"You're gonna let that bother you?" 1 1

[ADAMANTIUM]

5 minutes ago, comics4all said:

22 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I don't mean to BE bothersome...

 

This is not a sentence!

 i still meant it though! 

[Hollywood1892]

22 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I know muffin about no muffins  

Except I like blueberry, and there is muffin you can blue about it!

 

[divad]

Don't bother me while I'm eating my muffin . . .

 

[NoMan]

14 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Oh and "You're going to let that bother you?"

 

I believe he died and his corpse was found in a clothing donation basket where he was sleeping to keep warm.  
 

beyond sad

[Bookery]

15 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

Now let's talk brick and mortar because that is the discussion here.  You admit that you are the exception as your shop is very unusual.  You are based in Ohio? (I looked up Bookery online - If I am wrong I apologize.)  Dealers around here have remarked even on these very boards that finding collections are becoming harder and harder.  In the tri-state area more collections are being parsed out online than through a dealer.  And wouldn't they?  Please explain to me why I would EVER want to sell the majority of my collection to YOU?  If I sell it myself, I get current value / FMV less 10% fees if I sell it on eBay or consign it to comiclink or comicconnect or Heritage or Mycomicshop or Pedigree (ewww but whatever).  If I sell it to you... will you give me 80%?

80%?  Probably not, though it's possible if I have a waiting want-list for it.

15 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

No? okay... 70%... 

Yes.  70-75% is fairly typical what I would pay for serious keys or large-dollar books.  Of course, people rarely sell just one or two big books.  They have a mix... keys, mid-interest books, dogs, dollar-stock, etc.  Then, you have to figure what it is worth as a whole.  Moreover, you are not going to get 90% value on eBay.  Unless it's a big item, they'll take more than that, plus there are PayPal fees (or credit card, if you take them).  On Heritage, unless you are consigning a major collection, you will generally get 66% of the final price (after buyer and seller commissions).  I don't recall all of the breakdowns with the other auction houses, but whatever it is, you still have to pay shipping and insurance to get the books to them.  Plus time.  If you are retired and have the time to mail out all of these books, deal with returns, etc., and you don't value that time for anything else, that's fine.  Do what you enjoy.  Most people, especially selling large collections or estates, don't have that luxury.  I published my first two pulp guides myself.  I made far more money doing that than I ever would going through a publisher.  But mailing out 1,000+ books all over the world was a time-consuming nightmare.  Now I'm going through a publishing house.  Less money, but more time, and time is money (and sanity).

15 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

You see where I am going here?   More people each year realize this.  Amazon, eBay, Facebook, and many others are taking to network television to advertise their marketplaces for people to see online.  If you were a newer small business owner, you should be scared.   The outlook does not look very bright for you.  After 35 years though you have your customer base and established word of mouth. I am also sure you are savvy enough to not continue to be like everyone else was and you do your own thing.  This is good... however, as you said, you are an exception. 

Brick and mortar is dying all around.  Each year fewer people go to the stores.  Malls are drying up.  Chain stores are contracting rather than expanding. This is not an opinion.  This is an overall fact. This past year, the Department of Commerce revealed that for the first time ever internet commerce surpassed brick and mortar commerce.  Why is it so wrong to say that Comic Book Stores will last while everyone else is slowly disappearing?  Comic Book Stores are THAT special?  Seriously?

Of course Brick & Mortar is drying up.  Who would deny that?  But there's a difference from posting commentary on that reality, and championing it.  Why would you recommend to people that they not have as many options as possible?  Now, I come on here and defend comic shops, but in reality I know historically most such operations have been abysmal.  They have been run by hobbyists and not business people.  And I would never recommend that anyone start a new comic shop business now.  It's too late to start from the beginning.  But I'm guessing since so many have been weeded out, a higher percentage of those shops that still exist and have been around awhile are often because they are doing something right.

