just the range OP gave in the poll choices ;)

I did explain in comments that i saw 80 being HOUSE though, so I wasn't seeing greater than 500k -including BP. BP is so huge now (on these big ticket lots), it should get it's own zip code...which is exactly how HA likes it. The rest of your comment previous...

1 hour ago, delekkerste said:

It wasn't meant to be so much a range as it was just pointing out 3 key levels - first, I said that I bet we see a 5-handle on this, so that means $420K hammer ($504K w/juice).  Then I said, it would take $550K hammer ($660K w/juice) to beat the Hulk #180 and ASM #328, and is where I put my chips down.  And then I said it would take $600K hammer ($720K w/juice) to beat the Fritz the Cat result, which is kind of where I see a natural stopping point.  

And, in any case, given that many of the pre-auction starting estimates both here and offline had $2, $3, and $4 handles, there's absolutely nothing to mock about a $216K range whose lower bound is a $5-handle.  It's a somewhat wide range (30% off the top to bottom vs. your 20%) , but, it's starting from a value that many did not even think would be reached. hm  

if it takes that many words to explain... :devil:

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5 minutes ago, vodou said:

It's just the range OP gave in the poll choices

Bottom line, my "range" is narrower than the $500-$750K range the OP gave in the poll choices. (shrug)  So, nothing to see here... :whistle: 

That few enough words for you home slice? :makepoint: 

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On 10/25/2019 at 8:36 PM, NamesJay said:

Current $450 K w BP. 

15 are still alive guessing 400-500 K

19  Are alive waiting to see if it goes 500-750 K

6 Are alive and believe it will go 750-1M

My guess was $605 K

And Neal Adams cut = ????

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On 10/29/2019 at 11:28 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

First, I was referring to "Batman" in the generic sense, not the "Title of the Comic" sense. But, still, is this a fair comp?

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/neal-adams-and--giordano-batman-stacked-cards-book-and-record-set-pr-27-cover-original-art-power-records-/a/7187-91002.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Original Comic Art:Covers, Neal Adams and Dick Giordano Batman: Stacked Cards [Book and Record Set] PR-27 Cover Original Art (Power Records, ...Sold for $31,000 a year ago. Are we expecting the #251 cover to go for 20 times that?

 

On 10/29/2019 at 11:34 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

 

 

Turns out the answer was yes. Healthy fight during live bidding to get there too. 

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Just now, zhamlau said:

I had this all in 650-700. WIth BP and tax it was like 640 I think?

Depends on where you live....I think it would be $660k or more in some places. 

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