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How "seriously" is OA taken by the mainstream art world?
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91 posts in this topic

18 minutes ago, Varanis said:

I'm definitely not saying there isn't speculation. Of course any hobby like this will have rampant speculation. I'm moreso saying that in my limited experience, it seems like fine art has more and bigger pockets tuned in and seems a lot more inaccessible than comic art. I believe that's what @NewCollector101's fear was - the entrance of the right players that would make comic art inaccessible to the middle / upper middle class. Right now I feel like comic art is relatively accessible for a good number of people - collectors, speculators, and fans alike. In my assessment, the individual who spent $120,000 on the banana did so to be part of an experience and not to purchase an appreciable asset. That sort of experience for that kind of money strikes me as a defining symptom of inaccessibility. I'm not sure there's anything comparable in the comic art world. My experience is pretty limited in both markets, so I'm probably off base, but your response did make me realize I articulated fairly poorly the thought I was trying to convey originally.

I agree, and my guess is that prices just aren't high enough for the real big-money speculators to consider it worth their time.

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The topic is well rehearsed but I still find it quite interesting, and worth updating every now and then.  I am not as pessimistic about the chances that in the future there may be some recognition.  Last year I had a family friend for dinner.  She used to work at Christies London.  I showed her my collection and she was quite interested.  She was able to discern quality pieces and could "get" the content of my covers and splashes.  Obviously the relevance of my Dark Phoenix interior panel page was totally lost on her.

I think one interesting question to take this  topic further is: which pieces are the most likely to get some interest from the fine arts folks.  One would need to get away from the context, and judge a piece solely based on its intrinsic aesthetic qualitities.  Ranking our own OA this way might be an interesting exercise: one may not get the same ranking as a USD value ranking, but still could yield some interesting results.  I think the piece from my collection that could get the highest interest would be this one:

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=460352

Care to do the same with your collection?

 

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13 minutes ago, Carlo M said:

I think one interesting question to take this  topic further is: which pieces are the most likely to get some interest from the fine arts folks.  One would need to get away from the context, and judge a piece solely based on its intrinsic aesthetic qualitities.

 

I think Kirby and Frazetta will be there before we know it. Disney has already done some promotion around Kirby as the artistic mastermind behind Marvel. That will likely amp up with The Eternals movie. 

In terms of individual pieces I own that cross into fine art territory, I don't think it gets much better than this:

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1589583

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3 minutes ago, Varanis said:

I think Kirby and Frazetta will be there before we know it. Disney has already done some promotion around Kirby as the artistic mastermind behind Marvel. That will likely amp up with The Eternals movie. 

In terms of individual pieces I own that cross into fine art territory, I don't think it gets much better than this:

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1589583

That is EXACTLY what I meant! Perfect example

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I think original comic art has a ceiling because there is so much out there.

An individual artist can control their output.

The original comic art market is derived from countless sources of art, as opposed 

to the original artist, with some exceptions.

The character-driven aspect also informs the prospect for

sky-high pricing.

It is quite a niche-y segment which prefers the knowledgeable, nostalgic collector, 

David

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8 hours ago, Varanis said:

Great point. It would make sense if there is a lot more fine art I'm unaware of that is accessible. My gut still tells me there are some big differences in the amount of wealth and type of wealth involved in the two markets, but a gut feeling is nothing to go on.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Bronty said:

Yes.    I always like to switch POVs when trying to understand someone else's viewpoint.

Let's flip the --script on the question a little:

--How seriously does the OA community take Fine Art?

It's totally different.  Even if people in the OA community took Fine Art seriously (which I think quite a few do, judging from the various Lichtenstein threads), they would have no discernible impact on Fine Art unless there are some centi-millionaires and billionaires in the OA community that I'm not aware of.  In contrast, if some Fine Art players suddenly took an interest in the OA market, it would be completely and irrevocably changed.  

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41 minutes ago, tth2 said:

It's totally different.  Even if people in the OA community took Fine Art seriously (which I think quite a few do, judging from the various Lichtenstein threads), they would have no discernible impact on Fine Art unless there are some centi-millionaires and billionaires in the OA community that I'm not aware of.  In contrast, if some Fine Art players suddenly took an interest in the OA market, it would be completely and irrevocably changed.  