[Bookery]

15 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Excellent summation of the state of commerce as we head into the 3rd decade of the 21st century. 

Nobody is denying the reality of physical stores heading forward.  But that doesn't mean it's a good thing.  A nation of morbidly obese shut-ins ordering everything online and fusing with their sofas may be the inevitable future of the planet, but I'm not sure it's something to cheer about.  One should celebrate those who buck the trend in a professional manner precisely because that experience will someday no longer be.

15 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I suspect that, in 20-30 years, there will no longer be "dealers" of pretty much anything in the way we recognize it now.

 

Everybody's a dealer.  If you sell on eBay, you're a dealer, at least for the duration of that transaction.  Period.  And ALL dealers have costs and overhead.  The fact that many here don't understand that doesn't make it less true.

15 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

What B&M stores should be doing is making themselves more, not less, attractive to buyers.

Full agreement.

15 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

But too many price their material as if they're running museums, don't care for their stock, and dare potential customers to knock the chips off their shoulders. Who needs it? 

If I want to buy a Hulk #181, why would I take the time, effort, and expense of driving to your store and spending $5,000 on it when I can get virtually the same thing online for $3800? 

If you spent $4700 on it...that's your problem. It means you don't know how to compete, and don't belong in business. And why on earth would I want to buy something raw from you, only to have it come back as restored, and then you give me the tiniest hint of pushback when I want to return it because I paid the UNrestored price, or worse, have you view me with suspicion? No thanks.

Again, I'm sure there are plenty of places like that.  Condemn them... out them here if their offences are egregious enough.  What I dislike is the tendency on these Boards to treat all shops as if they are the same.  All all hamburgers the same?  Are all pizzas the same?  And the whole eBay mythology gets wearisome.  Where are all of these magical eBay deals?  When I look there all I ever see is over 90% of the items priced (significantly) higher than I would ever think to put on them here in the store.  If the price differential were to the degree you suggest, then you wouldn't be able to buy anything on eBay, because I would have already bought it all up.  And fewer and fewer items on eBay are even auctions.  Most are BIN for outrageous list prices.  As for auction houses?  While I virtually never find anything to buy on eBay, I do buy from the big auctions frequently.  Why?  Because I can get bargains there (particularly on lots).  Which means whoever consigned it to the auction house got less for it than I would have paid... far less, when taking the commissions into account.

 

15 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Use your purchasing power to make good purchases that you can turn for a profit, rather than sitting on it for 10 years because you have too much sunk into it. Compete, like everyone else has to, or go out of business where you belong.

Would seem like common sense, but then again... on these boards dealers are placed in an impossible situation.  As Buzetta points out, he expects 80% when selling to a dealer (in a post a couple of weeks back, he suggested he wouldn't sell for less than 90%).  Then, if said dealer pays that and then prices his book to make a profit, the dealer is a crooked gouger who should be avoided like the plague.  If the dealer makes a "good purchase" such as you demand above, then he is a crook cheating collectors and should be outed and avoided like the plague.  And all the while nobody seems to realize that all of these "great buys" they are finding on eBay or at the auction houses are often the same books from the same dealers who own those same shops that are so denigrated.

15 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The days of the middleman may be over for good.

If you sell the item yourself, unless you do it out of the trunk of your car in a parking lot somewhere, you are the middleman.  In any online transaction, the only ones guaranteed to make a profit are eBay, PayPal, the auction houses, and the post office.  You are under the same overhead and time vs. efficiency challenges as any shop owner.

[Buzzetta]

To any mods reading this in case any drama llamas reported anything, this is not an argument.  This is actually a good conversation that I am enjoying having.   No need to moderate here.  Bookery brings an interesting insight to the conversation. 

10 hours ago, Bookery said:

80%?  Probably not, though it's possible if I have a waiting want-list for it.  Yes.  70-75% is fairly typical what I would pay for serious keys or large-dollar books.

