Rank the ASM artists 2 2

[grapeape]

On 12/4/2019 at 11:26 PM, zhamlau said:

Artsoc is proud of these citizens!

Here's an awful page of Sal Spidey and its from SPSM so surely we can't count it. Currently $3400 and rising on C-Link.

[grapeape]

On 12/3/2019 at 1:09 PM, exitmusicblue said:

When push comes to shove, no Sal Buscema, eh?  Everybody's excommunicated from the cult.

 

 

 

 

Sal forgives. The cult.....does not.

[grapeape]

If John Byrne's on your list Merry Christmas. ASM 189. At C-Link currently $2200.

[jjonahjameson11]

Reading through all of the posts this far, it’s worth noting that folks who included Ross Andru on their list almost always felt the need to indicate they did so because he was the artist on the title at the time they collected/read ASM.  Almost sounded apologetic, as though he doesn’t belong on their respective lists?  

 

[Spider-Variant]

5 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Reading through all of the posts this far, it’s worth noting that folks who included Ross Andru on their list almost always felt the need to indicate they did so because he was the artist on the title at the time they collected/read ASM.  Almost sounded apologetic, as though he doesn’t belong on their respective lists?  

 

I love Ross Andru's art, love, love it.  But I recognize he may not be as sexy as say my favorite ASM artist, John Romita or someone like Todd McFarlane.  Thus probably the reason I put that out there.  It's more a case of excusing what may be my own bias, due to the love of the book while I was growing up.  Not that I guess I need to, because I can chose any criterion to Rank the ASM artists.  

[BCarter27]

Per @vodou, I left off

Quote

McNutsack Spidey

 

[grapeape]

37 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Reading through all of the posts this far, it’s worth noting that folks who included Ross Andru on their list almost always felt the need to indicate they did so because he was the artist on the title at the time they collected/read ASM.  Almost sounded apologetic, as though he doesn’t belong on their respective lists?  

 

No need to apologize for Ross Andru. The artist did a superb job. Should be on every top ten list.

i would like to hope that in the same way people refer to Romita as the man who introduced them to Spidey, the Andru crowd is remembering their time of discovery fondly and unapologetically.

 

[bluechip]

On 12/5/2019 at 6:11 AM, romitaman said:

HEY....A post i can really enjoy chatting about!! LOL 

i'm going from memory on everything i write so i may be off on a few issues i'm listing...LOL

1. John Romita Sr..."Most" art collectors under 60 and over say 48 will agree with me here..all my art buddies over 60 have Ditko first..and i get it! and i love this man personally like a father so he is always #1 for me!
2. Steve Ditko - without him, the  Amazing Spider-man comic might have turned into daredevil in sales if a different artist drew it!!!! Ditko was PERFECT FOR ASM!
3. Gil Kane...arguably the BEST at setting up pages.I didnt care for Giacoia's  inking KANE on asm 96-105 (thankfully Romita redrew a lot of heads in the drug issues)  Spidey always had an "EGG" head with no visible nose or ears protruding in mask when Giacoia inked Spidey in asm and MTU, But Romita inking Kane (asm 89-92, 96-98 some, 120-124) was WOWZA.....beyond AMAZING!!!

4. John Buscema....ASM 76-81,84-85 As good as Romita in absolute detail and perfection he put into every page he drew! Mooney's great inks kept the conformity also between JB and JR, AND JRJR)
5. Jim Mooney (him inking  ASM 65,67-88 minus 1 issue or so i think,  and even him inking POLLARD and Romita Jr on a LOT of books from 188-241 i think were dynamic! This later 70s and early 80s run was superb!
6. Kieth Pollard. He had a short run on ASM but i truly feel he is the most under rated ASM artist ever...His ASM pages from 188-203 or so are simply breath taking to behold in person..his ASM 200 pages (inked by mooney) are all masterpieces!
7. Ron Frenz...like Keith Pollard...his art was AMAZING...he adapted to the Steve Ditko Look early on in ASM in the 250s early 260s....and even the Romita look later. A truly great ASM artist..... and an even better person!
8. John Romita Jr (1ST ASM RUN ONLY (ASM 204-250) Mooney's / Milgroms inks were superb on 1st run pages. I never cared for his "newer" style from late 80s DD run & 90s ASM onward (he got Frank miller-ized I always say. LOL)
9. Todd McFarlane..... love his style.....Absolute amazing trend setter and really should be #3 on my list for what he has historically done for SPIDERMAN!  ...But since i don't collect his art i kept him here....LOL
10. Ross Andru...... I have to keep him in my top 10...as a kid he was the guy on ASM when i collected comics! I have to confess....I always hated his Spidey eyes... He always drew spider-man's eyes way too low on the mask, as Spidey's eyes where drawn where the cheeks would be under the mask and that always bothered me.....LOL...I always wondered as a kid, why spider-man INSIDE THE BOOK didn't look "cool" like the covers (that romita drew..LOL) I never knew back then that different artists would draw covers and interiors... but hey.......that was Ross Andru's personal style and i'm good with it now!

