• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

If Wolverine appeared in 2 panels of Hulk 180, then would it be his first appearance?
3 3

Started by kav,

192 posts in this topic

MR SigS

MR SigS

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

He's (somewhat) relevant on 1 of the 38 pages. But he sure does a good job standing around and scratching his butt (probably why he wears that overcoat :smirk:) in a few more panels!

Agreed it's ho hum, and certainly doesn't threaten X-Men 266 when it comes to significance or character development. As for when X-Fans and anyone else first became aware of him, only one issue qualifies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, HuddyBee said:

Was wondering how the ad in Action Comics 251 plays into this whole scenario. Would most consider it a cameo? Or simply just a curiosity not worth noting?

1130842449_ActionComics-251-16.jpg.e680e329e57cf2e61072a0daf94e9c62.jpg

As a kid growing up first collecting comics, as stated, they were collected to read. 'First appearances' weren't a thing, as opposed to reading the first story, which was how we gauged a new character. It would've simply been considered, "Oh that's cool, can't wait to read that." It's an AD.

Today, it's about finding someone who'll buy it. If you want to collect it, because you think it's cool, then by all means, go for it. If you want to buy it, so you can try and sell it to someone under the guise that it's the 'first appearance'... well I'm sure there's someone out there willing to spend that money. 

Technically, it's not what should be referred to as a first appearance or a cameo. It's an Advertisement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HuddyBee

HuddyBee

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Side point: A curiosity WORTH noting. Comic Book fans love to be aware of this kind of stuff.

I do agree with you. It is an ad. The only thing that makes me question it's placement is the similarity of this ad to an actual comic panel. It isn't just a pic of Supergirl. She's in a comic panel, and she has dialogue with Superman. She is interacting with the DC universe. This could easily be looked at as an aside, similar to Carnage's cameo in ASM 360. I don't consider ads cameos, as they aren't part of the story. However in this book, with Supergirl actually interacting with the DC universe and the world around it, as well as the ad being a comic panel, that view could change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HuddyBee said:

I do agree with you. It is an ad. The only thing that makes me question it's placement is the similarity of this ad to an actual comic panel. It isn't just a pic of Supergirl. She's in a comic panel, and she has dialogue with Superman. She is interacting with the DC universe. This could easily be looked at as an aside, similar to Carnage's cameo in ASM 360. I don't consider ads cameos, as they aren't part of the story. However in this book, with Supergirl actually interacting with the DC universe and the world around it, as well as the ad being a comic panel, that view could change.

As I've mentioned before, the reason it's "similar" to a comic panel is because it is the first panel from the 252 story. It's a preview of work done for the next issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HuddyBee

HuddyBee

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

As I've mentioned before, the reason it's "similar" to a comic panel is because it is the first panel from the 252 story. It's a preview of work done for the next issue.

Very curious, I didn't know that it actually was the panel from issue 252. I guess I'm going to head out and pick up a copy of 251 now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Heronext

Heronext

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, HuddyBee said:

However in this book, with Supergirl actually interacting with the DC universe and the world around it, as well as the ad being a comic panel, that view could change.

This could be considered an ad with advance art - with the same weight as an ad

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gambron23

Gambron23

Posted
Posted

Just wanted to add a fresh wrinkle to this conversation and certainly want to preface it by saying that I own copies of both 180 and 181 and love both books.

All the obvious things about the last page of Hulk 180 have been well stated including the often ignored fact that Wolvie actually speaks in 2 panels as opposed to just "appearing" in the final large, splashy panel. What I think is interesting and noteworthy (and something I NEVER hear in the various debates about the topic) is that on page 3 of the issue a Canadian Captain cryptically mentions the necessity to mobilize "Weapon X" in reaction to the Hulk being spotted in the Canadian wilderness. Thus for nearly the entire issue the mysterious Weapon X's presence looms as the reader awaits the inevitable reveal. I guess I discovered this because I actually READ the issues unlike many that engage in the debate, LoL. So to me the notion that Wolverine only "appears" on the last page or the now famous "Cameo in last panel" is completely inaccurate and flawed. Here's the page #3 from the issue.

Hulk_180_3.thumb.jpeg.e629f6e1cef9dfdcc64aa3e050b9bec0.jpeg

 

One last analogy is the 1963 Topps Pete Rose rookie card. As many are aware this card feature 4 tiny head shots of different rookies from the previous season. The 1964 Topps Pete Rose is his first solo card and is a gorgeous card with the All-Star Rookie cup etc. All of this said the 1963 Topps "Cameo" sells for multiples of the more attractive and "full appearance" 1964 card. 

And if there's any doubt one could always have a person who's never collected or read a comic in their life read both issues from cover to cover and then have them answer the question. I guess many people just accept what they're told without really assessing the information for themselves.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gatsby77

Gatsby77

Posted
Posted

Then there are instances that are just obviously wrong, whether due to intentional mis-information by Bob Overstreet or dealer manipulation.

Example: I'm glad Conan # 23 is (finally!) acknowledged as the first appearance of Red Sonja, whereas # 24 (her first cover appearance) was considered her first appearance for decades.

Why # 23?

By my count she appears in 26 panels spread over 6 pages -- covering two entirely different scenes that take place on different days - and she speaks / interacts with Conan in both scenes.

That's not a cameo - she's a major part of the story (and appears in close to 30% of the pages).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
musicmeta

musicmeta

Posted
Posted

I think it's up to us comic collectors to determine how many panels that become 1st "full"  appearance of a character.  "Probably?" at "least" two to be considered for it and go from there?
Don't think it's cut and dry on 1st "full" appearances. 
I would think a cover appearance carries some weight but then you have Amazing Spider-man #50 for the Kingpin not on the cover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Gambron23 said:

Just wanted to add a fresh wrinkle to this conversation and certainly want to preface it by saying that I own copies of both 180 and 181 and love both books.

All the obvious things about the last page of Hulk 180 have been well stated including the often ignored fact that Wolvie actually speaks in 2 panels as opposed to just "appearing" in the final large, splashy panel. What I think is interesting and noteworthy (and something I NEVER hear in the various debates about the topic) is that on page 3 of the issue a Canadian Captain cryptically mentions the necessity to mobilize "Weapon X" in reaction to the Hulk being spotted in the Canadian wilderness.

Welcome to the board!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, InfantTerrible said:

first appearance is first apperance!!! 

180 got robbed!!! biggest robbery of the century

 

Ahem

 

lufthansa-heist-robert-de-niro.png

high.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
3 3
Go to topic listing