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UPDATE: Test results posted, lignin removal
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84 posts in this topic

32 minutes ago, Krismusic said:

I am not sure and just tossing it out there as you want discussion.. I love the process and that it brings more structural integrity to the books but to me it seems to maybe be lifting something such as maybe gloss or colour very very very slightly like maybe at the microscopic level.. you can kind of notice it a bit in the IRON MAN red title. Maybe just a theory that the lignin that your removing might have colour or gloss attached with it and removing it leaves the colours not as sharp? or looking grainy kind of. I circled a few to zoom in on maybe it doesn't look like it in real life compared to photos just going off on the images you scanned. I mean the grainy that I am looking at also seems to be mildly through out the book some more harsher near certain spots too which leads me to believe or guess that maybe those areas had heavier tanning or lignin removal.. as I am not sure of your process.. 

before 

image.png.ed6b654e9350726535ebaa5d52a71f84.png

After

image.thumb.png.c5e9914d772107fababb3f1799a6fecd.png

That is entirely possible.  Just de-acidification can lift ink depending on water temp, length of bath.  Every book is a little different with paper type, ink set, type of fixative, etc.  Most likely it is that part of the process that does it.  The de-acidification is done last, and sometimes you will see some slight tint to the water that is yellow and you know ink is lifting.  The initial two baths never have that tint, as areal test i left a book in for 48 hours.  Expecting to find goo in the bath the next day the book was surprisingly undamaged.

i was going to through this out there, but not sure if it breaks any forum rules.  Allow ten people to send a cover/book to get their opinion in hand.  If that doesn’t break the rules I would do it no charge.

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6 hours ago, 427Impaler said:

i was going to through this out there.  Allow ten people to send a cover/book to get their opinion in hand.  If that doesn’t break the rules I would do it no charge.

Most generous conservation offer for Forumites :gossip: in time for X-mas and the holidays.

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As long as I’m not bending any rules, anyone who wants to send me a cover I’ll do it no charge, you pick up the shipping.  First ten people who post here qualify.  I’m near Vancouver Canada and shipping a low value cover/book should be about 10 bucks each way.

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6 hours ago, Sauce Dog said:

I am interested in this experiment as i'm in Ontario so shipping will be much easier - though i'm drawing a blank on which issues I have that are super yellowed. :D

I have seen the results of this conservation process in hand. A silver age comic with moderate yellowing even on a darker :cool: colored cover will become much cleaner and crisper in appearance. I don't really recommend a square bound comic, as that would be a bigger challenge (but not impossible) since this first sample is a 'freebie.'

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Haven’t had the chance until now to post an update.  Lignin is confirmed as substance removed from paper by this process so that is very exciting.  Third party Industrial testing is next.

I neglected to post the aging test of a pressed book.  Interesting results, I expected to see the presets book show accelerated signs of aging but after a full cycle of testing both halves of the book scored the same on the fold test.  Unexpected result you can see in the pic, the book almost returned to the unpressed state after the aging test!  Paper has memory!

 

Before (top of book unpressed)

657555DC-173A-4AF6-BA61-8CA573E004B4.thumb.jpeg.5e953c53bc858ad62d1a1becd7f25442.jpeg

After

3F589311-44E0-418F-BC70-F36702828BA4.thumb.jpeg.3828aa9be319618ee3c3d7821bf97a8c.jpeg

back of book before

6F87F68E-7F64-41A3-AB3A-AC7193938FAB.thumb.jpeg.fafaea13f1e845e82659d30edf4561aa.jpeg

68C3CB60-4598-4AD4-A026-4B622C6D5A49.thumb.jpeg.44b5852800dd373316ad894e0cfc995f.jpeg

 

 

 

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Yes, as a matter of fact we have been doing tons of testing and verification.  Just concluded a test for determination of lignin post treatment, using acidified phloroglucinol as a reagent.  Testing involved splitting a page and treating one half, followed with both being tested using the reagent.  Untreated section immediately turned crimson which is positive for lignin content while the reagent did not change color on the treated peice.

Although it was expected, we were all very pleased with the result, and at this point are upgrading the lab while doing a limited amount of client work.

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Here are the pics of the results, the piece tested was the very first artifact we used the process on.  Both pieces received one drop of acidified phloroglucinol, the untreated piece reacted immediately with a deep crimson hue, while the treated piece reacted very slowly and produced a much fainter staining.  Pic:

DAF33570-9F15-48F8-A43D-3744F656C4F1.thumb.jpeg.f44f1b8f65b96dcc0de0f5936151184b.jpeg

So we are very happy this result.  A significant amount of lignin is being extracted with no damage to the artifact.

I totally understand the mindset of not altering collectibles, however at some point all books will need a treatment like this to extend their lives.  Silver Age Marvel books were made of some of the worst possible paper and will really need sone help at sone point.  Marvel chipping is a sign of how age sensitive they are.  The added cosmetic benefit is really secondary to prevention of acid hydrolysis:

 

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Comic books entirely aside, if you've got a working process to remove lignin non-destructively from mechanical pulp paper, you're going to have a lot of pretty interested conservation professionals. Have you tested this process on newsprint? Should be readily available in volume, and ought to make the artificial aging tests pretty conclusive. And, frankly, might be easier to use for destructive testing in lieu of finding beater bunny books to bisect.

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Definitely many applications for this process.  It was interesting how many people in the conservation field were uninterested in it at first, i think there was a lot of skepticism.  I’ve had lots of help with a conservator in England who had trying to do the same thing a few years ago unsuccessfuly, he is very excited with the results:

Next step is to refine the process to remove all lignin and then reintroduce ph buffers in its place to really reduce aging (ISO 9706 standards)

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Hi, been busy and away from the boards for a while.  While I have not tried the process on OA pieces I have used it on 19th century lithographs with good results.  As with all conservation projects there would be some inconspicuous testing at the beginning to determine colorfastness of paper and ink type.  Often there are pieces glued in place that may or may not complicate things a bit.  Current state of affairs is spectrographic analysis by a third party laboratory to quantify exact amount of lignin removed and any other changes in paper chemistry

Edited by 427Impaler
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