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Double Cover Signature Authentication Problem!!
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15 posts in this topic

So I have an interesting problem and question for anyone who might have more experience than I do with getting signatures witnessed by CGC. I went to New York Comic Con last month and purchased AMS #797 Third Printing/Comicxposure edition, with cover art by Clayton Crain. I went to Crain's booth with a CGC witness to have the book signed. There was also another CGC witness already manning Crain's booth for signatures. When I was getting the book signed, we all noticed that there was a second interior cover, and I asked if Crain could sign both the outside cover and the interior second cover. He said he yes, and both CGC witnesses watched as he signed both covers. They all told me that the double cover and double signature would likely increase the book's value. Anyway, the CGC witness who accompanied me to the booth signed the witness card and, I'm pretty sure, noted that the artist had signed both covers. I took the book, now enclosed and sealed in the CGC polybag with the witness card, back to the CGC booth to be submitted along with a few other books. I filled out the submission form and handed it to the CGC person to review and have it signed, etc. The CGC person looked everything over, including the witness card, filled out the rest of the submission form and said everything looked good and handed me my copy.

A month later, I received the slabbed book back, but instead of a gold label, it had the Signature Qualified Grade gold label with a green stripe! The notes said "Signed by Clayton Crain on 10/6/19" and "Name Written on Interior Cover in Marker"!! I was shocked. When I called CGC for an explanation, they told me that my submission form did not indicate that the book was signed on the interior cover by the artist. I was appalled. I told them that the submission form clearly indicated that the book had been signed by Clayton Crain and that no one - not the two CGC witnesses nor the CGC booth person - mentioned anything to me about having to make a special notation or write anything else on the submission form. All the CGC people who were there had seen exactly what happened with the double cover signatures and said everything about my submission was fine. CGC are supposed to be the professionals and I relied on them to get my book properly signed and witnessed. Shouldn't they be responsible for making sure that this book received the right label? So, do you guys think that this was my mistake and that CGC is right to give me the qualified label, or should they honor their responsibilities and correct their mistake? Thanks in advance for your honest feedback!

IMG_1420.jpg

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I think you should talk to CGC as the witness was there.. its a witnessed signature you should get the green for a "unwitnessed" sig when the rep and the witness person authenticated it. 

100% talk to CGC again.. 

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2 hours ago, DedalusMan said:

Thanks for the support! I have submitted a request to have this reviewed by the Signature Series department and will post an update if anything comes of it.

You should also document literally every transaction and interaction with a time line and a narrative.  Include all paperwork, pictures, emails, names, texts, etc of everyone you encountered for the purpose of this situation.  Lay it all out explicitly (devoid of emotion), as you would for a legal case, and provide to CGC parties.. 

This could be useful for the following reasons:

1.  In the extremely unlikely case of litigation.

2.  So that you or CGC can help identify where in the process there may have been a lapse or error made.

3.  To let CGC know you're serious.

4.  To keep you from making a confusing misstatement by accident.

5.  To help CGC improve the process in the future so this type of thing doesn't happen again.

6.  So CGC can contact the appropriate people to collect facts.

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UPDATE! I finally received an email response from the Signature Series department, and they said they would correct the label at no cost to reflect the signature on the interior (second) cover! Specifically, they wrote: "The graders will review the book and the description/designation will be determined after they review it, but the book will receive a yellow label, not green." Hopefully, this means the book will now be properly graded as a signed double cover. I am keeping my fingers crossed and will post an update when I receive the corrected label.

Thanks for everyone's input and suggestions.

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24 minutes ago, DedalusMan said:

UPDATE! I finally received an email response from the Signature Series department, and they said they would correct the label at no cost to reflect the signature on the interior (second) cover! Specifically, they wrote: "The graders will review the book and the description/designation will be determined after they review it, but the book will receive a yellow label, not green." Hopefully, this means the book will now be properly graded as a signed double cover. I am keeping my fingers crossed and will post an update when I receive the corrected label.

Thanks for everyone's input and suggestions.

For the record - when people tell you that multiple signatures from the same person or artist will help the value, they are wrong. At best, it won't hurt the value, and at worst someone that otherwise would be interested will not be interested because of the duplicated signature.  The effect is lessened in this case because only signature is visible.

