Impact of characters on FMV 0

[grapeape]

15 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Like, I'm supposed to argue this point? 

You’re awesome Scott thanks! Obviously folks if you want a slam dunk finish have Scott working on the art.
Scott of course one of my favorite artists period!!!

 

[revat]

just to be clear, and I don't mean this with any sarcasm, are we trying to identify the biggest original art price gaps between characters drawn by the same artist? 

Are we talking absolute values or percentages?

Are we assuming these are characters that were regularly drawn by those artists?

 

If I understand the game correctly (and I don't think I do?), I submit Jack Kirby FF or Captain America or Avengers over Jack Kirby Destroyer Duck

Also for Modern stuff, Jim Lee Batman or Wolverine over Jim Lee Grifter or Deathblow

[Rick2you2]

3 hours ago, revat said:

just to be clear, and I don't mean this with any sarcasm, are we trying to identify the biggest original art price gaps between characters drawn by the same artist? 

Are we talking absolute values or percentages?

Are we assuming these are characters that were regularly drawn by those artists?

 

If I understand the game correctly (and I don't think I do?), I submit Jack Kirby FF or Captain America or Avengers over Jack Kirby Destroyer Duck

Also for Modern stuff, Jim Lee Batman or Wolverine over Jim Lee Grifter or Deathblow

What motivated the subject is to see where people can get great art at a "bargain" price by a particular artist by focusing on the factor of the main character as key. It doesn't matter if it is by percentages or dollars, really.

So yes, as to Jack Kirby, but Destroyer Duck was done later in his career, and I am not sure he was as sharp then (like Neil Adams new stuff vs. his older stuff). Closer in time to FF or Captain America would be a better source of comparison. Now obviously, most artists don't bounce around to different books every few months, so you have a lot of leeway. Likewise, some artists have multiple styles, like Byrne (WW vs. Legends), or Colleen Doran, so for them, it is best to stay with the same style they are using.

There aren't really any rules. But, if could offer examples of different pricing for Lee's Batman vs. Grifter which were similar in type (panel pages, splashes, etc.), you deserve a gold star as you've proven your point.

[vodou]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

to see where people can get great art at a "bargain" price by a particular artist by focusing on the factor of the main character as key.

This is a very dangerous game to play, unless the stakes are small. The hobby by and large demands publication attributes over artist. That's another way of saying there is a reason Byrne Namor art goes for more than Byrne Next Men, when to the outsider they all look approximately the same. If you're running around collecting 'names' in ink for the cheapest possible price...you may be personally satisfied, but you may not get many high-fives from the hobby (on CAF etc) and when you try to sell will not only get less back (gain maybe but shallower slope of appreciation) but probably have a harder time finding any buyers at any reasonable price. Dangerous game.

I do collect this way, but the above is secondary to the fact that I've enjoyed the books I've gotten art from. I personally liked reading Next Men more than Namor thirty years ago and collect art from the former but not the latter. That it's cheaper too, all the better, but that is of secondary concern particularly since the art will not be for re-sale, so any slope stuff doesn't matter. At all. It's just sunk money.

[Rick2you2]

9 hours ago, vodou said:

This is a very dangerous game to play, unless the stakes are small. The hobby by and large demands publication attributes over artist. That's another way of saying there is a reason Byrne Namor art goes for more than Byrne Next Men, when to the outsider they all look approximately the same. If you're running around collecting 'names' in ink for the cheapest possible price...you may be personally satisfied, but you may not get many high-fives from the hobby (on CAF etc) and when you try to sell will not only get less back (gain maybe but shallower slope of appreciation) but probably have a harder time finding any buyers at any reasonable price. Dangerous game.

I do collect this way, but the above is secondary to the fact that I've enjoyed the books I've gotten art from. I personally liked reading Next Men more than Namor thirty years ago and collect art from the former but not the latter. That it's cheaper too, all the better, but that is of secondary concern particularly since the art will not be for re-sale, so any slope stuff doesn't matter. At all. It's just sunk money.

To me, this is a pure hobby; l have no interest in making money off it. But if I ever did want to sell something to trade up, I would consider the maxim: a rising tide lifts all ships. I may not get the highest ROI, but I will have gotten the benefit of looking at it and owning it—which is another form of compensation.

High fives don’t matter to me in terms of collecting. Why does someone earn praise if they spend over a million dollars on a Frank Frazetta painting? That just means they have money to freely spend and want to spend it on this. Now if they drew like Frazetta, I consider that praiseworthy. 

If someone admires Byrne’s work, and can not afford his Namor, knowing that there is a cheaper way to get it seems like a good idea. They can then figure out if, to get something like an Adams piece, they are willing to tolerate a page from his Jerry Lewis.

[vodou]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

To me, this is a pure hobby;

Everybody starts out that way but few that actively stick around have the resources to keep pouring money in without regard to how it could come back.

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

High fives don’t matter to me in terms of collecting. Why does someone earn praise if they spend over a million dollars on a Frank Frazetta painting? That just means they have money to freely spend and want to spend it on this.

Losing sight here; high-fives as I wrote was more toward Namor versus Next Men "art days" (here, on CAF, etc). Frazetta is essentially peerless in the price department (whatever one thinks of any other aspect of his oeuvre). There's no like for like, unless you're suggesting (in your OP) a nude male painting by Fraz, on the cheap, trumps a similar quality (size, medium, support) nude female...on lower price merit?! That would really be more the academic on a community college salary move, not a collector/fanboy move.