Most dealers, especially around here are not paying 80% of a keys value.  Most are paying 50% cash and "more" in trade.  I did a little experiment this summer and took a Hulk 181 to two shops around the South Shore of LI this summer to see what the going rate was.  A friend challenged me on why not just sell it to a store instead of selling it myself.  So, yeah, to anyone around LI that had a Hulk 181 and an FF48 come in, you were visited by "Buzzetta".  Another store offered me around 40% on the FF48.  Hulk 181 was a 9.0.  FF48 was a 7.0.   Now, I wonder what someone like Bob Storms would have offered but I don't know if I could really consider him since Highgrade is an online entity and not a physical brick and mortar. 

SIDE NOTE TO ANYONE READING... The Hulk 181 and FF48 are not for sale.  Don't bother contacting me about them. 

This may be different though in Ohio as NY rents and taxes are so high I can see why NY and LI stores may not be willing to invest so much in a higher value book like that. 

10 hours ago, Bookery said:

Moreover, you are not going to get 90% value on eBay.  Unless it's a big item, they'll take more than that, plus there are PayPal fees (or credit card, if you take them). 

 

Which, by your own math, is STILL more than a dealer will give you.  

10 hours ago, Bookery said:

Plus time.  If you are retired and have the time to mail out all of these books, deal with returns, etc., and you don't value that time for anything else, that's fine.  Do what you enjoy.  Most people, especially selling large collections or estates, don't have that luxury.  I published my first two pulp guides myself.  I made far more money doing that than I ever would going through a publisher.  But mailing out 1,000+ books all over the world was a time-consuming nightmare. 

In response to my post you are saying that it is time consuming and are likening it to a "time consuming nightmare."  In response to RMA's post you say, "Nobody is denying the reality of physical stores heading forward.  But that doesn't mean it's a good thing.  A nation of morbidly obese shut-ins ordering everything online and fusing with their sofas may be the inevitable future of the planet, but I'm not sure it's something to cheer about."  So in one sense you are kind of saying, "don't go through all that trouble, sell to a dealer it's time consuming and easier."  In another breath you are considering that it might not be the best thing to take the easiest route. 

You are selling a massive amount of books compared to an average collector.   It really does not take a lot of effort to wrap up a few comic books correctly and drop them off at the post office.   I have a full time job and still I have time to wrap and ship things out when stuff sells.   

10 hours ago, Bookery said:

Of course Brick & Mortar is drying up.  Who would deny that?  But there's a difference from posting commentary on that reality, and championing it.  Why would you recommend to people that they not have as many options as possible?  

Who said I am championing it?  I said it is kind of sad that comic stores are closing.  However, that does not mean that I am to lose money to keep a store afloat.  I am not recommending that they do not have options.   In fact I am telling them that they themselves have MANY options other than a comic store.   The days of having nothing to do with your comics other than host a garage sale or return them to the comic store to cash in are long over.   

10 hours ago, Bookery said:

Now, I come on here and defend comic shops, but in reality I know historically most such operations have been abysmal.  They have been run by hobbyists and not business people.  And I would never recommend that anyone start a new comic shop business now.  It's too late to start from the beginning.  But I'm guessing since so many have been weeded out, a higher percentage of those shops that still exist and have been around awhile are often because they are doing something right.

Oh, I definitely agree with that.  However, I would be curious to know something.  As stores close, are you picking up their customers?   Your store thrives on other stores closing.  Now, obviously you will not get the entirety of a closing store's customer base for a variety of reasons.  However, you will get some and those are added customers that will continue to bring in revenue.   Sometimes the way to succeed, as history has demonstrated is not always to be better, but to outlast the competition. 

Now I want to add to some of your responses to RMA. 

