Relative Newbie Question 0

[Siege Perilous]

So I’ve been slowly acquiring art for the last 4 or 5 years but almost always from an art dealer, the artist themselves, auction or via commission. I’ve never been in a “make an offer” situation. I found myself in 2 in the last week that went poorly. My question to the fine folks here is what’s the protocol for this? In both cases I offered something that I thought was fair but on the low end in anticipation of negotiating upwards. Should I be approaching this differently? I was afraid of offering my max amount (I’m dealing with a fixed amount of money I don’t want to stray from) because then I can’t go up from there. The one person on CAF was pretty annoyed and a bit obnoxious with their response to my offer. So to avoid that, how should I be handling this in the future?

 

Thanks!

Edited November 2, 2019 by ZimmermanTelegram

[eewwnuk]

Unless its something u really want, i avoid make offer situations.  In the rare instances i go into these i ask  people if there is a ball park # they are looking for and go from there. 

[vodou]

27 minutes ago, ZimmermanTelegram said:

I offered something that I thought was fair but on the low end in anticipation of negotiating upwards.

Make an offer generally = pay me more than anybody else would aka known on the used car lot as "how much is in your wallet?". Thus these situations have little to do with fair value or close but under (as you were thinking). If you're working on a budget where the piece is question is right around what you have to spend...just move past. That deal probably isn't going to happen. But if you're ever in a similar situation where you have plenty available to spend on a particular piece (and don't mind overpaying for whatever reason), then instead of making that first offer - ask the other person for a number that they would immediately accept. That will be a larger number than you think it should be, but you'll turn it around and chisel down from it. It's all a stupid who has the upper hand power play thing. Most of us don't even stop to look at those listing to begin with, so much art out there that is available hassle-free, why chase for the hassle?!

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, ZimmermanTelegram said:

So I’ve been slowly acquiring art for the last 4 or 5 years but almost always from an art dealer, the artist themselves, auction or via commission. I’ve never been in a “make an offer” situation. I found myself in 2 in the last week that went poorly. My question to the fine folks here is what’s the protocol for this? In both cases I offered something that I thought was fair but on the low end in anticipation of negotiating upwards. Should I be approaching this differently? I was afraid of offering my max amount (I’m dealing with a fixed amount of money I don’t want to stray from) because then I can’t go up from there. The one person on CAF was pretty annoyed and a bit obnoxious with their response to my offer. So to avoid that, how should I be handling this in the future?

 

Thanks!

Yeah. It gets weird sometimes out there. Don’t ask for offers, and than get angry when it’s lower than you expected. Negotiate. I think the people who act as your oferees did really are uncertain about the value of their own art. 

[malvin]

one question, was the piece for sale (even passively rather than actively) or was it a piece you were trying to pry from someone's collection?

Malvin

[Pete Marino]

I'll just add, you are dealing with people.  So it helps to get to know them, or ask a mutual friend.  You'll quickly know who is fair to deal with, who the scammer/hucksters are, who has insane expectations, and who's just insane.

Over the years I've found there no one set way to make deals, is matters how hot you are for the art and who the seller is.

[Siege Perilous]

14 minutes ago, malvin said:

one question, was the piece for sale (even passively rather than actively) or was it a piece you were trying to pry from someone's collection?

Malvin

That’s a fair question, the page was listed in the classifieds as for sale but marked as “make an offer”. I reached out to the owner, complimented the piece  and asked them what they were looking to get for it and they told me to make them an offer on it.

Edited November 3, 2019 by ZimmermanTelegram

[Siege Perilous]

Thank you for all the replies already, I truly appreciate the insight.

[malvin]

9 minutes ago, ZimmermanTelegram said:

That’s a fair question, the page was listed in the classifieds as for sale but marked as “make an offer”. I reached out to the owner, complimented the piece  and asked them what they were looking to get for it and they told me to make them an offer on it.

ah ok, I would consider that actively for sale.

I think if you are asking for an offer, and the offer is disappointing, you should be professional and just say no thank you, without being rude about it.

