The Death of the Classic Storyline As a Collectible
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27 minutes ago, kimik said:

The previous generations of collectors also placed a premium on 1st appearances and #1s, just like the current generation does. The only difference is that the current generation is not chasing story arcs/runs for one simple reason - classic stories and runs are now being reprinted in TPBs or omnibuses or digitally. There are more options to acquire the material now. Instead of buying story arcs book by book you do it all at once with reprints if you just want to read it. 

Plenty of people are buying classic storyline comics, just not at extremely high price points.  I think people have just gotten so crazy with the keys that the rational pricing of everything else looks really cheap.  However, it only looks really cheap in comparison.  If you didn’t know how much keys go for, I think most people would say that the classic storylines go for pretty good money.  

I just sold a set of Kraven’s Last Hunt for $65.  They were nice enough books, but none of them were above VF+.  That’s $10+ a book for stuff that has never been hard to come by.    People are actually paying money for all of the issues of the original Secret Wars, not just #8.  It’s not huge money, but books that were always dollar box books are now moving at say $5/each.  A VGish copy of FF 51 probably goes for ~$25. That seems like decent money for a super common lower grade SA book.  

If all of the classic storyline books went for the kind of money the super hot keys are going for we could all sell our collections and retire.  There is just so much of all of this stuff out there that crazy prices can’t be sustained.  It’s not that demand is low, it’s just that there is supply to match it.  There are plenty of books to go around at reasonable prices.

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36 minutes ago, Hamlet said:

There is just so much of all of this stuff out there that crazy prices can’t be sustained.  It’s not that demand is low, it’s just that there is supply to match it.  There are plenty of books to go around at reasonable prices.

Take this guy to the woodshed . . . :sumo:

 

 

 

:kidaround:

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1 hour ago, kimik said:

The previous generations of collectors also placed a premium on 1st appearances and #1s, just like the current generation does. The only difference is that the current generation is not chasing story arcs/runs for one simple reason - classic stories and runs are now being reprinted in TPBs or omnibuses or digitally. There are more options to acquire the material now. Instead of buying story arcs book by book you do it all at once with reprints if you just want to read it. 

I don't disagree, but there seems to be much more speculation and profiteering currently, together with the associated chest-puffing. :whistle:

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I see vf copies of 34 selling for $20+. How much exactly do you think a very common 90s book should sell for?

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4 minutes ago, the blob said:

I see vf copies of 34 selling for $20+. How much exactly do you think a very common 90s book should sell for?

Define "very common." 

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37 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Define "very common." 

Oh Lord, are we going to go there? Slabbed 9.8s are $170-200. I know we're in an era of inflated prices and all, but that sounds like real money to me. 34 is a very common book that I have fished 10-15 copies of out of dollar boxes over the years. "Very Common" need not be turok 1 print levels to qualify as such.

Edited by the blob

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And my point is given the lack of scarcity the current prices seem pretty decent. Frankly I don't know where all the money is coming from. You could get some real keys for $200 10 years ago. We're so used to absurd price bumps on anything we've come to expect it.

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1 minute ago, the blob said:
38 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Define "very common." 

Oh Lord, are we going to go there? Slabbed 9.8s are $170-200. I know we're in an era of inflated prices and all, but that sounds like real money to me. 34 is a common book that I have fished 10-15 copies of out of dollar boxes over the years. "Common" need not be turok 1 print levels to qualify as such.

You better believe we're going to go there.

Cap City orders: 28,700, SOO copies sold: 156,000 average

(Cap City Orders for New Mutants #87: 34,500. #98: 55,200. Spiderman #1: 426,200)

Silver Surfer #34...by the standards of the day...was not "very common." It exists in lower numbers than other major keys of the era. 

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1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You better believe we're going to go there.

Cap City orders: 28,700, SOO copies sold: 156,000 average

(Cap City Orders for New Mutants #87: 34,500. #98: 55,200. Spiderman #1: 426,200)

Silver Surfer #34...by the standards of the day...was not "very common." It exists in lower numbers than other major keys of the era. 

Except -- it's not a major key.

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Where are newsies in your numbers? I see a lot of newsies on ebay. More it seems (proportionally) than nm 98. And you're comparing it to spiderman 1? Yes, it's less common than spiderman 1. Why is it a major key? And unlike nm 98 where there may have been a "liefield is poop," backlash (I am dubious that there was) what's not to love about 34? It's a cool book, which is why I bought it every time I saw it, which was a lot. It is "very common," it was never a worthless glut book like turok 1, I agree. 

Edited by the blob

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4 hours ago, kimik said:

The previous generations of collectors also placed a premium on 1st appearances and #1s, just like the current generation does. The only difference is that the current generation is not chasing story arcs/runs for one simple reason - classic stories and runs are now being reprinted in TPBs or omnibuses or digitally. There are more options to acquire the material now. Instead of buying story arcs book by book you do it all at once with reprints if you just want to read it. 

I think this is pretty much it. Everyone (1st appearance collectors, run collectors, and readers) were pretty much in the same market back in the day. Yes, some books were reprinted, but not all. If you wanted to read the Starline Silver Surfer run that led up to a huge crossover, you had to buy the comics. Now, readers aren't competing in the market for high-grade copies. And while books like X-Men 94 still appeals to run collectors, GSX #1 appeals to that market *and* first appearance collectors. Another factor perhaps in the X-Men situattion: when I started collecting comics in the late '80s, Claremont had been writing the book seemingly forever, and would continue to write it for a few more years. X-Men 94 (not Giant Size) was his debut on the title. (It's interesting how obvious they were trying to make X-Men the "international" team from reading GSX, where it wasn't blatant in Claremont's writing, IMO.) After Claremont left, I think the appeal of his first issue may have waned a bit.