Fine art isn’t necessarily expensive art. I expect that many people here have more traditional works in their home, even if they are little better than prints or flea market finds. So sure, we take it seriously. We just don’t buy enough generally to dent it.

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35 minutes ago, tth2 said:

if some* Fine Art players suddenly took an interest in the OA market

...or stamps or coins or sports cards or currency or Roy Rogers saddles or cast metal soldiers or...

But they (mostly) don't. And when they do it's only to chase the handful of "gimme" top trophies - T209 Honus, Inverse Jenny, 1,000 Watermelon note...the rarest of the rare; things that go nicely on the bookshelf next to all the 19th signed first editions and the blue period Picasso oil.

Even if those guys come in, maybe already are (so-called "some" but mostly not) we all know top trophy hunting won't have any noticeable effect on what people here (have already run up to near-unaffordable and) are collecting: obscure/forgotten Golden Age art, Keown Hulk, McFarlane Spidey, early Buck Rogers strips, game cart box art, Heck/Ayers/Perlin/eitherBuscema et al. IMO ;)

 

*some = billionaires, right? (not run of the mill multi-millionaires that have more debt than liquidity most of the time :) )

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2 hours ago, tth2 said:

It's totally different.  Even if people in the OA community took Fine Art seriously (which I think quite a few do, judging from the various Lichtenstein threads), they would have no discernible impact on Fine Art unless there are some centi-millionaires and billionaires in the OA community that I'm not aware of.  In contrast, if some Fine Art players suddenly took an interest in the OA market, it would be completely and irrevocably changed.  

Yes, but that's not the point.   The point is human nature being what it is, neither side gives a fock about the other's POV... so asking ourselves what would happen if the other side cared is just a mental 'wank' at the end of the day.

Edited by Bronty
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4 hours ago, zhamlau said:

none of us will ever be able to buy another piece we would actually wanted.

Which begs the question: who would they sell to?

I think this occurring is a really low risk proposition.

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On 12/8/2019 at 1:37 PM, Varanis said:

I think Kirby and Frazetta will be there before we know it. Disney has already done some promotion around Kirby as the artistic mastermind behind Marvel. That will likely amp up with The Eternals movie. 

In terms of individual pieces I own that cross into fine art territory, I don't think it gets much better than this:

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1589583

I have zero cred in the fine art community but I’d hang Tradd next to Salvador Dali and Picasso at Le Museum de GrapeApe.

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Keep out the riff raff, I say!

I used to collect (and still do to an extent) shin hanga woodblock prints.  An early 20th century, next-gen iteration of the commercial mass art form that was ukiyo-e, which became regarded as fine art by collectors over time.

Never did I imagine shin hanga would prove positively affordable next to big name OA.  What the heck !!

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13 hours ago, Bronty said:

Yes, but that's not the point.   The point is human nature being what it is, neither side gives a fock about the other's POV... so asking ourselves what would happen if the other side cared is just a mental 'wank' at the end of the day.

You hang out in a community in which people celebrate men in tights who fly and have superpowers, or in your case musclebound men with a nice sheen of oil all over them, and endlessly debate "Who is stronger?"

Mental wanking is the raison d'etre of this community!   

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1 hour ago, tth2 said:

You hang out in a community in which people celebrate men in tights who fly and have superpowers, or in your case musclebound men with a nice sheen of oil all over them, and endlessly debate "Who is stronger?"

Mental wanking is the raison d'etre of this community!   

On this thread Mental wanking?

On the HA 2020 thread pulling a train and Deliverance references?... in response to the ASM Kingpin and gang Cover all standing over a fallen Spidey....and Green Goblin splash where Gobby helps Spidey touch his toes?

Banjos?

Purty mouths?

BRING OUT THE GIMP?
 

What has happened to our civilized community?

 

 

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1 hour ago, tth2 said:

You hang out in a community in which people celebrate men in tights who fly and have superpowers, or in your case musclebound men with a nice sheen of oil all over them, and endlessly debate "Who is stronger?"

Mental wanking is the raison d'etre of this community!   

I’ll leave you to your evenings entertainment then 

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