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2019 - one month left...
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Started by Stefanomjr,

30 posts in this topic

Stefanomjr

Stefanomjr

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5 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

Not to be contrarian, but I don’t buy art on a clock either, if I can help it. Who truly cares if there’s a month left in the year?  We buy art because of the piece, not because we’re in a hurry, yeah?

Not been at this very long,  however,  I'd say most of this hobby is aspirational. So,  in that sense,  there are goals and "checklists" that people set out to complete... make more money,  be healthy,  stop smoking,  buy/ sell art... to that end,  ya gotta set a time period to assess your progress,  year over year.  And it's kinda fun. 

 

Otherwise,  yes,  you're 100% current.  😜

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ESeffinga

ESeffinga

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If that's the way you measure your success as a collector, by all means have at it.

I've been collecting for what is very quickly approaching the 3 decade mark, and I can tell you I've seen sooooooooo many new collectors come and go for setting exactly these kinds of metrics. It's comic collecting mentality, and frankly it's misplaced... at least in my personal experience.  The average lifespan of so many folks in the hobby tends to be right around the 5 or 6 year mark. People come in fast and furious, as they dump in new money, and convert other existing assets (generally comics) into OA. And after trying to buy up a streak, the realization sets in that this stuff is more about luck, staying tuned in, and being super self-critical and aware of personal tastes and preferences, having good connections and keeping the ear to the ground for what's coming up or letting folks know you are interested in certain things. The rest just comes as it comes. you can't put a calendar on it, because if you're looking for, let's say, Mazzucchelli DD piece and one pops up in December that you buy to tick a box... what happens when another pops up in January or February that you like more?

 

If the pressure for the "goal" isn't there, the cooler head often prevails, and maybe you are more likely to be sitting on the cashwhen the better example comes along. Is that a double edged sword? Sure. You could leave off the December piece and have nothing come along at all in 2020. And yet, my experience has always been there's ALWAYS something else that will come along. ALWAYS. Maybe not the Maz, but perhaps something that hits HUGE on the heartstrings. It's better to have the money at the ready, than just go through life ticking boxes. Not having artificial "goals", and understanding the important ones (that for most folks and scenarios have NOTHING to do with timelines), is where you tend to find the guys that hang in there for a long time, and the guys that burn out fast. If you are on a ticking clock (health issues or even paranoia), art can be a great outlet, but go into it eyes wide open. I'd reconsider collecting entirely if my lifespan was knowingly shortened. And I prefer to not go through life expecting doom around every corner.

Related in an unrelated sort of way, my wife and I went into the National Portrait Gallery sometime last year, and as we got over to the Presidental portrait portion of the gallery, we saw so many people walking in, marching directly over to a cattle line that had set up for people to go "see" the Kehinde Wiley portrait of Obama. What this mainly consisted of was people getting in a line that moved quickly, to get up to the portrait, take a selfie of themselves with the painting, an then leave the gallery. Bypassing 250+ of years of other portraiture throughout the museum, nevermind the other half of the building being the American Art Museum. And all the other material that was there on loan for the temp exhibitions at the time. I witnessed the same thing in the Met, when people would hit the Dali, the Wyeth, the Van Gogh. They all ticked off those boxes.  Got their selfie/instagram moments. It had very little to do with art, and more to do with portraying themselves a certain way to the world.

I'm not suggesting this is how any particular individual on this board "collects", but that is a type of comic OA collector, and collection. The look-at all-the-boxes-I've-ticked guy, that collects for name. Collects for book. Collects for character. But somehow in all that manages to forget to collect for quality, or even on occasion, collect for themselves. And my only point is to be aware of all this, and yourself, and your own tendencies.

I have my own collecting demons, I fight them every day. But I know their names. :)

 

 

Edited by ESeffinga
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MyNameIsLegion

MyNameIsLegion

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what you want, what you can afford, and what you can get are 3 different things. In this hobby you are doing well to get 2 out of the 3.  I find that "what you can get" is the most elusive, as competition and auctions, and sniping, and being connected have all conspired to make something that seemed plentiful much scarcer.  I used to see a ridiculous amount of bread and butter vintage panel pages at any dealers table or website in the late 90's to 2010, even as late as 2012.  Marvel art from the late 60's to early 90's is far and away the most difficult to find. I can get a Schaffenberger Suberboy page all day long, they're like Sad Sack art was in the late 90's. But Sal Buscema random late 70's anything? Fugettabowtit. 

It's also hard to shed that collectors mentality - It was easy to do with comics, get a run, a title, all appearances, keys, themes, whatever.  Doing that with art is expensive.  the worst thing you can do is settle for a lesser example of an artist just to "check the box" If you pick up a sketch or commission or prelim or a doodle on a napkin, even more so.  If it's not published, you are pizzing your money away.

 

Edited by MYNAMEISLEGION
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Rick2you2

Rick2you2

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1 hour ago, ESeffinga said:

I witnessed the same thing in the Met, when people would hit the Dali, the Wyeth, the Van Gogh. They all ticked off those boxes. 

I was very proud of the fact that I went to the Louvre and saw the exhibits in about 45 minutes. Of course, I was only about 15 years old at the time.

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Rick2you2

Rick2you2

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17 hours ago, Stefanomjr said:

What's the one piece of art or one artist you'd like an example from before end of month/ year/ decade? 

 

For me....the obvious Mazzucchelli BA 

For me, it's about the journey, not the destination. A good part of the fun is the hunt, as well as the comraderie. Things I very much wanted when I was trying to get them don't earn nearly the attention they used to.

Let's face it: we are just generally dealing with paper products and memories or wishes of memories. A little time won't matter. We still have our memories. 

The only downside of waiting is pricing--it mostly goes up. But, some things I used to want drop down on my interest list, along with my desire to buy them. So, that's not so bad either.