I was reading Romita's and Ditko's runs simultaneously through the magic of "Marvel Tales:" reprints so I came to regard them pretty much equally.   I hated Kane at first but agree that Romita's inks really combined for great effect.  And I hadn't thought about Giacoia but you're right.  He was fine inking Romita but when he inked Kane I didn't like the way Spidey turned out.  Though I'd heard that Kane loved Giacoia's inks.  Or maybe it was Jim Mooney who said that?   Anyway, Romita strove to learn from the artists he inked but if there was something they were doing he wasn't comfy with he'd fix it.   So Kane's eggheads got adjusted while retaining the funky and sometimes brilliant postures (if only somebody had edited up the excess "up-the-nose" angles...)    For no reason in particular I just reminded myself I'd heard unconfirmed reports that some of Mooney's early inks of Gwen made her look a little too tarty, so Stan (or John)  brought Giacoia in to make her more refined and ladylike until Jim got the hang of it.    It's amazing how combos of pencil and inks by two great artists can be greater than (or less than) the sum of their parts.    Romita started his run on ASM saying that he was trying to mimic Ditko.   If only we'd had a chance to see what Romita's inks would have been like on some unfinished pages by Ditko.

Edited December 7, 2019 by bluechip

[MyNameIsLegion]

5 hours ago, bluechip said:

I was reading Romita's and Ditko's runs simultaneously through the magic of "Marvel Tales:" reprints so I came to regard them pretty much equally.   I hated Kane at first but agree that Romita's inks really combined for great effect.  And I hadn't thought about Giacoia but you're right.  He was fine inking Romita but when he inked Kane I didn't like the way Spidey turned out.  Though I'd heard that Kane loved Giacoia's inks.  Or maybe it was Jim Mooney who said that?   Anyway, Romita strove to learn from the artists he inked but if there was something they were doing he wasn't comfy with he'd fix it.   So Kane's eggheads got adjusted while retaining the funky and sometimes brilliant postures (if only somebody had edited up the excess "up-the-nose" angles...)    For no reason in particular I just reminded myself I'd heard unconfirmed reports that some of Mooney's early inks of Gwen made her look a little too tarty, so Stan (or John)  brought Giacoia in to make her more refined and ladylike until Jim got the hang of it.    It's amazing how combos of pencil and inks by two great artists can be greater than (or less than) the sum of their parts.    Romita started his run on ASM saying that he was trying to mimic Ditko.   If only we'd had a chance to see what Romita's inks would have been like on some unfinished pages by Ditko.

Having up the nose Kane drawing no-nose Spidey in costume seems almost like a cruel joke....

This will be tantamount to blasphemy, but I'm curious how it would have all turned out if Don Heck had taken over Spidey instead of Romita and JR had drawn the Avengers instead.  I feel like Don with the right inker would have been a good fit to follow Ditko, at least for a reality based, urban book with lots of non-costumed characters like Spidey in NY as opposed to something trippy like Doctor Strange.

Edited December 7, 2019 by MYNAMEISLEGION

[jjonahjameson11]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 3:06 AM, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

Having up the nose Kane drawing no-nose Spidey in costume seems almost like a cruel joke....

This will be tantamount to blasphemy, but I'm curious how it would have all turned out if Don Heck had taken over Spidey instead of Romita and JR had drawn the Avengers instead.  I feel like Don with the right inker would have been a good fit to follow Ditko, at least for a reality based, urban book with lots of non-costumed characters like Spidey in NY as opposed to something trippy like Doctor Strange.

