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If Wolverine appeared in 2 panels of Hulk 180, then would it be his first appearance?
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192 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, To Be Announced said:

I disagree with this. #181 is his first full appearance. That's not puffery that's just stating a fact.

"First full appearance" is puffery when you are talking about a character with an earlier appearance that includes some character backstory, full costumed appearance of the character in a large panel (not hidden in shadows, head on tv monitor, etc.), the character announcing his name, and the publisher stating "Well now you know what ... er .... who Weapon X is, faithful one!"  

Edited by sfcityduck
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1 minute ago, To Be Announced said:

Nope, you're just too anal. 180 is a brief appearance and 181 is a full appearance. Pretty simple if you want it to be.

Nah, I'm not overhyped.  180 is a first appearance and 181 is a second appearance.  And that is the literal truth, all hype eliminated.

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On 11/25/2019 at 4:09 PM, kav said:

The logic has always been "well he only appears in one panel so it's a cameo".  Ok what about 2 panels?  3? 6?  2 pages?  What's the cutoff point?

I have both just to cover my butt....  (thumbsu

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5 minutes ago, To Be Announced said:

If you're defining "appearance" so rigidly/literally wouldn't his second appearance be in those in-house ads before 181 came out? 

I don't believe anyone but you defines appearance this way. Semantic pedantic. 

And I've read enough of your arguing posts to know that I should stop right now before I waste more time lol

180 is the first appearance. This isn't up for debate, he appears. 181 is first full story. Monetarily 181 has taken over, but when you see the character.. That's an appearance. 

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12 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

lol

What does the number 10 have to do with mutants?

"X" only is a Roman numeral when written.  Any confusion that "Weapon X" as written in Hulk 180 meant "Weapon Ten" was dispelled in X-Men 109 when Wolverine is called "Weapon X" in dialogue by "Weapon Alpha" (also a letter).  the notion "X" mean "10" is a much later retcon.  The back story in Hulk 180 continues as a key part of Wolverine's origin in GS 1 and which was spooled out slowly during the Claremont/Byrne run, including the intro of Weapon Alpha and Alpha Flight.

Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining X-Men #109

plot.jpg

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2 hours ago, To Be Announced said:

If you're defining "appearance" so rigidly/literally wouldn't his second appearance be in those in-house ads before 181 came out? 

 

House ads don't and never have counted as "appearances" to comic collectors.  Superman's first appearance has always been viewed as Action 1 by the comic collecting community even though there are house ads which predate that comic. When I was a kid in the 70s, we knew that Hulk 180 was Wolverine's first appearance, and some years it even was worth more than 181, but the 181 cover and greater focus on the character made 181 the more desirable book even back then before CGC came along.  Folks these days are so simplistically hype driven they don't seem to realize that the desirability (and value) of a book is dependent upon a lot of factors and "first appearance" is only one of them, and not necessarily the most important in some cases.

Edited by sfcityduck
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1 minute ago, sfcityduck said:

Folks these days are so simplistically hype driven they don't seem to realize that the desirability (and value) of a book is dependent upon a lot of factors and "first appearance" is only one of them, and not necessarily the most important is some cases.

It seems that people are so focused on the value of single issues that they don't realize desirability is the combined market for a book, not a single copy.

If Spawn #1 sells for $100 and there are 15,000 of them, that's $1,500,000.

If Malibu Sun #13 sells for $1,000 and there are 500 of them, that's $500,000.

The market for CGC graded copies of Spawn #1 are much, much higher in desirability than Malibu Sun #13, even if the price of a single book isn't.

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3 minutes ago, To Be Announced said:

According to your own definition they do Mr. Literal.

Uh ... no.  My definition is that an appearance has to be in the editorial content of the comic, and a house ad is not that.  And, really, that's the way it has been for the 60+ years of comic fandom.  But, go ahead and try to swim upstream if you want to.

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1 minute ago, To Be Announced said:

First full Wolverine is #181.

The photo in 180 definitely showed the whole character as well as name? Did you need a picture of his backside to be complete? It's a full appearance and I am unsure how in the heck you are struggling with this.

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3 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

180 

is

first

full

appearance

:screwy: It is abso:censored:lutely not!

The story is all about Hulk and Wendigo, not Wolverine. In Wolverine's very brief appearance, he might as well say "Buy the next issue!" because that's the only impact it has.

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CGC label should read like this:

180 = THE FIRST APPEARANCE OF WOLVERINE........FULL STOP, not brief appearance, not cameo bull****

181 nice first cover of WOLVERINE and HULK ....or something like that

At some point CGC will have to do this, to stop the injustice done to 180 and give it the full credit

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3 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

"X" only is a Roman numeral when written.  Any confusion that "Weapon X" as written in Hulk 180 meant "Weapon Ten" was dispelled in X-Men 109 when Wolverine is called "Weapon X" in dialogue by "Weapon Alpha" (also a letter).  the notion "X" mean "10" is a much later retcon.  The back story in Hulk 180 continues as a key part of Wolverine's origin in GS 1 and which was spooled out slowly during the Claremont/Byrne run, including the intro of Weapon Alpha and Alpha Flight.

I was mostly joking about the X = ten thing, though I'm well aware of Morrison's work.  The point was that 'X' can mean any number of things and wouldn't be automatically associated with Marvel's mutants, especially with their series being effectively dead at the time.

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6 minutes ago, InfantTerrible said:

CGC label should read like this:

180 = THE FIRST APPEARANCE OF WOLVERINE........FULL STOP, not brief appearance, not cameo bull****

181 nice first cover of WOLVERINE and HULK ....or something like that

At some point CGC will have to do this, to stop the injustice done to 180 and give it the full credit

181 is a "classic cover" and "first cover appearance of Wolverine"

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2 hours ago, Old Fashion PB and J said:

The photo in 180 definitely showed the whole character as well as name? Did you need a picture of his backside to be complete? It's a full appearance and I am unsure how in the heck you are struggling with this.

nothowitworks.gif.e83bb8e038f05c80832c757420277d75.gif

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18 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

181 is a "classic cover" and "first cover appearance of Wolverine"

Classic? 181 has an average cover that is well-known only because of what it covers.

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