But as Pete said, you are dealing with people, some people will sell with a reasonable offer, while others are just fishing and aren't really interested in selling (even if it was on a for sale gallery marked as make an offer)

Malvin

[grapeape]

Often times make an offer is a simple way for a collector or dealer to test, in dollars and cents the interest potential buyers might have for art they own without having to necessarily sell it. Setting a price too high might stale the piece later if they should really have to sell. Setting a price too low may obligate them to sell beneath a "mad money" offer.

One of the biggest worries a collector has is selling art and seeing that art flipped (Flip o the day) for a higher price. Make an offer never means low ball me you might get lucky. It almost always means pay too much. If it's a grail you have to have then you will decide what is too much to offer.

Finally when something is part of a collection NFS (Not for sale)(Permanent Collection) you still can ask. However you better come with a very serious offer and be polite. Even then you may never hear back from the owner.

 

[Rick2you2]

Honestly, I don’t think you did anything wrong. People have a tendency to overvalue what they own, and some just get huffy when the rest of the world doesn’t see it the same way.

I generally don’t respond to a “make me an offer”, but when I have, I generally do so at the lower end of the market, too. In my case, I don’t resell, so I like to point out that what goes into the collection will stay there to be treasured (so the seller won’t think I plan to market the piece).

If someone is insulted by an offer, that is his/her problem, not yours. Let’s face it, this stuff is just a bunch of paper for sale—not an attack on someone’s integrity. If it happens again, just point out you weren’t attacking him/ her. It was just what you thought it was worth. If he/she thinks differently, then how much? Maybe that can get you your deal.

[Abe5M]

This is the reason why I don't respond to art for sale that asks for an offer. If the seller gets a low offer for the art just politely refuse the offer no need to be a jerk about it. Everyone might not feel like your art is worth what you think. 

[Real Elijah Snow]

I have several pieces in my CAF with "Offers" on them. 

I get messages fairly often with people asking me what I'm looking to get. 

I'm looking to get offers. 

Most times I get no response to this. I'm ok with that because I'm not a motivated seller. 

Sometimes I get what I consider lowball offers back in response. I don't bother responding after that at all. 

Sometimes I get a decent offer and I let the person know that i will consider it/keep it mind when I'm motivated to sell, and when I get tired of something or get something similar that I like better, I'll contact the person who made the offer and ask if they are still interested at their offer price. Most times they are. I only sell a few pieces a year this way, but it's what works for me. 

Sometimes (slightly off topic) I get offers on a few pieces, and go back and forth with some maroon about when they can pay for over a month, finally give up on them, and decide to add them to the stack I send Comiclink a couple of times a year when I purge stuff I don't care about. Then sometimes the pieces sell at comiclink auction for over double what I had accepted from mr maroon waste my time face. Ok, this happened once. This year. Accepted offer price from Mr Maroon? $700. Clink hammer price? $1650. Thank you Mr Maroon for being a deadbeat dummy. Also, if Mr maroon is reading this, thanks for not honoring your agreement to pay for the Brunner Dr Strange and Bachalo DD pg. That extra $900 was pretty sweet and you are a dummy. 

Anyway, back to the point a bit, I'd say don't bother lowballing. You might get ignored. Give your best offer and stay there. If they come back with something even slightly higher, let them know that that really was your top offer and that you are willing to honor it for X amount of time. You might end up getting it for your desired price, or you might not. Move on to something else after the amount of time you've allotted has expired. I've bought a lot of art this way with people who want blind offers. 

[eewwnuk]

Sounds like the guy the op posted about.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 11/2/2019 at 9:19 PM, malvin said:

ah ok, I would consider that actively for sale.

I think if you are asking for an offer, and the offer is disappointing, you should be professional and just say no thank you, without being rude about it.