When RMA says the days of the middleman are over, I think he is reflecting more along the idea of a traditional retail chain is now broken.  In the old days, the store gets their product from the manufacturer and sells to the public.  The manufacturer never sold directly to the consumer.  eBay is not a middleman here because eBay is not actually buying my items to resell to a consumer.  They are acting as a facilitator which may seem similar but it not as eBay does not take possession.   Facebook marketplace and eBay allow me to correct directly to the consumer.  I believe that is what he is talking about. 

On a side note...ha.. selling out of the trunk of my car paid off my college books.  I remember selling Power Rangers out of my trunk to parents of insatiable children to raise money for my textbooks.  Good times. 

I hope that you do not find my tone belittling or condescending.  Conversation is good especially as I am learning here how business practices vary around the nation. 

[kav]

11 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

To any mods reading this in case any drama llamas reported anything, this is not an argument.  This is actually a good conversation that I am enjoying having.   No need to moderate here.  Bookery brings an interesting insight to the conversation. 

Most dealers, especially around here are not paying 80% of a keys value.  Most are paying 50% cash and "more" in trade.  I did a little experiment this summer and took a Hulk 181 to two shops around the South Shore of LI this summer to see what the going rate was.  A friend challenged me on why not just sell it to a store instead of selling it myself.  So, yeah, to anyone around LI that had a Hulk 181 and an FF48 come in, you were visited by "Buzzetta".  Another store offered me around 40% on the FF48.  Hulk 181 was a 9.0.  FF48 was a 7.0.   Now, I wonder what someone like Bob Storms would have offered but I don't know if I could really consider him since Highgrade is an online entity and not a physical brick and mortar. 

SIDE NOTE TO ANYONE READING... The Hulk 181 and FF48 are not for sale.  Don't bother contacting me about them. 

This may be different though in Ohio as NY rents and taxes are so high I can see why NY and LI stores may not be willing to invest so much in a higher value book like that. 

Which, by your own math, is STILL more than a dealer will give you.  

In response to my post you are saying that it is time consuming and are likening it to a "time consuming nightmare."  In response to RMA's post you say, "Nobody is denying the reality of physical stores heading forward.  But that doesn't mean it's a good thing.  A nation of morbidly obese shut-ins ordering everything online and fusing with their sofas may be the inevitable future of the planet, but I'm not sure it's something to cheer about."  So in one sense you are kind of saying, "don't go through all that trouble, sell to a dealer it's time consuming and easier."  In another breath you are considering that it might not be the best thing to take the easiest route. 

You are selling a massive amount of books compared to an average collector.   It really does not take a lot of effort to wrap up a few comic books correctly and drop them off at the post office.   I have a full time job and still I have time to wrap and ship things out when stuff sells.   

Who said I am championing it?  I said it is kind of sad that comic stores are closing.  However, that does not mean that I am to lose money to keep a store afloat.  I am not recommending that they do not have options.   In fact I am telling them that they themselves have MANY options other than a comic store.   The days of having nothing to do with your comics other than host a garage sale or return them to the comic store to cash in are long over.   

Oh, I definitely agree with that.  However, I would be curious to know something.  As stores close, are you picking up their customers?   Your store thrives on other stores closing.  Now, obviously you will not get the entirety of a closing store's customer base for a variety of reasons.  However, you will get some and those are added customers that will continue to bring in revenue.   Sometimes the way to succeed, as history has demonstrated is not always to be better, but to outlast the competition. 

Now I want to add to some of your responses to RMA. 

When RMA says the days of the middleman are over, I think he is reflecting more along the idea of a traditional retail chain is now broken.  In the old days, the store gets their product from the manufacturer and sells to the public.  The manufacturer never sold directly to the consumer.  eBay is not a middleman here because eBay is not actually buying my items to resell to a consumer.  They are acting as a facilitator which may seem similar but it not as eBay does not take possession.   Facebook marketplace and eBay allow me to correct directly to the consumer.  I believe that is what he is talking about. 

On a side note...ha.. selling out of the trunk of my car paid off my college books.  I remember selling Power Rangers out of my trunk to parents of insatiable children to raise money for my textbooks.  Good times. 