Even if Silver Surfer 34 had far fewer copies printed than other big keys of the era, we're still talking about an era where a ton of copies were printed, so there are still plenty to be had, in a diminishing collector's market. I can say that when I sold my copies of Thanos Quest before Infinity War, I was happy with the prices.

Part of the thing might be that, even after stories became available to read in many other formats, older collectors have been conditioned to enjoy the hunt for books they needed to buy to read the story. Younger collectors never had that, so there's not that thrill for them of finding a book they need for the run (especially in the age of the internet).

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4 hours ago, divad said:

I don't disagree, but there seems to be much more speculation and profiteering currently, together with the associated chest-puffing. :whistle:

Remember the late 80s/early 90s when people were ordering the chromium #1s by the long box as a retirement plan, and every sportscard dealer was speculating/selling comics as well? Today's speculation and profiteering pales in comparison. lol

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1 minute ago, kimik said:

 

Remember the late 80s/early 90s when people were ordering the chromium #1s by the long box as a retirement plan, and every sportscard dealer was speculating/selling comics as well? Today's speculation and profiteering pales in comparison. lol

No, I was out of the hobby then - having kids, working, divorcing and partying (not necessarily in that order) :bigsmile: (Lucky Me) (thumbsu

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16 minutes ago, divad said:

No, I was out of the hobby then - having kids, working, divorcing and partying (not necessarily in that order) :bigsmile: (Lucky Me) (thumbsu

 

I was in the mid to late teens during that time and it was a glorious to be a young collector/speculator. Buy a box of cards for $20, sell the hot rookies and chase cards for a nice 3-10x on your initial investment, and then do it all over again. There was a short print hockey card run, OPC Premiere, that did not take off at first and I was actually buying boxes for $10 apiece. Within a year packs were selling for $10-$20 apiece. lol 

Comics were the same - the day Supes #75 came out it was selling for up to $150 CDN locally. Stores were ordering the latest McFarlane/Lee/Leifeld/etc. hot artist book for $0.50 and then be selling it by the case for $2-$5 within two weeks. Stores were making a killing back then due to the low cost per book and way higher demand. Talking to the couple of LCS owners still around from back then, they were able to turn profits into multiples of keys that they sold off to make ends meet and survive during the late 90s/early 00s when the comic market crashed. 

Edited by kimik

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I also don't disagree with your premise and also think it is sad. I Just don't think SS 34 was a great example. The judas contract NTT books outside of 44 may be better ones. The mcp weapon x books? (Although that may be more about quantity). Heck, Frank millers DD run outside the keys? 

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15 hours ago, Hamlet said:

Plenty of people are buying classic storyline comics, just not at extremely high price points.  I think people have just gotten so crazy with the keys that the rational pricing of everything else looks really cheap.  However, it only looks really cheap in comparison.  If you didn’t know how much keys go for, I think most people would say that the classic storylines go for pretty good money.  

I just sold a set of Kraven’s Last Hunt for $65.  They were nice enough books, but none of them were above VF+.  That’s $10+ a book for stuff that has never been hard to come by.    People are actually paying money for all of the issues of the original Secret Wars, not just #8.  It’s not huge money, but books that were always dollar box books are now moving at say $5/each.  A VGish copy of FF 51 probably goes for ~$25. That seems like decent money for a super common lower grade SA book.  

If all of the classic storyline books went for the kind of money the super hot keys are going for we could all sell our collections and retire.  There is just so much of all of this stuff out there that crazy prices can’t be sustained.  It’s not that demand is low, it’s just that there is supply to match it.  There are plenty of books to go around at reasonable prices.

Agree!!!  Thankfully there are still people looking for classic stories. Had someone pull a set of Crisis on Infinite Earths and then ask for Secret Wars issues (not 8) at a recent show. A different person bought my Kingdom Come 1-4 set.

Thought this group would enjoy this collector https://collectinsure.com/collectors-corner
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Maybe this is a good time to buy 2d apps? nm 88 seems silly cheap. All star 59.  X-force 2 as well, but there are a lot of those. I always though asm 135 was a sleeper. Not a cheap book tho, but you can get a nice presentable  copy for under $40 that would be over $1k if a 129.

Edited by the blob

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On 11/12/2019 at 1:58 PM, divad said:

They killed Thanos???

 

 

 

:roflmao:

Yeah, seriously, for 40 years the guy would resurrect every 8-12 or so years. In the movies that means a 2-3 year break. So much back story they can do before they even resurrect him. Plus, now he is with his love, death. Not to mention, time travel messes everything up. How many alternate timeline thanosi are there? Did cap step on tve wrong butterfly when having babies with Peggy? Does kang need to revive Tony to save future earth and this revives thanos?

Edited by the blob

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On 11/12/2019 at 12:36 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

True....and Calculus was an eye-opener, because everything finally started to come together....but how do you account for the fact that previous generations of collectors managed to figure these things out?

X-Men #94 vs. GSXM #1 is a perfect example of that...

Gsxm1 has been more than 94 for a long time. I just looked at my 2001 guide and it was $900 vs. $750 in top grade. Dunno when the change happened as neither was a book I followed so closely. 94 seemed a little less common? Obviously that's just a guide and cgc was just starting and you couldn't say ebay was "market" just then, true. And while 94 is certainly very important, its mainly the start of a writing run on the book and a new team in the regular series, one that had already been introduced. How often do "new team" or "1st of a great writing run" books command a premium like 94 does? And I agree, when I was a kid we were more excited About 94, but I have no idea why. 

Edited by the blob

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