But as Pete said, you are dealing with people, some people will sell with a reasonable offer, while others are just fishing and aren't really interested in selling (even if it was on a for sale gallery marked as make an offer)

Malvin

Don’t say “accepting offers,” and then refuse to provide a counter offer when someone makes you an offer. You can say it’s too low! That’s how negotiations work. You then reply with a number you would sell the piece at. If you don’t want to sell, don’t say you are accepting offers. 

[PhilipB2k17]

8 hours ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

I have several pieces in my CAF with "Offers" on them. 

I get messages fairly often with people asking me what I'm looking to get. 

I'm looking to get offers. 

Most times I get no response to this. I'm ok with that because I'm not a motivated seller. 

Sometimes I get what I consider lowball offers back in response. I don't bother responding after that at all. 

Sometimes I get a decent offer and I let the person know that i will consider it/keep it mind when I'm motivated to sell, and when I get tired of something or get something similar that I like better, I'll contact the person who made the offer and ask if they are still interested at their offer price. Most times they are. I only sell a few pieces a year this way, but it's what works for me. 

Sometimes (slightly off topic) I get offers on a few pieces, and go back and forth with some maroon about when they can pay for over a month, finally give up on them, and decide to add them to the stack I send Comiclink a couple of times a year when I purge stuff I don't care about. Then sometimes the pieces sell at comiclink auction for over double what I had accepted from mr maroon waste my time face. Ok, this happened once. This year. Accepted offer price from Mr Maroon? $700. Clink hammer price? $1650. Thank you Mr Maroon for being a deadbeat dummy. Also, if Mr maroon is reading this, thanks for not honoring your agreement to pay for the Brunner Dr Strange and Bachalo DD pg. That extra $900 was pretty sweet and you are a dummy. 

Anyway, back to the point a bit, I'd say don't bother lowballing. You might get ignored. Give your best offer and stay there. If they come back with something even slightly higher, let them know that that really was your top offer and that you are willing to honor it for X amount of time. You might end up getting it for your desired price, or you might not. Move on to something else after the amount of time you've allotted has expired. I've bought a lot of art this way with people who want blind offers. 

I am not a fan of this way of operating. Original art is hard enough to value without me trying to read the seller’s mind about what he thinks is a “lowball” offer. You handle that by saying: “Way too low. I’ll take ____$ for it.” Then the buyer can either respond with a much higher offer or move onto something else. 

I get blown off by a seller like this, I strike them off of my “buy art from them” list. 
 

All my art is NFS unless I put it up for sale. If someone makes me a offer out of the blue, I’ll consider it, and give them a fair response. 

[vodou]

2 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

trying to read the seller’s mind about what he thinks is a “lowball” offer. You handle that by saying: “Way too low. I’ll take ____$ for it.”

Nice suggestion, but only for motivated sellers. That poster quoted identified as unmotivated, that means no effort will be given to 'handling'...I'm good with that. When you get no response, that's all you need to know. Now the rudeness as a response is imo too much, regardless of motivation level, but it's a free country (they say, ain't so though) and so what. Some people are sorta jerks. Haven't you ever met one of those before? The whining about it here, there, anywhere will not encourage them to be less of a jerk...ya know? So what's the point?

[Blastaar]

On 11/2/2019 at 8:08 PM, ZimmermanTelegram said:

That’s a fair question, the page was listed in the classifieds as for sale but marked as “make an offer”. I reached out to the owner, complimented the piece  and asked them what they were looking to get for it and they told me to make them an offer on it.

First mistake, never compliment it. Just like dating....talk about the flaws and then go in for the close. 

 

Edit: Just kidding. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Blastaar

[ESeffinga]

Well that advice is a straight up horse turd. Sure, come take a dig at some art I’m selling and then see how fast I sell it to you... 

 

 

spoiler alert: It’s never.  Anything. Ever.

[PhilipB2k17]

5 minutes ago, Blastaar said:

First mistake, never compliment it. Just like dating....talk about the flaws and then go in for the close. 

I don’t even do that. I ask things like: “What did the missing stat say/show?” Or, “Do you still have it?” That gets the point across. That’s after I express interest in buying the art. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by PhilipB2k17