I hope that you do not find my tone belittling or condescending.  Conversation is good especially as I am learning here how business practices vary around the nation. 

How much you want for Hulk 181 and FF48?
Ps Dude drops trou on A train look over at Buzz "you gonna let that bother you?"

[Coverless 9.8]

"Hey, buddy, if you want mints, the toothpicks are flavored!" 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Coverless 9.8
Punctuation

[Bookery]

11 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

I hope that you do not find my tone belittling or condescending.  Conversation is good especially as I am learning here how business practices vary around the nation. 

Not at all.  I enjoy your posts as well.  And to be fair... some of my frustrations are precisely because I know I have to face the inevitable collapse of B&Ms.  I really don't enjoy the online-ordering experience.  I do it because I often have to, and usually the  only for odds and ends items for the house or business.  But for most new generations, they prefer it.  Traffic is a hassle (and dangerous with so much texting-while-driving... I used to find myself behind an obviously drunk driver once every year or two.  Now I come across people swerving into my lane or doing other distractions while on their phones nearly every day!).  And you have correctly pointed out that the people-skills in many businesses are now lacking (not just comic shops... it's everywhere).  So I may not like where things are heading, but I do understand it.  I'll respond to some specific points shortly.

[Bookery]

11 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

This may be different though in Ohio as NY rents and taxes are so high I can see why NY and LI stores may not be willing to invest so much in a higher value book like that.

It may also be because they don't have to.  In high population areas they may have access to so many collections that they can afford to pay low knowing another collection will be in shortly-?

11 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

You are selling a massive amount of books compared to an average collector.   It really does not take a lot of effort to wrap up a few comic books correctly and drop them off at the post office.   I have a full time job and still I have time to wrap and ship things out when stuff sells.   

That's probably true.  We are, in much of these discussions, probably talking about two different scenarios.  Many of the collections I get are from people who need to move a quantity of material in a short period of time.  But, as I said before, if you have the time, then it makes sense to do it your way.

11 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

Oh, I definitely agree with that.  However, I would be curious to know something.  As stores close, are you picking up their customers?   Your store thrives on other stores closing.  Now, obviously you will not get the entirety of a closing store's customer base for a variety of reasons.  However, you will get some and those are added customers that will continue to bring in revenue.   Sometimes the way to succeed, as history has demonstrated is not always to be better, but to outlast the competition. 

Things are very weird around here.  The opposite is happening.  There are more stores now within a 50-mile radius of me than other time in my 35 years in business.  A new one pops up about every year, lately.  Most don't do serious business in collectibles, but deal in new comics, toys, and games.  This is despite the fact that new comic sales keep slipping every year.  But as has been pointed out... most comic shop owners aren't businessmen.  The lure of trying to make a living with their hobby supersedes the logic of studying market dynamics.  Plus, many of them have outside sources to support them... wealthy families, working spouses, etc.  Now, many of these shops don't last long per se... but they never go out of business.  This paradox is explained as such-- the original owner finds out after 2 years he can't make a go of it, and folds up.  But almost immediately one of his customers will agree to buy the operation, quit his job, and live the dream!  Rinse and repeat.  Often. 

[Transplant]

14 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

All I heard is that you have a Hulk 181 for sale.  Shoot me a pm. 

[Buzzetta]

17 minutes ago, Transplant said:

All I heard is that you have a Hulk 181 for sale.  Shoot me a pm. 

I own 3 copies. 

• CGC 9.0
• CGC 7.5 that's never been pressed
• A Raw copy that would get a married cover designation even though it is not married.  When I was a kid I didn't like the way it was bound so I rebound it and flattened it and redid it myself. 

None are for sale.  

 

[Transplant]

1 minute ago, Buzzetta said:

I own 3 copies. 