Well, we did get a glimpse of that for a few issues such as 57-59, although credits were a mixed bag (Romita breakdowns, Heck pencils, Esposito inks?).  Based on these issues, even with Romita's assistance, I do not think Heck would have been a worthy successor to follow Ditko on the title.  If I were Stan Lee, I would have kept Heck as far away from ASM as possible!

[bluechip]

5 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Well, we did get a glimpse of that for a few issues such as 57-59, although credits were a mixed bag (Romita breakdowns, Heck pencils, Esposito inks?).  Based on these issues, even with Romita's assistance, I do not think Heck would have been a worthy successor to follow Ditko on the title.  If I were Stan Lee, I would have kept Heck as far away from ASM as possible!

I like Don Heck's work on other titles, like the early Tales of Suspense, Avengers, and horror stories, etc.   But his work on ASM doesn't feel like it gels as well with Romita's the same way that Mooney's did.    

[bluechip]

On 12/6/2019 at 6:29 PM, bluechip said:

I was reading Romita's and Ditko's runs simultaneously through the magic of "Marvel Tales:" reprints so I came to regard them pretty much equally.   I hated Kane at first but agree that Romita's inks really combined for great effect.  And I hadn't thought about Giacoia but you're right.  He was fine inking Romita but when he inked Kane I didn't like the way Spidey turned out.  Though I'd heard that Kane loved Giacoia's inks.  Or maybe it was Jim Mooney who said that?   Anyway, Romita strove to learn from the artists he inked but if there was something they were doing he wasn't comfy with he'd fix it.   So Kane's eggheads got adjusted while retaining the funky and sometimes brilliant postures (if only somebody had edited up the excess "up-the-nose" angles...)    For no reason in particular I just reminded myself I'd heard unconfirmed reports that some of Mooney's early inks of Gwen made her look a little too tarty, so Stan (or John)  brought Giacoia in to make her more refined and ladylike until Jim got the hang of it.    It's amazing how combos of pencil and inks by two great artists can be greater than (or less than) the sum of their parts.    Romita started his run on ASM saying that he was trying to mimic Ditko.   If only we'd had a chance to see what Romita's inks would have been like on some unfinished pages by Ditko.

Here's an example of how Romita Sr. guided a penciller.   Like Romita, Mooney came to ASM with experience drawing gorgeous women, but Romita's experience was on Romance titles, and he specialized in classy ladies.   Mooney had drawn wholesome girls, too (Supergirl, for one) he had also done soft core porny things like "Pussycat," and when he was first put on inking Gwen (Spectacular Spider-man 1), she bore a little too much resemblance to that often-bare heroine.  So Romita (and maybe Lee) stepped in to have Giacoia ink some of the more pivotal moments with Gwen (Spectacular Spider-man 2), while Romita gently prodded Mooney with some suggestions, which Mooney processed brilliantly by the time he got to the heartfelt moment in panel ASM 68.

[jjonahjameson11]

Did MJ ever have short hair, as noted in John’s Illo to Jim?

 

[Get Marwood & I]

3 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Did MJ ever have short hair, as noted in John’s Illo to Jim?

 

[bluechip]

Following on this theme a bit, when you set out to have an artist "correct" another artist, make sure you've got the right one for the job.   Here's what happened when either Romita or Lee assigned Tony Mortellaro to "fix" Mooney's presumably too sexy Gwen.

 

[bluechip]

Just now, bluechip said:

Following on this theme a bit, when you set out to have an artist "correct" another artist, make sure you've got the right one for the job.   Here's what happened when either Romita or Lee assigned Tony Mortellaro to "fix" Mooney's presumably too sexy Gwen.

 

OH, well, it would be an interesting contrast if the second picture was not microscopic.   I haven't the time to fix it.

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, bluechip said:

Following on this theme a bit, when you set out to have an artist "correct" another artist, make sure you've got the right one for the job.   Here's what happened when either Romita or Lee assigned Tony Mortellaro to "fix" Mooney's presumably too sexy Gwen.

 

[bluechip]

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Thank you!   And.... "Aaaaack!"   

She went from looking too much like an underage porn star to looking too much like an over the hill socialite who's had "work" done.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

8 minutes ago, bluechip said:

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Thank you!   And.... "Aaaaack!"   

She went from looking too much like an underage porn star to looking too much like an over the hill socialite who's had "work" done

And for a second I thought her speech bubble said '...dark curly hairs' 

[jjonahjameson11]

6 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Thanks!  Which issue is this from?