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ESeffinga

ESeffinga

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2 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I was very proud of the fact that I went to the Louvre and saw the exhibits in about 45 minutes. Of course, I was only about 15 years old at the time.

Pretty sure that was me too, though more like 12. By high school, I was really into drawing and art myself. I didn't appreciate everything I do now of course, but I did stop and look more carefully. But at 12, it was a junior high field trip (with lunch) in DC away from school with my friends, so hell yeah! Breeze through the exhibits and spend twice as long hanging out on the benches talking and laughing at stuff. :bigsmile:

Edited by ESeffinga
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vodou

vodou

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3 hours ago, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

Doing that with art is expensive.

I've long held that the best thing that ever happened to this hobby, even better than art returns beginning in the 1970s at the Big Two, was that one zero got added to the end of everything. With that came: respect. That extra zero meant that the largest swath of collectors had to re-jigger the (always false) assumption that you can have it all. Then it happened again (the zero). And yet again (the zero, again). Each new iteration of zero made every individual object significantly more precious than before and forced us all to appreciate what we already had -upon re-examination- that much more because none of us could fool ourselves any longer than you can have even most of it. That right there, more than anything else, explains seven decades of comic art history in a paragraph: 1960s to present -bigger prices, bigger respect (among ourselves, who cares what non-collectors think!)

Now in 2019 and heading into 2020, very few people can afford anything that isn't new or rather unloved...in bulk. Beyond that, talking vintage of even two decades back we're all facing budgetary concerns to a greater or lesser extent (even Jim Halperin can't win every single six and seven figure item in every category he collects in!)

Is this such a bad thing? Most would reply, "yes!!" but I would not. Look at the fifteen or twenty pieces you've curated, if you've been collecting for a mere five years, the pieces worth wowing a friend with. Each of them has  a legitimately interesting (not just to yourself) story you can share, a story about yourself, the artist/s and about the comic/character and it's place in greater comic history. The story of: why. You think the guys thirty years ago with stacks of John and Sal Buscema panel pages (stacks measured by the foot!) felt the same way? No. That's why they were $5 each or 5 for $20 ;) Those guys only had respect for EC and GA DC (cuz: prices ;) ) They were wrong. And I've got a stack of Mike Zeck to prove...each piece with a 'why' story I could share...

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vodou

vodou

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20 minutes ago, ESeffinga said:

By high school, I was really into drawing and art myself. I didn't appreciate everything I do now of course, but I did stop and look more carefully. But at 12, it was a junior high field trip (with lunch) in DC away from school with my friends, so hell yeah! Breeze through the exhibits and spend twice as long hanging out on the benches talking and laughing at stuff. :bigsmile:

My senior year hs field trip was to Boston's Gardner...the Friday before The Theft. Unforgettable (but only in hindsight, beginning the following Monday lol )

I breezed along with the rest and mostly chatted up the girls, which I think is a valid excuse for not paying more attention to them crusty Old Masters. At that age :)

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Bronty

Bronty

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Interesting post Michael and I agree.   When everything is cheap and roughly the same price you just don’t invest as much time in discerning which of any two (or thirty) examples is better.    Add a zero or two and now you start to really sweat the details about which one is better to have.

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vodou

vodou

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10 minutes ago, Bronty said:

...and now you start to really sweat the details about which one is better to have.

Yes but for the old-timers that have (or, er, "had") massive bulk-bought collections it's also a matter of better to keep.

I intentionally stopped selling "at market" about fifteen years ago, because I knew what what was going out ("at market") was being replaced ("at market") with lesser (quality) material in comparison. You can do that occasionally, to get something that's personally very important which the market may not value as much as yourself, that's one thing. We've all made odd deals that only made sense to us ourselves and left the counter-party laughing all the way to the bank (heh...but who really won?!) But if you're doing this regularly in the course of keeping your collection moving and fresh...you will only screw yourself. Out of quality. And later, money too, when you finally net out as a seller. Dumb. And dumber.

There is a lot of "junk" that I bought on the cheap, from those large stacks of "not cover, not splashes, not John Byrne" random pieces, twenty and more years ago that today...any one of them, would get at least five people here a'droolin'. Weak but quick example: who likes Craig Rousseau Impulse? in 2000/01 Craig was selling his "measured by the foot stack" for $5/page if you got more than just one or two. I got a lot more than that ;)

Just last night, a Gil Kane prelim went for nearly $1,000 on HA. It's nice ("now" lol ) These cover prelims used to be in the $5 stacks, all day long, but viewed as total garbage, people only (and barely at that) wanted the finished published 1970s covers. (But no, really just EC and GA DC lol ) Sadly, I was late to that 80s party and had to pay (Ed Hodder!) $50 for mine. Man, I got taken, right? Probably. But I knew it was quite nice (to my "gut", to my "eye") and no matter what the market said was worth more than $50 (which at the time was a nice, but not really nice, dinner/drinks for two out in Boston). Twenty years later...who  really won?! I sure don't miss those dinner and drinks with a girl I didn't end up with anyway (or even sleep with -grrr!!)

The most fun for me, in 2019, is doing the ol' walk (online, at a show, same difference) among the $5 inventory of today (which is more like $50-$250 per) and pulling the stars of tomorrow. The Big Fish...I don't chase, I let them come to me, bite, run around a bit, get tired and then I reel 'em in. Nab a few of those every few years, but the minnows (of today, bigger fish of tomorrow)...all day, every day :)

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Stefanomjr

Stefanomjr

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6 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

If that's the way you measure your success as a collector, by all means have at it.....

 

....I have my own collecting demons, I fight them every day. But I know their names. :)

 

 

Great post,  thanks for taking the time to share. 

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