• CGC 9.0
• CGC 7.5 that's never been pressed
• A Raw copy that would get a married cover designation even though it is not married.  When I was a kid I didn't like the way it was bound so I rebound it and flattened it and redid it myself. 

None are for sale.  

 

You're tricking us.  You said you took one and got offers.  

[Buzzetta]

2 minutes ago, Transplant said:

You're tricking us.  You said you took one and got offers.  

I took one, not all. I wasn't actually going to sell, I did it to make a point.

 

I am presently sitting here waiting to start a meeting.  If I thought the hanging light would support me I would seriously consider hanging myself... to make a point.  

Edited November 26, 2019 by Buzzetta

[Buzzetta]

12 hours ago, Bookery said:

It may also be because they don't have to.  In high population areas they may have access to so many collections that they can afford to pay low knowing another collection will be in shortly-?

That's probably true.  We are, in much of these discussions, probably talking about two different scenarios.  Many of the collections I get are from people who need to move a quantity of material in a short period of time.  But, as I said before, if you have the time, then it makes sense to do it your way.

They really don't though.  Up here, as have been admitted by others and one comic dealer, there are fewer collections walking through the doors.  There are more people up here each year that are taking the initiative and selling their belongings on their own.   

12 hours ago, Bookery said:

Things are very weird around here.  The opposite is happening.  There are more stores now within a 50-mile radius of me than other time in my 35 years in business.  A new one pops up about every year, lately.  Most don't do serious business in collectibles, but deal in new comics, toys, and games.  This is despite the fact that new comic sales keep slipping every year.  But as has been pointed out... most comic shop owners aren't businessmen.  The lure of trying to make a living with their hobby supersedes the logic of studying market dynamics.  Plus, many of them have outside sources to support them... wealthy families, working spouses, etc.  Now, many of these shops don't last long per se... but they never go out of business.  This paradox is explained as such-- the original owner finds out after 2 years he can't make a go of it, and folds up.  But almost immediately one of his customers will agree to buy the operation, quit his job, and live the dream!  Rinse and repeat.  Often. 

I think that we are seeing a lot of people opening up stores trying to cash in on the movie madness and I believe that many of them are squandering their financial health in doing so.   When my LCS decided he wanted to retire, as he is around 75, he asked if I would be interested in buying it.  He knows I am counting down the days to retirement.  (3,869 days).  I think he even threw a number out there which was lower than someone else offered him.  He really just wants out. I wasn't even listening.  As you stated, in the state of the industry, the projected outlook of the industry combined with Nassau County taxes, (ranked 5th highest in the nation as of April of 2018), I cannot imagine taking on a lease and operating a brick and mortar in the New York climate.  

One thing I have learned through this is that people are indeed very different.  Comics trends are varying between regions when it comes to who is a buyer and who is a seller and what they plan to do with their collections.   

 

However, with that said, if anyone is visiting New York, please check out our museums, venue, restaurants, parks, history, beaches, lighthouses, (the exchange, Fed Hall, Statue of Liberty, Brooklyn Bridge) before you go looking for comic shops.  There is way more to do here than look for old newsprint.  

 

[Bookery]

9 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

I think that we are seeing a lot of people opening up stores trying to cash in on the movie madness and I believe that many of them are squandering their financial health in doing so. 

Yep.  They think... "comic book movies are popular, therefore comic books must be popular... I'll open a shop-- it will be a goldmine!".  They don't research to know the two mediums have nothing to do with each other in terms of public demand.

9 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

However, with that said, if anyone is visiting New York, please check out our museums, venue, restaurants, parks, history, beaches, lighthouses, (the exchange, Fed Hall, Statue of Liberty, Brooklyn Bridge) before you go looking for comic shops.  There is way more to do here than look for old newsprint.  

I'd never survive in NY.  I find central Ohio to be too overpopulated!  If I could run a successful comic shop in the middle of Montana, I'd be happy (and who knows... with any luck the shop might actually be located over a goldmine!