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

I would consider the maxim: a rising tide lifts all ships.

Until the tide turns

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

They can then figure out if, to get something like an Adams piece, they are willing to tolerate a page from his Jerry Lewis.

Is that really the Neal Adams anybody wants?

I actually want a Gene Colan Archie piece, but it's got to look (at least a bit) like Colan, not house-Archie.

[Rick2you2]

4 hours ago, vodou said:

Everybody starts out that way but few that actively stick around have the resources to keep pouring money in without regard to how it could come back.

Losing sight here; high-fives as I wrote was more toward Namor versus Next Men "art days" (here, on CAF, etc). Frazetta is essentially peerless in the price department (whatever one thinks of any other aspect of his oeuvre). There's no like for like, unless you're suggesting (in your OP) a nude male painting by Fraz, on the cheap, trumps a similar quality (size, medium, support) nude female...on lower price merit?! That would really be more the academic on a community college salary move, not a collector/fanboy move.

Until the tide turns

Is that really the Neal Adams anybody wants?

I actually want a Gene Colan Archie piece, but it's got to look (at least a bit) like Colan, not house-Archie.

Well, I have bought stuff for quite a few years, and I would not and have not spent 5 figures on any one piece (although I could). Since I just keep things, I only buy out of extra cash flow. There is plenty of excellent art produced in the last 25+ years which is just not expensive. But, if I were the kind of collector who absolutely positively wants a Byrne piece, it would be nice to know what’s available “on the cheap”. So while I would skip the male Frazetta nude, sketches can be had for under $5,000.

An ebbing tide lowers all boats. With the high dollar value on some of these things, and as aging baby boomers, etc. get out or die, big spenders are playing musical chairs with their investments. Gene (as well as myself and others) have commented about it.

 I’m not even sure Jerry Lewis’s kids would want the Adams art. But maybe his work on some early strips or a basic 6 panel will do.

 

[alxjhnsn]

On 11/13/2019 at 4:53 AM, Rick2you2 said:

They can then figure out if, to get something like an Adams piece, they are willing to tolerate a page from his Jerry Lewis.

 

On 11/13/2019 at 6:47 AM, vodou said:

Is that really the Neal Adams anybody wants?

I do, I do! I like his Jerry Lewis work. I also like the Bob Hope comic, FWTW.

What I really would like is an Sugar and Spike team-up with Jerry Lewis drawn by Neal to add to my S&S #100 faux-cover collection.

 

[Blastaar]

Byrne X-Men is prime example. Much of that is not only the characters but the story arcs and place in comic history.  But it’s still crazy to can buy a Doom Patrol page for $100. 

[vodou]

12 hours ago, Blastaar said:

But it’s still crazy to can buy a Doom Patrol page for $100. 

aka it's crazy to pay $100 for a Doom Patrol page

[Rick2you2]

13 hours ago, Blastaar said:

Byrne X-Men is prime example. Much of that is not only the characters but the story arcs and place in comic history.  But it’s still crazy to can buy a Doom Patrol page for $100. 

I just took a look at some of those pages, and I don’t think that the ones I saw are as good as what he did on X-Men. Not awful, but not as crisp or as strong a set of images. It’s similar, in a sense, to his Wonder Woman work (which is a very different style); not as good. But, there is other good Byrne work, like in Legends, which is excellent, and maybe there are some really nice Doom Patrol images out there. Still, if you just want to fill a gap...

[Andahaion]

In case any of you with young kids hasn't seen this book, "Fairy Tale Comics" is a little gem.  My four year old daughter loves it, asks we read it together almost nightly.  It was during one of these nightly rituals that I ran across this gem by David Mazzucchelli (even though DD fails to make an appearance).  Like most things in my house, I have no idea where the book came from.  I actually paid it little attention until I saw David's name. I've no idea how much these pages would cost and have no idea if they're even available, but I would think quite less than Born Again/Year One pages (not that you can buy those either).

 

[exitmusicblue]

A sweet spot is when both artist and preferred character align at a reasonable price point and popularity (resale if needed) level.  Always been a Namor fan, and Byrne Namor is infinitely more affordable than his X-Men or even FF work, while far from being relegated to the Who Dis character category.

[Rick2you2]

On 11/16/2019 at 9:54 PM, Blastaar said:

Byrne X-Men is prime example. Much of that is not only the characters but the story arcs and place in comic history.  But it’s still crazy to can buy a Doom Patrol page for $100. 

As a follow up to what I wrote earlier, the Brothers just posted two mediocre Legends pages and an FF page, as well as an Atom page, on eBay. While their pricing follows the Brothers’ usual pattern, and none of them are top notch examples, you can see how those pages show more artistry than the Doom Patrol’s pages I saw (although they are a bit crowded). 

[Rick2you2]

On 11/16/2019 at 9:54 PM, Blastaar said:

Byrne X-Men is prime example. Much of that is not only the characters but the story arcs and place in comic history.  But it’s still crazy to can buy a Doom Patrol page for $100. 

If you want a nice inexpensive Byrne page, someone named Rick (not me) Shiu aka Ricks original art gallery, on CAF, just listed the back page splash by Byrne for $300 from Lifelines. There are some others there, too, but this one, I think is the best of the bunch.

[exitmusicblue]

My sole Byrnie: