Optimistic Pricing 1 1

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

That's true, the European convention for the price of a large soda would be 1,99 not 1.99.

Maybe, but I can also tell you that the art of sequential storytelling in that 8,000 example I just posted is on par with Will Eisner. With that in mind, aside from not being 'vintage' and deceased....that would be a comparable right there. Not to beat a dead horse but it's no knocked out for a paycheck Infantino Arak. I'll take one of mine for 27 of yours

Curiously, different European countries use slightly different conventions, which makes things worse. I went looking on the internet about that one.

There wouldn't be sequential story telling like there is now without Will Eisner. There is a lot of his work available because he kept most of it when he was alive, and I think that has held down prices, but I don't give a knockoff the same "intrinsic worth" as the original, and that's assuming it is an equivalent knockoff. Prices being what they are, there really is no such thing as "intrinsic worth", but I think you get my point.

I really don't want either of those pieces in my collection. But, given the choice as between the two, I'd add a third choice and keep the money. And if the choice was Arak plus money or that other page and no money, I'll take Arak in a heartbeat. 

[Mycroft]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

Could you give me a range about how optimistic his prices seem for the book, given what actually sells? 

What about work from different book series? As you must know, that can have a major impact on pricing.

Still and all, it's a fascinating look at the European market--very different than ours, I see.

I can't. Some pages are sold ... so ... not that optimistic I guess. And I'm far from an expert of the european OA market.

It's a Blueberry page and Blueberry is very popular among the older generations, those is their 40s, 50s, 60s.

And remember : if want to buy a published Blueberry page, there is something like ... 52 albums so 2.500 pages ... some do not feature Blueberry, and a lot are in black hole collections.

I want to buy a Spider-Man page ... how many ? 1.000 pages a year ? 

Of course, pages from another series won't command the same price.

[Rick2you2]

4 hours ago, Grant Turner said:

What about this one?  I love John Byrne as much as the next guy, and I like the Avengers, but this seems to me about $5k too optimistic!

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Byrne-Original-Art-AVENGERS-Signed-Cap-Iron-Man-Loki-and-MORE/174168591972?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225079%26meid%3Dd08eb43b5ffe441db84c11255154a3d2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D174168591972%26itm%3D174168591972%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A8c3d382d-4068-11ea-a047-74dbd1800c10|parentrq%3Ae31585b216f0ad3058436ea7fffbabcc|iid%3A1

I just wanted to bump this one forward so that it doesn't get lost in the discussion.

[vodou]

3 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I don't give a knockoff the same "intrinsic worth" as the original

Now we're calling the European artist a knockoff Eisner? Hooboy, you really hate this guy! I'm gonna leave you to it Rick...stew away

Meanwhile, I love the art and am thinking about how serious I am about dropping 9,000 USD on it. If you don't see it, I really can't explain it to you.

[ESeffinga]

 

[Rick2you2]

10 hours ago, vodou said:

Now we're calling the European artist a knockoff Eisner? Hooboy, you really hate this guy! I'm gonna leave you to it Rick...stew away

Meanwhile, I love the art and am thinking about how serious I am about dropping 9,000 USD on it. If you don't see it, I really can't explain it to you.

No, I was focusing on your comment that: 

15 hours ago, vodou said:

Maybe, but I can also tell you that the art of sequential storytelling in that 8,000 example I just posted is on par with Will Eisner.

I don't hate the artist. I don't care one way or the other about the artist, or the book, in which he wrote. I simply could not understand how the prices could run from $9,000 to $22,000. Now I know. 

If people want to pay that sort of money for the page, then for purposes of this thread, that's fine. 

As for me, I seriously doubt I would spend that sort of money on any comic art. That's too much money to casually spend on something my heirs will inherit. 

[NicoV]

16 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

Could you give me a range about how optimistic his prices seem for the book, given what actually sells? 

What about work from different book series? As you must know, that can have a major impact on pricing.

Still and all, it's a fascinating look at the European market--very different than ours, I see.

I would compare Blain with Sean Murphy. Both are (from my point of view) great artists, with a unique and recognizable style. Both created really interesting "non mainstream" (sorry but I can't always put English words on what I would really mean) series, and both saw their prices increase at each new series.

The only difference is that Blain produces for a longer time and his rep (Jean-Baptiste Barbier) did a really great job by selling only a few pages of Blain series a year (and not every year), creating rarity and thus high prices. Isaac le pirate was a nice series, but the real game changer was Quai d'Orsay. Definitely one of the best European comics I read these last 10 years, if not THE best. When the first pages sold at gallery Barbier, they were priced 4k€ (except the ones with Darth Vader at 5k). A few years later I sold mine 16k€ to someone who really wanted it and asked me twice a year. I think a "standard" page from Quai d'Orsay would sell at least at 8-10k€ nowadays (see a few high prices here: https://comicarttracker.com/en/christophe-blain-original-art-for-sale).

Back to Blain / Sean Murphy: they now both work on a "mainstream" / well-known series, resp. Blueberry and Batman. Whatever the intrinsic quality of artworks (and I'm really not fond of both of these works), mechanically prices increase heavily. And demand is still strong: 80k and 30k Blueberry covers already sold, as well as 25 other pages - including a few 20-25k€ pages - for a total of nearly 500k€ ... I'm not saying that these prices are fair or not. With 80k€ you can have a strong piece of comic art History. But at these prices pages sell "quite easily". That's a fact.

I don't have any artwork from Blain anymore. And at these prices I probably will never have some again. But in my opinion he's definitely an artist worth following.

Edited January 27, 2020 by NicoV

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, NicoV said:

I would compare Blain with Sean Murphy. Both are (from my point of view) great artists, with a unique and recognizable style. Both created really interesting "non mainstream" (sorry but I can't always put English words on what I would really mean) series, and both saw their prices increase at each new series.

The only difference is that Blain produces for a longer time and his rep (Jean-Baptiste Barbier) did a really great job by selling only a few pages of Blain series a year (and not every year), creating rarity and thus high prices. Isaac le pirate was a nice series, but the real game changer was Quai d'Orsay. Definitely one of the best European comics I read these last 10 years, if not THE best. When the first pages sold at gallery Barbier, they were priced 4k€ (except the ones with Darth Vader at 5k). A few years later I sold mine 16k€ to someone who really wanted it and asked me twice a year. I think a "standard" page from Quai d'Orsay would sell at least at 8-10k€ nowadays (see a few high prices here: https://comicarttracker.com/en/christophe-blain-original-art-for-sale).

Back to Blain / Sean Murphy: they now both work on a "mainstream" / well-known series, resp. Blueberry and Batman. Whatever the intrinsic quality of artworks (and I'm really not fond of both of these works), mechanically prices increase heavily. And demand is still strong: 80k and 30k Blueberry covers already sold, as well as 25 other pages - including a few 20-25k€ pages - for a total of nearly 500k€ ... I'm not saying that these prices are fair or not. With 80k€ you can have a strong piece of comic art History. But at these prices pages sell "quite easily". That's a fact.

I don't have any artwork from Blain anymore. And at these prices I probably will never have some again. But in my opinion he's definitely an artist worth following.

Thanks. Clearly, the European art market is very different than here.

"Back to Blain / Sean Murphy: they now both work on a "mainstream" / well-known series, resp. Blueberry and Batman. Whatever the intrinsic quality of artworks (and I'm really not fond of both of these works)"

That definitely makes me feel like less of an outlier.

[grapeape]

On 1/23/2020 at 6:56 PM, exitmusicblue said:

 

Perfect

[Rick2you2]

I certainly don't claim to have the encyclopedia-level knowledge of a fair number of you, but I do know the price range of Phantom Stranger art, in general, and Aparo pages, in particular. $3,500 from Archangels is over-optimistic to say the least. Two K is about the limit for panel pages (but this is a good one).

Edited February 22, 2020 by Rick2you2

[cloud cloddie]

Interesting strategy. Most of this seller’s items have been sitting the last year or two unsold. 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/amazingcomicart/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Now most everything’s been relisted at twice the price.

[artdealer]

On 2/21/2020 at 7:13 PM, Rick2you2 said:

I certainly don't claim to have the encyclopedia-level knowledge of a fair number of you, but I do know the price range of Phantom Stranger art, in general, and Aparo pages, in particular. $3,500 from Archangels is over-optimistic to say the least. Two K is about the limit for panel pages (but this is a good one).

Kinda like this page, which has been on eBay for 2 years from the same seller. 
Started at $3500, now at $5500.

 

[Shemp]

On 3/1/2020 at 2:22 PM, artdealer said:

Kinda like this page, which has been on eBay for 2 years from the same seller. 
Started at $3500, now at $5500.

 

It's the old adage...if your piece doesn't sell, raise the price.

Rob is a nice guy but he lives in Optimistic land.

[Rick2you2]

On a related note, there is an agent offering a pencil cover I like for more than I think it is worth. The same price is posted on similar covers by the same artist, but the ones sold are about a third less or lower. It is also priced at almost 6 times his panel pages. I am not anxious to offer a third less than asked, since I think it would be rejected. I also have no intention of insulting the artist or denigrating the piece. Anyone with brilliant ideas how to get that price closer to reality? And no, it is not the Donnelly’s.

[dichotomy]

2 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

On a related note, there is an agent offering a pencil cover I like for more than I think it is worth. The same price is posted on similar covers by the same artist, but the ones sold are about a third less or lower. It is also priced at almost 6 times his panel pages. I am not anxious to offer a third less than asked, since I think it would be rejected. I also have no intention of insulting the artist or denigrating the piece. Anyone with brilliant ideas how to get that price closer to reality? And no, it is not the Donnelly’s.

I once wrote to a dealer, and everything is true, saying

“I would like X piece. <insert gush here> Is there any chance you would accept $Y? I had a similar (cover from the same series/artist) piece that I recently offered to someone who inquired at $Y. It was rejected, but out of respect I’ll buy X piece from you at the same price, if that is acceptable.” 
 

We were able to work a deal.