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25 minutes ago, seanfingh said:

For the record - when people tell you that multiple signatures from the same person or artist will help the value, they are wrong. At best, it won't hurt the value, and at worst someone that otherwise would be interested will not be interested because of the duplicated signature.  The effect is lessened in this case because only signature is visible.

Interesting, though I don't know why would anyone get multiple signatures from the same artist unless there was a valid reason - like a double cover. And, in my case, Clayton Crain signed the interior cover with his "signature" signature (just "Crain") that he uses on his published covers (see attached photo), so it's not just a duplicate signature. The problem is that no one can see the interior signature once the book is slabbed.

scans_20191120_140026_0001a.jpg

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More good news! CGC's SS department notified me today that "the label has been corrected"! They even sent me a photo of the interior double cover, signed by Clayton Crane. Of course, I still don't have an image of the actual label itself, but this must mean that the book will now get a yellow SS label (instead of a qualified yellow/green label) indicating it has a double cover and that both covers are signed, don't you think??

AMS 797 Interior Cover Signed.jpg

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1 minute ago, DedalusMan said:

More good news! CGC's SS department notified me today that "the label has been corrected"! They even sent me a photo of the interior double cover, signed by Clayton Crane. Of course, I still don't have an image of the actual label itself, but this must mean that the book will now get a yellow SS label (instead of a qualified yellow/green label) indicating it has a double cover and that both covers are signed, don't you think??

Good to hear that it appears CGC has made this right.

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49 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Good to hear that it appears CGC has made this right.

Yea, CGC did me right, after all, lol. But it wasn't easy. The first rep I spoke with went hard line on me, and said it was my fault that I did not properly mark the submission form, despite everything else (2 CGC witnesses, reliance on CGC to review the submission thoroughly, etc. etc.). The second rep I spoke with (because I realized the first rep was just wrong wrong wrong), had more sympathy but said his hands were tied. I asked him to check with the Signature Series people, but he said I should contact them myself and ask them to review the submission. So I did and after explaining what happened they actually listened and fixed this problem.

I just got this update from CGC SS: "This book is receiving the yellow Signature Series label, and the notation on the label reads: SIGNED BY CLAYTON CRAIN ON 10/6/19 COVER & INTERIOR COVER." 

Woo-hoo! Not a double cover (not even sure if there's a difference, or if the interior cover was a rare production anomaly, but whatever), but I think this is as good as it's going to get for me.

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On 11/25/2019 at 2:03 PM, DedalusMan said:

Yea, CGC did me right, after all, lol. But it wasn't easy. The first rep I spoke with went hard line on me, and said it was my fault that I did not properly mark the submission form, despite everything else (2 CGC witnesses, reliance on CGC to review the submission thoroughly, etc. etc.). The second rep I spoke with (because I realized the first rep was just wrong wrong wrong), had more sympathy but said his hands were tied. I asked him to check with the Signature Series people, but he said I should contact them myself and ask them to review the submission. So I did and after explaining what happened they actually listened and fixed this problem.

I just got this update from CGC SS: "This book is receiving the yellow Signature Series label, and the notation on the label reads: SIGNED BY CLAYTON CRAIN ON 10/6/19 COVER & INTERIOR COVER." 

Woo-hoo! Not a double cover (not even sure if there's a difference, or if the interior cover was a rare production anomaly, but whatever), but I think this is as good as it's going to get for me.

hopefully they fix that newton ring on it as well.. 

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2 hours ago, Krismusic said:

hopefully they fix that newton ring on it as well.. 

Lol, me too! In fact, this was part of a 6 book submission (all Clayton Crane signature series), and all but one had newton rings. What I don't get is that I just received back additional sets of 4 (Artgerm) and 10 (Campbell) book submissions, and none of them had any newton ring problems at all! If the rings were an unavoidable, but random, occurrence, then you would think each set would have roughly the same proportion of slabs with and without the rings. The fact that one set all had rings and other sets had none leads me to suspect that it may depend on who is doing the slabbing and/or if there is a defective batch of holders in CGC's inventory. CGC should really look into this problem and fix it, because it is clearly fixable.

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